at least that's how i choose to interpret it, maybe something horrible happened to annie after the hospital scene
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Monday, 28 August 2017 18:00 (seven years ago) link
I'm just fixated on Cooper being cheated out of true love & happiness & contentment. so The Return is "Cooper's odyssey back to Twin Peaks" = to me that means returning to and reclaiming the love he found at the end of Season 2.
― flappy bird, Monday, 28 August 2017 18:01 (seven years ago) link
Annie was a plot device and post-series she got on with her life
― streeps of range (wins), Monday, 28 August 2017 18:01 (seven years ago) link
i like the implication that annie was so pure of heart that she made it out of the lodge so unscathed that we never hear about it again― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Monday, August 28, 2017 2:00 PM (fifty-six seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalinkat least that's how i choose to interpret it, maybe something horrible happened to annie after the hospital scene― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Monday, August 28, 2017 2:00 PM (thirty-three seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Monday, August 28, 2017 2:00 PM (fifty-six seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Monday, August 28, 2017 2:00 PM (thirty-three seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Cooper sacrificed his soul to BOB to save Annie. I assume that means she escaped relatively unscathed.
― flappy bird, Monday, 28 August 2017 18:02 (seven years ago) link
annie is an associate manager of logistics at home depot's santa fe office now, she's fine
― Karl Malone, Monday, 28 August 2017 18:03 (seven years ago) link
(I like annie btw, glassy-eyed pixie dream girl that she is)
― streeps of range (wins), Monday, 28 August 2017 18:03 (seven years ago) link
Annie's roles in the finale & FWWM are lynch making the best of a bad situation. Everyone above who's said variations on this otm.
I'm just fixated on Cooper being cheated out of true love & happiness & contentment
You're watching a different show than I am. What I love about Cooper is more in line with Elvis Telecom's post from way up thread--he's more of a cipher, even pre-Lodge something more than human, an interruption of the subconscious into conventional notions of methodical investigation. This facade cracks at key moments--"It had only happened once before"--but making him a conventional romantic lead weakens the character, as Frost and Lynch clearly realize from how they've revised the character this time around.
― sciatica, Monday, 28 August 2017 18:13 (seven years ago) link
― Karl Malone, Monday, August 28, 2017 11:03 AM (fourteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
lmao
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Monday, 28 August 2017 18:18 (seven years ago) link
occasionally she has strange dreams though
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Monday, 28 August 2017 18:19 (seven years ago) link
Re Cooper "settling down" in TP-- the earliest instance of this desire is in the season 1 ep where he makes a note to Diane to look into TP real estate, which he expects to get at "a reasonable price." I always found something a little sinister in how MacLachlan deslivers that line--almost the reverse of the potential Ghostwood investors, like he's looking forward to capitalizing on the town's tragedy. Having that rough edge sanded off the character later on is one of the many small ways S2 went wrong.
― sciatica, Monday, 28 August 2017 18:19 (seven years ago) link
but if he hated Annie he certainly didn't have to use her in FWWM - I mean the whole movie takes place before she shows up, you wouldn't expect her to be in it in the first place! Even if he wants that "message from the future" thing it could've been Chet Desmond or the Giant or Teresa Banks or whoever
― Screamin' Jay Gould (The Yellow Kid), Monday, 28 August 2017 18:20 (seven years ago) link
.... eh? xp
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Monday, 28 August 2017 18:20 (seven years ago) link
weird characterizations of cooper itt
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Monday, 28 August 2017 18:21 (seven years ago) link
@sciatica - im a sucker for traumatized people finding happiness & love in a new life in a new place. Cooper being cheated out of that hit me hard. good point about Cooper being a sort of cipher for the entire series - but i still saw him as a real person and wanted him to be happy.
― flappy bird, Monday, 28 August 2017 18:21 (seven years ago) link
I feel like Janey-E and Sonny Jim are totally the family Cooper would have if he had a family. Definitely leaving open the possibility that the final scene is him turning up back at the red door.
In re the long-delayed Coop return, it's one of those things that will add to the Lynch legend. "The idiosyncratic filmmaker famously waited until the 16th hour of an 18-hour film to introduce the hero."
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Monday, 28 August 2017 18:22 (seven years ago) link
What I love about Cooper is more in line with Elvis Telecom's post from way up thread--he's more of a cipher, even pre-Lodge something more than human, an interruption of the subconscious into conventional notions of methodical investigation. This facade cracks at key moments--"It had only happened once before"--but making him a conventional romantic lead weakens the character, as Frost and Lynch clearly realize from how they've revised the character this time around.
Come on, though. He's the show's protagonist. You're not vested in his happiness and his well being, or curious about how he derives fulfillment? And when the inciting incident of the whole new series is this tremendous sacrifice that he's made, it makes sense to step back and remember why he made that sacrifice.
Lotta people in this thread seem oddly dismissive of one of the new series' biggest plot lines. Frost and Lynch could have dropped Cooper literally anywhere—on a mountain, in a prison, a different country, a gang, anything—but instead they placed him with a family we spent a ton of time with. That was for a reason.
― Evan R, Monday, 28 August 2017 18:23 (seven years ago) link
obviously he won't be truly happy until he marries Albert
― Οὖτις, Monday, 28 August 2017 18:23 (seven years ago) link
xp
Re Cooper "settling down" in TP-- the earliest instance of this desire is in the season 1 ep where he makes a note to Diane to look into TP real estate, which he expects to get at "a reasonable price." I always found something a little sinister in how MacLachlan deslivers that line--almost the reverse of the potential Ghostwood investors, like he's looking forward to capitalizing on the town's tragedy. Having that rough edge sanded off the character later on is one of the many small ways S2 went wrong.― sciatica, Monday, August 28, 2017 2:19 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― sciatica, Monday, August 28, 2017 2:19 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
oh whoa, I didn't get that sense at all. I thought that message to Diane about buying property in Twin Peaks was completely sincere. Cooper was traumatized by Caroline's death and was eager to start a new life. I took that all at face value.
― flappy bird, Monday, 28 August 2017 18:24 (seven years ago) link
Cooper references several things as "reasonably priced" in the original series iirc (the Great Northern, the pie at the RR?)
― Οὖτις, Monday, 28 August 2017 18:25 (seven years ago) link
same xp
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Monday, 28 August 2017 18:25 (seven years ago) link
Definitely leaving open the possibility that the final scene is him turning up back at the red door.
Yeah it's unlikely we'll get an ending this clean/happy, but if the show ends and the whole arc of Cooper's 25-year-in-the-making return is that he cracked a case and gives Gordon a thumbs up, it's gonna feel empty as hell
― Evan R, Monday, 28 August 2017 18:25 (seven years ago) link
I kind can't envision any ending where Cooper gets out of this series alive tbh
― Οὖτις, Monday, 28 August 2017 18:27 (seven years ago) link
I predict it won't be the red door thing or the case crack thumbs up thing, that is my prediction
― streeps of range (wins), Monday, 28 August 2017 18:28 (seven years ago) link
Shakey those things all have sinister implications, the pie especially.
― sciatica, Monday, 28 August 2017 18:29 (seven years ago) link
People as into their careers as Cooper is into his tend to be a bit self-absorbed. I interpret Cooper as trying to counter this tendency, not always successfully. Like how excited he is for his breakfast blinds him to how eager Harry and Lucy are to hear the result of his dream about who killled Laura Palmer. That's where I was going with that, just a blind spot, not evil.
― sciatica, Monday, 28 August 2017 18:35 (seven years ago) link
Evan I'm not invested in those things, no, except as peripheral aspects of his character. He gets fulfillment from his job. He is the FBI.
These have been fun and genial threads and if I'm being a bit of a dick I'm sorry, obviously it's fine for people to watch the show for different reasons. I do think part of the decision to put him in Vegas is just how unlikely it was, for both character and setting, not something inherent in the character they're trying to bring out.
― sciatica, Monday, 28 August 2017 18:40 (seven years ago) link
lol ok
― Οὖτις, Monday, 28 August 2017 18:44 (seven years ago) link
that's such a cold reading of Cooper. I sort of get it, but it's really sad.
― flappy bird, Monday, 28 August 2017 18:49 (seven years ago) link
yeah doesn't ring true to me either
― Οὖτις, Monday, 28 August 2017 18:51 (seven years ago) link
One of his near-death wishes was to bang a woman he liked; his truest connection was with a dreamy wayward schoolgirl (actually his truest connection was with Laura but she was dead). He's a complex character, he has his cipher aspect but if that was all there was to him his fall at the end of s2 wouldn't matter
― streeps of range (wins), Monday, 28 August 2017 18:53 (seven years ago) link
im a sucker for traumatized people finding happiness & love in a new life in a new place. Cooper being cheated out of that hit me hard. good point about Cooper being a sort of cipher for the entire series - but i still saw him as a real person and wanted him to be happy.
― flappy bird, Monday, August 28, 2017 6:21 PM (thirty minutes ago)
otm. id have no problem if he went back to them. i think its unlikely though.
― Well bissogled trotters (Michael B), Monday, 28 August 2017 18:54 (seven years ago) link
just as long as he moves like a cobra one more time I'm all good with whatever happens to Coop
― Max-Headroom-drops-a-deuce-while-shredding (Sparkle Motion), Monday, 28 August 2017 18:56 (seven years ago) link
He's very straightforward, but never really comes off as rude or demanding. An aside like "a good price" just seems like an expectation.
In this week's episode, after he snaps back into things, he says something like "Bushnell, get my clothes, they're in the cabinet behind you"
that's not him being bossy or rude, even though it's not "could you please..." it's the well-tuned engine of an FBI man who knows what details are important and which are unimportant
― mh, Monday, 28 August 2017 18:58 (seven years ago) link
like, if Diane sees Twin Peaks real estate at what seems an inflated price, then she's looking wrong
One of his near-death wishes was to bang a woman he liked
do you mean Annie? i don't think that was purely lustful at all, that was true love
― flappy bird, Monday, 28 August 2017 18:58 (seven years ago) link
one of my favorite little moments was when coop exited the hospital and executed two EXACTLY PERFECT 90 degree turns at top speed. did anyone else see that? they weren't magical or anything, they were just exactly the kind of turns special agent dale cooper would make.
― Karl Malone, Monday, 28 August 2017 19:00 (seven years ago) link
haha yes
and Janey said he couldn't drive!
― mh, Monday, 28 August 2017 19:02 (seven years ago) link
I've got an outsider theory that Dougie is Lynch's own vision of some type of fourth bardo ascended state TM shaman - solving crimes, removing people's pain, kicking it at the slots, defending himself - all with a minimum of words, effort, or even conventional reasoning. I love that it's indistinguishable from dementia. I'm willing to accept that might be proved wrong.
If it helps to put a more positive spin on things I agree with this Elvis Telecom post from upthread, I think this characterization of Dougie was always implicit in Cooper and for me that's what he is, a sort of bureaucratic bodhisattva, for whom desire is fraught and messy needs to be sublimated. I get the romantic tragedy angle but I don't have any faith given his temperament and history that if Coop does turn up at that red door things will be settled and happy.
― sciatica, Monday, 28 August 2017 19:04 (seven years ago) link
/One of his near-death wishes was to bang a woman he liked/do you mean Annie? i don't think that was purely lustful at all, that was true love
I would very much like to make love to a beautiful woman who I had genuine affection for.
― streeps of range (wins), Monday, 28 August 2017 19:05 (seven years ago) link
lol in seclusion that line sounds like it came from an unrealized Achewood character
― mh, Monday, 28 August 2017 19:06 (seven years ago) link
what's that, Coop? you want to hang with the dirtiest doggs in town? *takes Coop to strip club*
― mh, Monday, 28 August 2017 19:07 (seven years ago) link
No apology necessary; I'm loving this convo and am fascinated by your viewpoint, which despite how alien it seems to me you've made a strong case for. This has been much more fun to dissect than, like, numbers or the meaning of names or w/e
― Evan R, Monday, 28 August 2017 19:09 (seven years ago) link
― streeps of range (wins), Monday, August 28, 2017 3:05 PM (five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Obviously. "bang" just seems a little flippant
― flappy bird, Monday, 28 August 2017 19:12 (seven years ago) link
That's because it was, you get the picture tho
― streeps of range (wins), Monday, 28 August 2017 19:15 (seven years ago) link
The classic "does Coop fuck?" debate is the same regardless of the crassness of the terms used
― mh, Monday, 28 August 2017 19:23 (seven years ago) link
This guy fucks
― Οὖτις, Monday, 28 August 2017 19:30 (seven years ago) link
*arms flap*
― mh, Monday, 28 August 2017 19:31 (seven years ago) link
*thread locks*
― Max-Headroom-drops-a-deuce-while-shredding (Sparkle Motion), Monday, 28 August 2017 19:37 (seven years ago) link
https://www.facebook.com/CriterionCollection/photos/a.267108010564.311536.24856820564/10159292851745565/?type=3&theater
― mh, Monday, 28 August 2017 19:40 (seven years ago) link