Drink full: The TWIN PEAKS 2017 spoiler thread, part 2

I feel like the way lynch works is that he'll put in these echoes and resonances (and also yes just the notion that there are secrets to be grasped even tho they are deliberately out of reach), like in fwwm there are scenes which you can put side by side with scenes from the pilot and they look near-identical (you can see this in Bocko's video series) - but these echoes are obvious just by watching and their emotional impact is too.

What's the emotional impact of putting parts 17 and 18 side by side (and, I'm assuming, doing this comparison on the biggest screen possible, getting as close to the screen as you can, putting headphones on &c as lynch pleads rather than idk playing 2 avi files on yr laptop)?

Mostly it cemented (for me) the defeat of JowDay (if indeed that's what was possessing Sarah) comes as Carrie remembers Laura. And that the 'rescue' of Laura by Cooper is repeated across the realities and times.

But then I believe all art is there to be interacted with and interpreted by the observer - and this is perhaps more true of surrealism than other forms - and not just joylessly codified as a specific image alone. Wrapped in plastic, as it were.

this video will probably be taken down soon, but for those who don't feel like downloading videos, starting them up at the same time and then waiting for the last 10 minutes, skip to 52:36 in this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryVJPCs67WM

besides the juxtaposition of what is going on inside the palmer household (judy/sarah palmer losing her shit and stabbing the picture) just as coop and laura are putting 2 and 2 together on the outside, there is a really...emotional, goosebump raising fade to black in 17 just as laura screams in 18, then a perfect fading in of coop leading laura palmer by the hand in 17, then, after a really long pause in 18, it fades back in with laura whispering in coop's ear.

i don't know, just watch it. it's just absolutely beautiful. and then, by cosmic coincidence (because david lynch would never think to edit these two episodes at the same time and do it on purpose, that's ridiculous), the julee cruise song comes in juuuust as the credits finish in 18.

What's the emotional impact of putting parts 17 and 18 side by side

lol, xpost

To my eye, the bunny girls in the sheriff's office completed what was basically a religious tableau. Cooper's passing back into the world(s) of the lodges was similar to a wedding, or a funeral, or just a church service (with the added gravity of the prophet himself being in attendance). The Mitchum brothers, for sure, had become something like Dougie/Cooper's disciples by the end, and the girls were like attendants, or handmaidens. The food on their trays was a kind of symbolic bounty.

The abstracted symbolism, where drawing a clear 1-to-1 line between the signifier and that which is putatively signified does a disservice to the actual depth of the system of representation, reminds me of the Mystery in the Catholic mass.

Ya

By which I mean, when the chalice is held up, and the chimes ring, isn't it obvious that there's more going on than the trite story of transubstantiation that is attached to the actions?

xpost

CAndie is the virgin mother

At a dinner party last night for whatever reason we started talking about Wieland (Charles Brockden Brown) and in talking about it I realized that the Return (and maybe all of TP) is very much like that;what is difficult about Wieland for many people is that it sets out to seem like a 'novel' with a beginning, middle, and end; and in fact there are kind of those things, but it's also more a series of set pieces with a giant event at the end, that seems like an ending, or is at least a 'finish', but it is unsatisfying to a culture who has been indoctrinated with standard narrative format over the past 180 years. Anyway, at the time I found this comparison quite amazing but I was also kind of stoned.

also, unconnected, but the mix of Windswept on the soundtrack album is really amazing, I think it's different than the one Jewel released earlier this year.

best part of the original series (season 1) is when horne orders leo to burn down the sawmill in order to sell putin on the icelanders (fuck norway!) buying stock in the moscow trump hotel : )

I've been thinking for obvious reasons about Twin Peaks and John Ashbery. On the one hand it's clear that the wrong way to think of Ashbery's poems as puzzles whose "true meaning" you can unlock. At the same time, the process of finding associations, of identifying pronouns with potential antecedents, etc., is definitely part of reading Ashbery's poems, and should be! He is writing his poems with the understanding that the reading mind can't not do that and it's part of what generates the effect. I guess what I'm saying is that a hypothetical watcher who watched Twin Peaks purely as an exercise in tone and visual effect and was TRULY indifferent to the question "what's going on" wouldn't be seeing the whole thing. But I also don't believe humans can really watch like that!

Agree and of course nobody is arguing for that

lynch / frost write their scripts with the understanding that woke minds can really watch (experience life in general) like they take their dreams as prophetic precollections

ashbery was apparently a big lynch fan too, and i find it utterly heartbreaking that he died just before the finale.

I would love to read Ashbery on Lynch, is this in interviews?

Nowadays film watchers such as John Ashbery can do things differently. He doesn't go out very much these days. Movies can come to you now. You can see them at home. Some of his recent favourites have included David Lynch's Inland Empire and There's Something About Mary, starring Ben Stiller and Cameron Diaz. 'I saw that one about four times. All the essential dirty parts were cut for TV.'

http://www.pnreview.co.uk/cgi-bin/scribe?item_id=8311

I love both those movies too

how could you leave out the next sentence

For all his addiction to home cinema, he made at least one trip out to the movie house recently, to see Sacha Baron Cohen camping it up in Brüno. 'That has to be the filthiest non-porn movie ever made,' he wrote to me later, 'and worth seeing if only for that, though it's quite funny. There was only one other person in the audience.'

'Yes, I'd like to make a collage-type film. They do cross over, poetry and movies. My poetry seems to be something I make up as I go along. Certain movies strike me that way - going in and out of one's dreams...'

i'm fascinated by the unease generated by approaching TP's kooky bits literally

like every few years i get interested in this show and i'm surprised to see internet communities treating it like a big puzzle, it's surrealism! not chris nolan clockworkism

and then twenty minutes of wiki wormholing later i'm re-surprised to realize it's totally justified

Ha yes.

like everything that happens in the red room in episode 2 end up making literal sense, everything has a literal name, the red room itself is a literal place

the internet puzzle-solving communities are still pretty gross though

CHECK THIS OUT: https://www.reddit.com/r/twinpeaks/comments/6z818g/s3e18_the_key_to_understanding_the_return_is_dune/

i have NO IDEA if it's supposed to be satire, i don't think it is

not gonna believe it until we see the tptr cut scenes featuring sting as judy

Lynch seems to encourage 'puzzle' approaches, though - like with Mulholland Drive and the sheets of paper you got going in to see it: "David Lynch wants you to understand Mulholland Drive..." or whatever it said, with its list of clues.

http://bonobo.jones.free.fr/cinema/clues.jpg

http://bonobo.jones.free.fr/cinema/clues.jpg

like this kind of thing

yeah there were even more in the DVD liners. and they all have answers

lol @ "if you don't get it the first time see it again"

lol that's not great advice, most people don't want to treat a movie like it's a video game with puzzles/keys to open doors

sure about that

sure about what? my post is in reference to "if you don't see it the first time, see it again"

oh i thought you were talking about the list of clues

"see it again" is definitely lol marketing (so is the list ofc)

Never seen that MD flyer before. When Dune first came out, theaters handed out a glossery sheet.

DVD liner went one stage further (mine is different, but has the same questions):

https://garmonblogzia.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/24073-muldriveinsert.jpg

I'm not sure whether I remember being handed a list of clues on theatrical release, if I'm honest.

I remember it, but it had 10 like yours - but the one I posted was from UGC and that would have been where I saw it. I also remember it saying "David Lynch wants you to understand...etc.", but it was a long time ago, so who knows.

Either way, I think Lynch wrote them? Under pressure from the studio, no doubt, but still.

I definitely wasn't handed a list of study suggestions

Having not looked into it yet, I'm agnostic about whether scenes from the last two episodes sync up, but it seems pretty absurd to dismiss the notion out of hand, given that we've already seen an instance of two scenes that were fairly obviously intended to sync up (Judy emerging from the glass box/Coop and Naido in Purple Palace).

The problem isn't whether they sync up, but whether they sync up significantly better than any other two episodes, when watched by a motivated viewer.

maybe every single episode syncs up with the others.

If anything I'd promote the first and last - people like that kind of symmetry (and lynch does echo things between them, I think - still only watched it all once)

Anyone remember the game Deadly Premonition? It was way more derivative of Lynch than Silent Hill was. The first trailer was so similar to Twin Peaks that it looked like a ripoff but they changed things as the game developed.
It was supposed to be quite awkward but it had a fair number of huge fans.

http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/deadlypremonition/deadlypremonition.htm

Yeah, I was thinking about returning to that after abandoning it ages ago. It's an incredibly janky game in terms of mechanics but very very odd.

The non-Lynch work I've felt the most inspired to return to since the end of The Return is Frank (and Jim Woodring's work in general).

Ha yeah I was thinking of Jim as a viable post Peaks port to land in. Mahler symphonies have been my main succor in this comedown zone. Might have to reread the book of the new sun about now.

I have been wondering - when was the last time people who love narrative art have been collectively churning in a wake of this size? I was thinking, after the first complete performance of the Ring cycle, or, on a broader timescale, the whole generation of writers musicians and painters in the generation after Wagner. Is there a more recent example of a scene of global digestion of a piece of work so massive, strange, ambiguous and ridiculously self-hyperlinked?

Harry potter

Lost

Nakhchivan

Look What You Made Me Do

The problem isn't whether they sync up, but whether they sync up significantly better than any other two episodes

I dunno, I think 1/2 and 17/18 are special in that they were released simultaneously, so I think it does make more sense to look particularly to those two pairs for syncing magic.