OK now I see, I literally hadn't remembered that there was a cell phone call from Cooper to the sheriff's office earlier in the episode
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Saturday, 9 September 2017 10:49 (six years ago) link
No no, good Coop was on cell while bad Coop was in the room, to Lucy this made perfect sense whereas the Sherriff being on cell as he walked into the building in ep 4 blew her mind.
― attention vampire (MatthewK), Saturday, 9 September 2017 12:26 (six years ago) link
Isn't that what I just said?
― streeps of range (wins), Saturday, 9 September 2017 12:28 (six years ago) link
one reading (here?) is that she was an innocent who didn't understand technology until she fired a gun and killed someone and is now like the rest, ruined by technology and violence.
― dan selzer, Saturday, 9 September 2017 12:59 (six years ago) link
sorry wins, something short-circuited in my brain there, disregard please
― attention vampire (MatthewK), Saturday, 9 September 2017 13:28 (six years ago) link
Did anyone link the theory on waggish.org yet? I like that one despite a few paragraphs that suggested the author misunderstood the characters.
― Treeship, Saturday, 9 September 2017 13:45 (six years ago) link
discussed at length upthread
― sciatica, Saturday, 9 September 2017 13:53 (six years ago) link
I can't get over/unsee
http://store.sho.com/imgcache/product/resized/001/451/022/catl/twin-peaks-the-dougie-t-shirt-174_1000.jpg?k=dafaaf2e&pid=1451022&s=catl&sn=showtime
― 🔱 Holger Jowday ^🌑^ (Dancing on the Pylons), Saturday, 9 September 2017 14:14 (six years ago) link
I sometimes think of Coop as patripassian now
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJM5zaCXYAAkJei.jpg:large
― 🔱 Holger Jowday ^🌑^ (Dancing on the Pylons), Saturday, 9 September 2017 14:17 (six years ago) link
I wrote a piece about the structure of The Return being like the internet. Hyperlinked, too many connections. It fits in with the horror being obviously digital effects. They are kinda caught in the net, the same way FWWM seemed to be about people caught in a tv show.
― Frederik B, Friday, September 8, 2017 9:26 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Frederik, my Danish is a bit rusty, but is this online somewhere? Would like to read it.
― Le Bateau Ivre, Saturday, 9 September 2017 14:19 (six years ago) link
Rescreening S2 for as long as I can stomach it, there's a scene in S2E3 with Shelly in the Twin Peaks Sheriffs Office talking about taking Leo home from the hospital when he's healthy enough (as per Bobby's prompting).
About halfway through her plea to Truman, Cooper interrupts to quickly dismiss her and show her the door.
Truman is aghast, and asks Cooper why and Cooper replies "Insurance money".
Echoed again in Dougie's terse "He's lying" in S3?
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Saturday, 9 September 2017 14:25 (six years ago) link
Could someone repost the Mulholland Drive Winkies Hot Dog gif, please?
― Acting Crazy (Instrumental) (jed_), Saturday, 9 September 2017 15:12 (six years ago) link
For those who read French there's an excellent piece in this weekend's "Libération" newspaper with additional thoughts from Bertrand Bonello and others.
― Acid Hose (Capitaine Jay Vee), Saturday, 9 September 2017 17:44 (six years ago) link
Karl et al: I take the point & will try not to pour cold water over any crackpot speculations :-)
― streeps of range (wins), Saturday, 9 September 2017 18:51 (six years ago) link
Here you go jed_
sorry mr. lynch pic.twitter.com/ZICATyxBwP— Chris Person (@Papapishu) July 12, 2017
― josh az (2011nostalgia), Saturday, 9 September 2017 18:55 (six years ago) link
― Le Bateau Ivre, 9. september 2017 16:19 (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
http://pov.international/kinok-amerikanske-dromme/
It's really only half a piece. The other half is about Logan Lucky, and the conceit being about how American indie cinema has changed since the late 80's.
― Frederik B, Saturday, 9 September 2017 19:05 (six years ago) link
I've been thinking a lot about the scene in Part 1 where we first see Lucy and the Sheriff's Department. A big, sweaty, blotchy nervous looking band walks in and asks for Sheriff Truman and Lucy replies "Which one?" He's totally thrown off and doesn't know what to say. Lucy keeps repeating "It could make a difference." Finally the guy gives up, gives Lucy a card, and says "Tell him it's about insurance."
― flappy bird, Saturday, 9 September 2017 20:11 (six years ago) link
love reading this thread, but have avoiding commenting because feel there is a heirarchy of who's right/wrong here, sad to say. has been addressed upthread tho
― Week of Wonders (Ross), Saturday, 9 September 2017 20:25 (six years ago) link
yes i'm right and everyone else is wrong
― na (NA), Saturday, 9 September 2017 20:44 (six years ago) link
i think the guy in episode one was just there to help establish that harry truman is sick.
― akm, Saturday, 9 September 2017 21:08 (six years ago) link
"it's for insurance"
― flappy bird, Saturday, 9 September 2017 21:18 (six years ago) link
the people Ross feels are right are, in fact, wrong
the other people otm
― mh, Saturday, 9 September 2017 21:28 (six years ago) link
Few things. Haven't seen them covered but I stopped reading posts itt tbh.
Dunno if we can say definitively if/when coop truly fucked up, but can't help feeling that Bob escaping dead bad cooper before ring was put on him is significant, and not for a second do I think that Cooper's Twin Peaks level is completed when gray Bob cloud shrapnel floats up through the ceiling after a few hulk glove smacks.
TP level coop moves on-as do we from 'Twin Peaks'-as soon as naido removes her mask to reveal Diane, whence coops face is a background to the end of level cutscene where it's a big goodbye to our friends from this story throughout.
Think that it's as likely as anything else that Richard is actually the base person, and any other character portrayed by KML is a splinter in a mindspace or whatever.
And lastly, I wasn't really feeling the 'different realities' as something concrete at any stage, but bad coop being zod-imprisoned in the theatre and thence commuted to TP seemed to me as clear a clue as any I'd seen that the TP we had experienced to that point was a containment-zone or gameboard type environment. Whether that means only characters we've seen moving between lodges etc are real and the others are regens or whatever, I'm not particularly tied to.
Fwiw, felt 18 was a copout and 17 was a fanservice. Hasn't spoiled any of 1-16 for me but I don't feel a particular need to make the finale fit where it doesn't, either logically or emotionally/symbolically. All credit to lynch for the ride, but he couldn't finish it and I'm not convinced there's even Mulholland drive levels of coherency at play here.
― passé aggresif (darraghmac), Sunday, 10 September 2017 01:45 (six years ago) link
on the whole, this entire series was the least fan servicey it could have been and still been called Twin Peaks.
― cosmic brain dildo (Sparkle Motion), Sunday, 10 September 2017 02:20 (six years ago) link
Disagree, there was plenty
Not where you'd necessarily expect it, and not certainly ito main plot focus, but both threads have called out numerous and significant examples.
Don't think I've ever seen a show where the creator's awareness of the viewers expectation/speculation was so much to the fore, for good and ill
― passé aggresif (darraghmac), Sunday, 10 September 2017 02:28 (six years ago) link
Lucy being the one that shoots Mr. C was v fan servicey & I appreciated it v much
― flappy bird, Sunday, 10 September 2017 04:29 (six years ago) link
there were a lot of ways this series could have gone and I expected very little of what I saw. I think I'm going to bow out of the discussion of what constitutes fan service and what doesn't because I find it annoying. I very much appreciated this approach.
― cosmic brain dildo (Sparkle Motion), Sunday, 10 September 2017 06:03 (six years ago) link
my stupid podcast got linked on the criterion blog and now I request a tranquil, solitary, satisfying death
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Sunday, 10 September 2017 06:19 (six years ago) link
:-)
― streeps of range (wins), Sunday, 10 September 2017 06:34 (six years ago) link
Well-deserved imo.
― Scott Staph (Old Lunch), Sunday, 10 September 2017 12:47 (six years ago) link
(The Criterion mention, not your death.)
― Scott Staph (Old Lunch), Sunday, 10 September 2017 12:48 (six years ago) link
*Simon H.'s head vaporizes into a black void; floating gold orb comes out*
― clouds, Sunday, 10 September 2017 13:07 (six years ago) link
Andy encountering Mr. C outside the sheriff's statement was a great moment of suspense.
That climax was fine but the smash the orb boss battle was deeply stupid.
My big complaints: We never got to see even two minutes of Cooper shooting the shit with Albert and Cole and old pals. And not once during those 90 minutes do we have a clear sense of what Cooper is doing or more importantly why he's doing it. Even just a brief convo with Cole that hinted at his motivations would have gone a long way toward making me vested in that oblique final quest.
Cooper's original descent into the Black Lodge in the S2 finale was so terrifying because we experienced it from the perspective of a relatable, sympathetic character with clear goals and fears and shortcomings. His behavior was so arbitrary in the Return finale he was just an avatar in a suit.
― Evan R, Sunday, 10 September 2017 13:34 (six years ago) link
for me that whole spell from mr c arriving at the sheriff's office up to uh i guess its deflation with the boss battle was one big peak of anxiety. then it picked up again with the overlaid cooper. (though i both found the boss battle tense and loved its absurdity, a great cosmic battle of good and evil coming down to, this.)
― lazy rascals, spending their substance, and more, in riotous living (Merdeyeux), Sunday, 10 September 2017 15:11 (six years ago) link
here's a non-narrative question that still burns at me: why did Lynch not get more Badalamenti score music in this? Was it timing, availability? Just taking a stroll through the 'twin peaks archive' which I found and downloaded and there were hours upon hours of recorded music cues from the first two seasons and FWWM. Budget? What Badalamenti we get now is mostly him solo; but most of the cues from the past were bass, cymbals, piano...a small ensemble. It seems to have been a specific artistic choice to only use about 4 new tracks from Badalamenti, but I think this, more than anything else about the Return, is what differentiated it from the originals as a viewing experience.
― akm, Sunday, 10 September 2017 16:26 (six years ago) link
Maybe he wanted to differentiate it from the originals as a viewing experience
― streeps of range (wins), Sunday, 10 September 2017 16:30 (six years ago) link
Has there been any discussion of the 17&18 simultaneous theory?
I've only done side by side and not overlay; there are a handful of real coincidences but they may well be just that:
I'm aware, obviously, that the nature of the experiment means you're deliberately looking for the connections so are more inclined to see them, but none of the above are a stretch.
I started lining up an overlay version and watched the bit that's getting the most online traction (Mike enters the shot through the body in Carrie's duplex, and speaks framed by the plate with the horse in front of it on her mantlepiece) but I'm not convinced any alignments in that format aren't easily explained away by the rule of 3.
― Thomas Gabriel Fischer does not endorse (aldo), Sunday, 10 September 2017 16:55 (six years ago) link
link?
― streeps of range (wins), Sunday, 10 September 2017 17:00 (six years ago) link
https://medium.com/@onantiad/episodes-17-18-of-twin-peaks-the-return-are-meant-to-be-watched-in-sync-81352ce38e8
I made a quick and dirty side by side in iMovie.
― Thomas Gabriel Fischer does not endorse (aldo), Sunday, 10 September 2017 17:10 (six years ago) link
Oooohhhhhh
Top marks even if it turns out nothing that's great rabbit hole stuff
― passé aggresif (darraghmac), Sunday, 10 September 2017 17:12 (six years ago) link
lol, I have heard of this theory (I got some shit for posting about this the other day and overreacted)
The last couple of minutes appear to be completely in sync, one screen goes dark, then the other, then back, the photo smashing aligns with Cooper and Laura's awareness of the 'reality' at the end, etc.
This is the part that I thought was really cool. Intentional or not (and it works so well together it's hard to believe it was accidental) the way it plays out is amazing and I'm glad that it exists and it's a thing that we'll be able to cue up to amaze our twin peaks loving friends and family
― Karl Malone, Sunday, 10 September 2017 17:15 (six years ago) link
Reading it I realise I misremembered which scene the sex ritual is synced with.
― Thomas Gabriel Fischer does not endorse (aldo), Sunday, 10 September 2017 17:17 (six years ago) link
If this turns out to be even a tickler then I'm doing same for 8 and all of them just to see
(Not really)
(Maybe)
― passé aggresif (darraghmac), Sunday, 10 September 2017 17:17 (six years ago) link
https://heavyeditorial-files-wordpress-com.cdn.ampproject.org/ii/w1200/s/heavyeditorial.files.wordpress.com/2017/07/briggs-note.jpg
2:53 is the time the clock stops at, and the right icon might well represent the possessed Diane.
― Thomas Gabriel Fischer does not endorse (aldo), Sunday, 10 September 2017 17:30 (six years ago) link
Haha yeah I was joking because it was discussed at length a few posts above
My position was basically that I find this kind of thing depressingly literal, trying to treat art like sudoku at the very point where it seems to leave those games behind for something more slippery, and (most crucially) it doesn't convincingly add anything meaningful that can't be gleaned by just watching the two eps normally. We agreed to disagree and I guess I'm glad ppl are having fun with it
― streeps of range (wins), Sunday, 10 September 2017 17:31 (six years ago) link
Didn't mean to black hat anybody, couldn't remember whether it had been discussed here or not and wasn't going to try opening the full thread to find out.
― Thomas Gabriel Fischer does not endorse (aldo), Sunday, 10 September 2017 17:54 (six years ago) link
My position was basically that I find this kind of thing depressingly literal, trying to treat art like sudoku at the very point where it seems to leave those games behind for something more slippery
there's always been something appropriately digressive about both the show and the growing complexity of (attempted) exegesis around it and lynch's parallel effort to always bring that whole thing back around to the central trauma which motivates it.
― ryan, Sunday, 10 September 2017 18:00 (six years ago) link
(like, my personal favorite take on the whole saga is that it's laura's fantasy which places her suffering in some cosmic narrative which grants it meaning)
― ryan, Sunday, 10 September 2017 18:02 (six years ago) link
i'm resistant to attempts to crack the code through this kind of alchemy too, but still think it's completely to the credit of episode 18's specific kind of ambiguity that it provokes this kind of thing.
that said, v happy to note that the numerological pointers of the final episodes decisively prove my candie = laura thesis.
― lazy rascals, spending their substance, and more, in riotous living (Merdeyeux), Sunday, 10 September 2017 18:06 (six years ago) link
yeah it's not really the point to figure it all out, but it's not not the point either, i think.
― ryan, Sunday, 10 September 2017 18:08 (six years ago) link