I'm not so sure. I mean, we're really inquisitive about Dougie's past and origins, but maybe we're just scrutinizing things more than Janey did. It's weird to me, but it's interesting how many people I've met where their knowledge of people close to them, even romantic partners, is really indistinct. As if anything before they met is just kind of this shorthand of "oh, I was working in another city and moved here, and my family's all gone" and they're not really into reminiscing.
― mh, Tuesday, 29 August 2017 18:13 (six years ago) link
Mad Men, anyone
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 29 August 2017 18:22 (six years ago) link
yeah but the point is that knowing what we know of janey-e's character, why is she attached to dougie? it seems likely to me that she was caring for him as if he had become incapacitated in some way, not that she met him and fell in love with him the way he was.xp
― wmlynch, Tuesday, 29 August 2017 18:23 (six years ago) link
yeah there was the car accident
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 29 August 2017 18:27 (six years ago) link
l o s t h i g h w a y
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 29 August 2017 18:28 (six years ago) link
ok i'll bite why do people think janey-e is diane? because i have no idea where that's coming from
― na (NA), Tuesday, 29 August 2017 18:28 (six years ago) link
Good posts wmlynch.
As much as I love Janey-E, we shouldn't oversee the fact that she's incredibly naive (for lack of a better word), forgiving "Dougie" for everything, going "Oh Dougie, you silly" on some really messed up stuff. She's deliberately two dimensional, basically (though certainly not the only one in this show)
― Le Bateau Ivre, Tuesday, 29 August 2017 18:29 (six years ago) link
Diane claiming that Janey-E is her sister, Naomi Watts playing a double/doppelganger character in Mulholland Drive named Diane, Janey-E's inquisitive/knowing look when Coop is vaguely explaining his situation when they're driving to the casino. xp
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 29 August 2017 18:30 (six years ago) link
because ppl like stupid rabbit-hole theories
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 29 August 2017 18:32 (six years ago) link
Naomi Watts playing a double/doppelganger character in Mulholland Drive named Diane
this is def extra-textual/irrelevant
http://sensesofcinema.com/assets/uploads/2014/06/BlueBox.jpg
xp perhaps... but I think it's important that the first time we see Janey-E in The Return, she's dressed EXACTLY like Betty Elms when she arrives in Hollywood in Mulholland Drive. Exact same outfit, haircut, etc. I feel like Lynch is not into deploying that kind of fan service without any deeper/further meaning.
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 29 August 2017 18:35 (six years ago) link
I still don't know what to make of the abundant references to his filmography throughout The Return. I have a hard time believing Lynch is doing a Tarantino and just referencing himself for the hell of it.
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 29 August 2017 18:36 (six years ago) link
# of characters in twin peaks that are actually another character in twin peaks, as of the last 50 hours of twin peaks: 0
but it's probably true that Candie is Laura and Janey is Diane and Rodney is Heidi and
― streeps of range (wins), Tuesday, 29 August 2017 18:36 (six years ago) link
"Janey-E's inquisitive/knowing look when Coop is vaguely explaining his situation when they're driving to the casino"
no
― akm, Tuesday, 29 August 2017 18:37 (six years ago) link
https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fpthumb.lisimg.com%2Fimage%2F4782041%2F500full.jpg&f=1https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2F1k95i3bqziq3bboq03r87f8x-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F07%2Fjaney-e-tp.jpg&f=1
similar but no
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 29 August 2017 18:37 (six years ago) link
there was def something about twin peaks/lost highway/mullholland existing in the same universe on lynch's old website back in the day.
― kurt schwitterz, Tuesday, 29 August 2017 18:37 (six years ago) link
^^^also this
Lynch revels in parallels and coincidences, but this literal "person A is actually person B!" is not a thing he does, at least not in Twin Peaks.
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 29 August 2017 18:38 (six years ago) link
the characters are nothing alike, for one thing (xp)
― akm, Tuesday, 29 August 2017 18:38 (six years ago) link
ok that seems silly but we'll find out in a couple of weeks i guess
janey-e seems more than just a 2-dimensional naive character to me, she's also very protective of her family and doesn't seem that surprised when she finds out about the money dougie owes to the gangsters
― na (NA), Tuesday, 29 August 2017 18:38 (six years ago) link
just fyi as soon as the series ends i will make a separate thread where i pull out every single wrong out-there theory from these threads so we can mock them all in great detail
― na (NA), Tuesday, 29 August 2017 18:39 (six years ago) link
people do the same shit with Tarantino (and at least there there are some p explicit textual refs linking them) but imo these kinds of things are always bullshit and just directors having a bit of fun. Ppl who fixate on these kinds of minor details as significant or evidence of some larger hidden narrative have Tommy Westphall Universe Derangement Syndrome.
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 29 August 2017 18:40 (six years ago) link
It's not necessarily "referencing himself" like there are curtains in lost highway because lynch likes curtains
― streeps of range (wins), Tuesday, 29 August 2017 18:40 (six years ago) link
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, August 29, 2017 2:38 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
you're right, that makes sense. & but just one other thing - Janey-E looks like Betty but acts like Diane (Selwyn), if she had sobered upok thats it for me on this tip
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 29 August 2017 18:42 (six years ago) link
actresses be acting
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 29 August 2017 18:43 (six years ago) link
i will make a separate thread where i pull out every single wrong out-there theory from these threads so we can mock them all in great detail
New board description
― Thomas Gabriel Fischer does not endorse (aldo), Tuesday, 29 August 2017 18:44 (six years ago) link
Pretty sure I finally tracked down the lynch quote about tp/lh once and it was really more that they occupied the same headspace but of course ppl took the ball and ran to crazytown with it
― streeps of range (wins), Tuesday, 29 August 2017 18:44 (six years ago) link
― streeps of range (wins), Tuesday, August 29, 2017 2:40 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
OK the first scene in Part 8 was extremely Lost Highway
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 29 August 2017 18:44 (six years ago) link
Yes they were made by the same person
― streeps of range (wins), Tuesday, 29 August 2017 18:45 (six years ago) link
To the extent that people really believe that Janey-E is actually Diane, I think it's probably because they enjoy being wrong about things.
― Glengarry Glen Marshall (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 29 August 2017 18:46 (six years ago) link
It's how Lynch films a car driving! xp
― Le Bateau Ivre, Tuesday, 29 August 2017 18:46 (six years ago) link
wasn't just that - Ray shooting Mr. C in the middle of the desert at night, & Mr. C undergoing some kind of ritualistic transformation/sublimation... I realize this is tenuous bc at the same time you have the Woodsmen that look like the Winkie's Monster circling his body like vultures, pulling BOB out... ok im out
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 29 August 2017 18:48 (six years ago) link
think there's some basic differences of approach here between those of us who interpret works by a single artist as often incorporating repeated motifs, tropes, and themes and others who interpret those works solely as a web of references to each other. the latter seems really weird and un-fun to me, as if everything is just a puzzle with an ultimate answer/form to be revealed, as opposed to just getting into why these particular aspects of an artists' style are so foregrounded, what emotional power do they have, etc.
xp
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 29 August 2017 18:49 (six years ago) link
the "WOW-everything-is-a-reference-to-something-else!" school is how we end up with Ready Player One garbage
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 29 August 2017 18:50 (six years ago) link
Wilson you son of a bitch
― streeps of range (wins), Tuesday, 29 August 2017 18:52 (six years ago) link
Shakey otm x 1000.
― Le Bateau Ivre, Tuesday, 29 August 2017 18:53 (six years ago) link
yeah i know, i hate that shit. that's why i'm perplexed that there are so many references throughout The Return. this goes beyond his usual motifs (doubling, identity crises, violent men, beautiful & abused women), but like you said Shakey, Lynch just likes parallels & coincidences. i don't think there's some Tarantino/Kevin Smith puzzle here, that's why the references or similarities stuck out to me. they seemed curiously specific, & i don't know what to make of them bc there's no way it's some fan service BS like a lot of people think.
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 29 August 2017 18:56 (six years ago) link
Yep otm!
― Week of Wonders (Ross), Tuesday, 29 August 2017 18:56 (six years ago) link
anyway we'll find out in 5 days (!!)
Re shakey
flappy, duder, those aren't references. They're motifs that Lynch has returned to regularly throughout his career. Laura Dern isn't simultaneously portraying every character she's ever appeared as in a Lynch film.
― Glengarry Glen Marshall (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 29 August 2017 18:58 (six years ago) link
oh fuck i thought there being two episodes left meant that there would be one ep this week and then a double episode the next week. i didn't realize this weekend is the last of it :( :( :(
― na (NA), Tuesday, 29 August 2017 18:59 (six years ago) link
Flappy, you are confusing tools out of Lynch' tool box for references to past works. Every creative person has a palette of tastes and tropes and favourite ways of doing things.
I cannot for the life of me think Lynch - in TP The Return - would reference previous works like Lost Highway, as you said, or tie that film into the Twin Peaks universe. I'd be very disappointed in fact if it turns out he does. It doesn't make sense and takes away the magic of the TP universe, and instead makes it about its creator.
― Le Bateau Ivre, Tuesday, 29 August 2017 18:59 (six years ago) link
Beyond that, I'd be disappointed if he tied Lost Highway into The Return because Lost Highway is his worst film.
― Glengarry Glen Marshall (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 29 August 2017 19:01 (six years ago) link
ya i agree - like i said, i don't think it's fan service and would be really disappointed if that were the case - perhaps has something to do with this being Lynch's first project in over a decade, & me rewatching all of his movies right before I started watching The Return.
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 29 August 2017 19:01 (six years ago) link
how's annie
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Tuesday, August 22, 2017 5:41 AM (one week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Where's Donna
― streeps of range (wins), Tuesday, August 22, 2017 5:47 AM (one week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
WHAT HAPPENED TA JOSIEEE
― streeps of range (wins), Tuesday, August 22, 2017 5:48 AM (one week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 29 August 2017 19:06 (six years ago) link
It's the longest and likely last film he will ever make, it's no surprise that it spends a little time in every mode he's previously employed and a few more
― streeps of range (wins), Tuesday, 29 August 2017 19:06 (six years ago) link
Can understand you though, seeing all these familiar things dangling in front of you and trying to make sense of it.
What I love about TP, and ilx's thread and participants specifically, is there is (almost) no mouthing off someone who has an out-there theory, or doesn't understand something.
Having said that, I pity some friends who said they'd wait for the dvd of this to "binge" it. They'll have nothing to hold onto wrt sharing clues, anticipation etc. Lynch was 100% correct in not dumping all of this netflix style, but going week by week.
― Le Bateau Ivre, Tuesday, 29 August 2017 19:06 (six years ago) link
yeah I have really enjoyed having this to watch on a weekly basis all summer, it's a cultural oasis
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 29 August 2017 19:14 (six years ago) link
speaking of the Fireman's opening convo - still have no idea how "Linda" figures into this
this is actually what makes me think Richard might be seen again...
― Screamin' Jay Gould (The Yellow Kid), Tuesday, 29 August 2017 19:22 (six years ago) link
This isn't quite true though - the waiter turned out to be the Giant! And that Japanese dude turned out to be Catherine!
― Screamin' Jay Gould (The Yellow Kid), Tuesday, 29 August 2017 19:24 (six years ago) link