Drink full: The TWIN PEAKS 2017 spoiler thread, part 2

xp yeah I was responding to chaki's post about the real north bend being foregrounded. It obv won't be picked up by everyone but you can def view it alongside the other choices made to present this part in a more naturalistic style

Like I said tho it kinda has the opposite effect

xpost In order for Lynch to deliver an even more brutal dose of reality which completely undermines the viewer's desire for pat nostalgia?

Like the final episode of season 4 is just an extended montage of various characters' dying moments. Kinda like Six Feet Under but more focused on the visceral brutality of dying.

the last section, after Cooper and Diane drove through to the other side, felt a lot like the second section of Lost Highway

maybe they literally drove on the lost highway, idk

This, along with the fwwm ending is what informs my optimistic reading I outlined upthread: the so-called "loop" Cooper seems to be moving through is so much vaster, more labyrinthine and full of possibility than the Möbius strip of lost highway, and yet according to lynch there's hope even there - I always come back to the fact that lynch told Martha Nochimson that the only reason Fred's story ends badly is that we stop following it. If that's true of a film as chilly as lh, it has to be true of the character lynch & frost chose to gift with the Dougie story.

That Reddit happy-ending thread above brought my to my attention that names Maersk (the name on the shipping container behind Judy's) and Valero (the gas station where Carrie/Laura and Richard/Coop fill up) are both shown prominently, possibly indicating a setting in time. Both companies were formed in 1997, so I feel like they're pretty intentionally shown off as markers of time.

so many xps

The real world ending is a little more real right now considering a big chunk of WA (state) is on fire and the haze hanging over the puget sound area is providing some of the eeriest light I've ever seen here.

xp to Je55e, when Cooper wakes up in a different motel, they very clearly show a mid 1990s television on top of the dresser

Or rather it doesn't have to be but all these things make the possibility more real to me xps to me

I wish I could set 2 bookmarks on a single thread.

That Reddit happy-ending thread above brought my to my attention that names Maersk (the name on the shipping container behind Judy's) and Valero (the gas station where Carrie/Laura and Richard/Coop fill up) are both shown prominently, possibly indicating a setting in time. Both companies were formed in 1997, so I feel like they're pretty intentionally shown off as markers of time.

Didnt the detectives Fusco discover that there was no trace of Dougie before 1997?

/actual homeowners /

? aren't the Chalfonts and Tremonds actual people that have been referred to/shown in the TP "universe" before?

if you're referring to the woman who answers the door being the irl owner of that actual irl house, idk how we're supposed to know that from just watching the episode. seems a lil too extra-textual to me.

That Reddit happy-ending thread above brought my to my attention that names Maersk (the name on the shipping container behind Judy's) and Valero (the gas station where Carrie/Laura and Richard/Coop fill up) are both shown prominently, possibly indicating a setting in time. Both companies were formed in 1997, so I feel like they're pretty intentionally shown off as markers of time.

so many xps

Oh whoa - this would give some context to the "Dougie didn't exist before 1997" bit from a few episodes ago

Cool interview with Kyle MacLachlan from today: http://www.vulture.com/2017/09/twin-peaks-kyle-maclachlan-on-the-art-of-playing-many-coopers.html?utm_campaign=vulture&utm_source=tw&utm_medium=s1

have thought that every cut in episode 18 is a dramatic shifting in time, kinda like the bone/spaceship in 2001. Diane seeing her 'doppelganger'/an alternative version/vision of herself is a dream of leaving this pointless chase (and so she does). Single story Motel/Double story motel etc. Coop goes it alone for a longer stretch culminating (from the viewers' POV) w/ Carrie Page at the Palmer's house. "What year is it?" is spoken by a man who has lost track of his entire reason for doing/being. Coop as Quixote.

Also re that vulture link: The Hidden is a great move if yall haven't seen it

Also, over the years I learned with David not to ask him a lot of things. I used to ask him a lot of things when I was younger. I wanted to know everything. But now, I only ask what I need to know going forward. I have my own interpretation of what’s needed and what David’s going for, so we let the journey unfold, not trying to dissect it too much.

have thought that every cut in episode 18 is a dramatic shifting in time, kinda like the bone/spaceship in 2001. Diane seeing her 'doppelganger'/an alternative version/vision of herself is a dream of leaving this pointless chase (and so she does). Single story Motel/Double story motel etc. Coop goes it alone for a longer stretch culminating (from the viewers' POV) w/ Carrie Page at the Palmer's house. "What year is it?" is spoken by a man who has lost track of his entire reason for doing/being. Coop as Quixote.

Great point about Diane. Coop as Quixote is so otm. We wait 16 hours for Cooper to return, the no nonsense, noble, v competent hero, only to see him sidelined & tucked away in time, defeated by his own hubris & ignorance. It's an incredibly devastating process to watch, I mean, your heart is just cleaved

...and he is broken down more and more each time. Maybe he keeps going back into the lodge to reset himself or maybe he can change times at will but with each cut he comes back a little more broken. I just feel like Carrie Page has been encountered before, and the drive to Twin Peaks has happened before.

Man, all this stuff about Coop failing in the end, being defeated, etc: I can kind of see it, but there's very, very little textual support for the amount of attention that's being given to this line of thought, it seems to me.

Will Cooper ever get to settle down and buy some property in Twin Peaks????? goddamnit david

i don't see Cooper as defeated at all. in fact it's the opposite. he is still continuing the fight. even though he knows it is literally impossible he continues on. so what if he is trapped in an alternate dimension for some of it - he has done that before! we may have had a whole series about it.

Wouldn't the prices at the Valero gas station be a clue what year it is?

xp
actually one version of Coop is settling down, but with Janey as Dougie (and I did have a question as to why Dougie/Coop says "home" when he goes back to Vegas. Did he really think he was Dougie, or does he have real Coop's memory, and is knowingly playing a part?)

Man, all this stuff about Coop failing in the end, being defeated, etc: I can kind of see it, but there's very, very little textual support for the amount of attention that's being given to this line of thought, it seems to me.

You don't think he seems noticeably bumbling & dazed & out of it after he wakes up in Odessa? He couldn't escape the loop. He couldn't prevent evil from coming into existence. He thought he could & he ended up in a place far more vast & confusing than the Black Lodge.

xp
actually one version of Coop is settling down, but with Janey as Dougie (and I did have a question as to why Dougie/Coop says "home" when he goes back to Vegas. Did he really think he was Dougie, or does he have real Coop's memory, and is knowingly playing a part?)

― Dominique, Tuesday, September 5, 2017 3:26 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

isn't he just doing the dougie repeating thing?

xp
actually one version of Coop is settling down, but with Janey as Dougie (and I did have a question as to why Dougie/Coop says "home" when he goes back to Vegas. Did he really think he was Dougie, or does he have real Coop's memory, and is knowingly playing a part?)

yes this is the silver lining of the otherwise unrelenting bleakness of 18. He not only saved Dougie & his family, he improved their lives & improved Dougie. Good q re: is it Dougie or Coop - either one is a nice ending.

he seemed dazed all season as Dougie. still didn't matter.

i think we need to seriously think about what a "happy ending" to this would have been. it's completely unrealistic. there is no happy ending. Cooper doesn't care, he still wants to try.

Re season 4 I'd much rather Showtime or someone else throw money at Lynch to make a new project. As elastic as TP is for him and Frost I don't think it properly exists for them without revolving in some way around the murder of Laura Palmer, which feels kind of wrung out at this point. Plus so many of the original cast being deceased or MIA, plus I'd rather just move on.

Cooper isn't going to defeat all evil finally forever. that is silly. that ending is just as absurd as green glove kid punching Bob.

xposts

also, remember that the electricity "going out" can also mean a surge of electricity, too much electricity. my first reaction when i saw it was to think that evil had come to this hitherto normal household.

― Karl Malone, Tuesday, September 5, 2017 10:50 AM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Season 4 -- Twin Peaks: The Checking of the Palmer's Breaker Box

Did we know that Ray was snitching to the FBI?

"Has my watch stopped, or was that one of the Marx brothers?"

btw I have to give full credit to Chrysta Bell for her reading of "He electrocuted himself by sticking a fork.. in a wall socket"

Ray was clearly passing info to someone but I think it was left unclear, even meant to be misdirection.

no they specifically said he was an informant in the big ep. 17 exposition scene at the beginning

an fbi informant that is

man Albert getting no dialogue whatsoever in twin peaks

Yeah sorry, I meant prior to that.

xp

Man, all this stuff about Coop failing in the end, being defeated, etc: I can kind of see it, but there's very, very little textual support for the amount of attention that's being given to this line of thought, it seems to me.

― Dan I., Tuesday, September 5, 2017 3:24 PM (eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah I can't speak to the accuracy of this interpretation, could well be true, but that narrative falls real flat for me. Cooper failing at the end of S2 was powerful, because we'd spent two seasons with him and seen the limits of his goodness. Ditto Naomi Watts being pushed to the edge in Mulholland Drive, b/c we'd spent much of the movie with her. But Cooper failing at the end of an 18-hour odyssey he was barely a player in for the first 16 episodes is really unsatisfying. Why did he fail? Why did he do anything he did? It was hard to tell, because we'd hardly spent any time with him

Ray actually addressed the person on the phone as Philip so I think all the stuff he says before dying is true - what this means re the FBI snitch reveal is just unfathomable

Albert and Tammy relaying all the info on Dougie after just glancing around at the machines was pretty amusing.

She pulled the info off the computer file on Douglas Jones sent to them by the Las Vegas field office.

/Man, all this stuff about Coop failing in the end, being defeated, etc: I can kind of see it, but there's very, very little textual support for the amount of attention that's being given to this line of thought, it seems to me.

― Dan I., Tuesday, September 5, 2017 3:24 PM (eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink/

Yeah I can't speak to the accuracy of this interpretation, could well be true, but that narrative falls real flat for me. Cooper failing at the end of S2 was powerful, because we'd spent two seasons with him and seen the limits of his goodness. Ditto Naomi Watts being pushed to the edge in Mulholland Drive, b/c we'd spent much of the movie with her. But Cooper failing at the end of an 18-hour odyssey he was barely a player in for the first 16 episodes is really unsatisfying. Why did he fail? Why did he do anything he did? It was hard to tell, because we'd hardly spent any time with him

apart from the two seasons we spent with him

So, what exactly happened in the scene with Mr. C in a cage by Garland's head? Most of it seems pretty straightforward, but just before he was sent to the TP police dept. parking lot, C was transformed into... something. I thought it was a monkey on first viewing, but it's not. It looks like a bristle brush and a marble? Is it maybe a golden ball and a shock of hair (i.e. the components for constructing a Tulpa)!?

(this question not related to the "did Coop fail" thing)

he didn't fail tho! all season he was constantly winning without even trying. he even went back in time and stopped Laura from ever dying in the first place.

I haven't rewatched since the first time but I thought it was just his head from a rear angle lol

it's a bezoar