*the creepy thing
― Eazy, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 21:29 (six years ago) link
can someone just link the really bad ones bc i did some searching last night and nothing approached videodrome levels of horror
― Mordy, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 21:29 (six years ago) link
like link to IRON MAN SHITS IN DORA THE EXPLORERS MOUTH FOR TWO HOURS HD bc i have a feeling whiney is just making shit up but if he's not i'd like to know
― Mordy, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 21:30 (six years ago) link
Since economic factors play no part in this, I'll assume Sara's Oakland is a luxurious place where women use their 24 months of paid maternity leave to take their kids to art exhibits of Xenomorphs 69ing
― "the fgti incident?" (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 8 November 2017 21:30 (six years ago) link
xp cool but can I request like an hxxp instead of a direct hotlink for that?
― sleeve, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 21:31 (six years ago) link
we're talking sitting at the breakroom table drawing on the backs of junk mail and misprinted documents with pencils and ballpoint pens -- or reading a book you can get for free from the library -- or like, running back and forth around the room, playing catch with a stuffed toy --- these are all very very expensive, exclusive things that only affluent white ppl can afford to have their kids do
― sarahell, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 21:31 (six years ago) link
@Mordy, check some of vids in the Dutch Medium post I linked to (some have been deleted, most haven't)
― Le Bateau Ivre, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 21:31 (six years ago) link
Mordy I understand idle curiosity but seriously why give them the clickz
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 21:32 (six years ago) link
i gave up on the "don't give them the clicks" thing a long time ago i just give everyone the clicks i don't care what the fuck they stand for
― Mordy, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 21:33 (six years ago) link
oh you
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 21:33 (six years ago) link
but thx i'm looking at the Dutch Medium post (i had avoided it before bc i don't speak Dutch) and the screenshots are illuminating xxp
"why don't these people who work 16 hours a day for $7.50 an hour just GO TO THE LIBRARY MORE" is the ilx hipster version of "If I was a poor black child, I'd learn to code and watch Ted talks"
― "the fgti incident?" (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 8 November 2017 21:34 (six years ago) link
have you ever even been in a library Whiney. I assure you there are a shit ton of poor people there.
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 21:34 (six years ago) link
This video does some digging into the Hey Kids! channel. Fascinating but v creepy:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8B1sRPwK248
― barbarian radge (NotEnough), Wednesday, 8 November 2017 21:35 (six years ago) link
well the thing is there's like 100 hours of Sesame Street videos for free on Youtube so it's not like you either pay for something or go down this rabbit hole
― frogbs, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 21:36 (six years ago) link
xpostsChildren don't choose how to be parented tho, so it was be great if those with depressed or damaged or shitty or whatever parents were able to watch nice things like their better-off friends get to watch without it morphing into something sad/violent/degrading that they can't properly process.
― Blandford Forum, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 21:37 (six years ago) link
No, not really. lots of poor children get books from libraries and read them. Some of them have libraries in their schools and classrooms. But let's be completely patronizing to the underclass, and assume that they are totally stupid and free of agency, and have absolutely no support systems.
― sarahell, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 21:37 (six years ago) link
beware the dutch medium post gets really wacky and outlandish but there is plenty there mentioned that is disturbing
― marcos, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 21:38 (six years ago) link
there's this great PBS app that's free and just runs indefinitely PBS content and if you have an iPad already you can def use that instead of youtube.
― Mordy, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 21:39 (six years ago) link
that's good info, thanks
― sleeve, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 21:39 (six years ago) link
yeah there's a bunch of shit like that. It seems to me like this is really only an issue for parents handing their toddlers devices unsupervised. And those people exist and some of them are probably desperate and unable to properly guide their children, others are probably just stupid idiots. I'm sure it's a rich tapestry.
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 21:41 (six years ago) link
xp to self The video gets a bit weird and conspiratorial near the end (the channel usually covers youtube horror games and the such) but its still kinda germane.
― barbarian radge (NotEnough), Wednesday, 8 November 2017 21:43 (six years ago) link
My kid’s primary tablet is one of those Amazon Fire Kid’s tablet. It only has Amazon prime kids content on it, nothing user generated. I give her free reign over it though, the only think I block is Veggie Tales. It is interesting to see what she discovers and what she gravitates towards.
― Jeff, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 21:43 (six years ago) link
And in the UK we have CBeebies god bless it. But the point is valid: for parents who are looking for alternatives to YouTube that won’t put deeply questionable (at best) stuff in front of their kids during screen time, way too many of those alternatives are pay-for.xp I agree with the “kids shouldn’t be left unsupervised” but at the same time I’ve totally had YouTube on while I am in the shower in the past (no longer) and also think it is deeply shitty of Google to just say “well, you know, under 13s shouldn’t even be on there you know, we blame the parents”.
― stet, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 21:45 (six years ago) link
@Mordy, some examples. Other ppl: don't click.
FROZEN ELSA vs WORLD'S LARGEST GUMMY WORM w/ Spiderman vs Joker Candy & Poo Colored Balls
Frozen Elsa GUMMY TONGUE PRANK! w/ Spiderman vs Joker Bad Baby Hulk Gumball - Superheroes IRL Dismembered body parts, like a bloody arm, being used to beat up Spiderman.... m'kay...
Pregnant Frozen Elsa Gives Birth to Baby 👶 Real Life Superheroes Fun Movie (real child dressed like elsa calls 'spiderman', he arrives, cuts out her baby. Later on a 'pregant spiderwoman' has a child, at 8.20, and it's smudged w/ lipstick, apparently they find it an ugly child or whatever etc)
Spiderman & Boy Misha vs Scary KILLER CLOWN w/ Superheroes in real life
― Le Bateau Ivre, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 21:47 (six years ago) link
PBS Kids, Nick Jr., and Disney Jr. all have apps that let you watch their videos. Some are free and some are unlocked when you tell it your cable provider.
We also like BrainPop (some free videos but more are unlocked for subscribers). As Jeff notes, Kindle has a thing called FreeTime with a lot of vetted content; it's an annual subscription. Amazon, Netflix, HBO, and Hulu also can stream through parent-controlled profiles.
― piezoelectric landlord (Ye Mad Puffin), Wednesday, 8 November 2017 21:55 (six years ago) link
(real child dressed like elsa calls 'spiderman', he arrives, cuts out her baby. Later on a 'pregant spiderwoman' has a child, at 8.20, and it's smudged w/ lipstick, apparently they find it an ugly child or whatever etc
OK, I watched this one all the way through. The comments are very weird, like, "HOW COULD YOU MAKE THIS GIRL PRETEND TO BE PREGNANT THIS IS ABUSE" like kids have never played doctors and nurses before, like they don't play with baby dolls that urinate everywhere? Obviously if there is abuse going on behind the scenes then that's terrible but I don't see what's up with the content aside from it being generally poorly put-together. Oh no, a little kid pretends to have a baby!
Having said that, I did find the pregnant spiderwoman bit really odd. It shifted tone a lot. The "smudged with lipstick" thing is very obviously intended to indicate that it's the Joker's baby and not Spiderman's, btw, so there's a cuckoldry subtext. But little kids wouldn't pick up on this so I have no idea who it's for.
― emil.y, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 22:07 (six years ago) link
sounds lame and totally not freaky. bummer.
― brimstead, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 22:09 (six years ago) link
I also watched the Buried Alive one and didn't find that disturbing aside from in an uncanny valley way, and I'm not convinced that there is any evidence that the uncanny valley is inherently damaging. There's definitely a massive element of moral panic happening here, and it's making it hard for me to actually concentrate on the issues that are real.
― emil.y, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 22:09 (six years ago) link
"I have no idea who it's for" is basically where I'm still at tbh (and agreed on the doctors and nurses thing).
What gets me personally is the pairing of cheerful, chirpy music with images that do not in any way correspond with that cheerfulness.
― Le Bateau Ivre, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 22:10 (six years ago) link
PBS doesn't have unboxing programming, though, and that's what kids really dig.
― Eazy, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 22:11 (six years ago) link
Which isn't uncanny valley, to be clear, but off or leftfield at the least xp
― Le Bateau Ivre, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 22:12 (six years ago) link
imo some of the real issues are:
google/YT lack of oversight
who and why
what are other options (being addressed)
as opposed to debating how fucked up the actual videos are (I trust Milton on this one), I'd rather focus on the algorithm gaming/hacking (shrug)
― sleeve, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 22:13 (six years ago) link
― brimstead
Tbh I worry that this is basically going to be my position. Especially as one of my all-time favourite youtubes is this (putting the link in the text as some people obviously do find this 3d shit seriously wrong, there's nothing actually gross in it, though).
― emil.y, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 22:14 (six years ago) link
Sleeve, good points all. Plus yeah, include me in the "surprised that Youtube Kids doesn't have human moderation" group.
― emil.y, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 22:16 (six years ago) link
That's a great video Emily, I love it too, but it's in a different universe all together from the stuff on this thread imo
― Le Bateau Ivre, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 22:16 (six years ago) link
I dunno, it's got: poorly rendered 3D, repetitive music with childish lyrics, massively overextended length, no discernible narrative, surrealistic imagery, bordering on inappropriateness but not really (kinda nude 3D furryism), etc... seems pretty of-a-piece with some of the animation we're all meant to be so shocked by. I realise that the big difference here is that it's not aimed at kids, but a bored kid could easily find it just by searching for "meow I'm a cat" (which is p much what I would've searched for if I had the internet as a toddler).
― emil.y, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 22:26 (six years ago) link
But anyway, I don't want to take over the thread, sleeve has done a good job in pointing out the things that are worth discussing, I'll bow out.
― emil.y, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 22:28 (six years ago) link
Toddlers generally can't read/spell fyi
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 22:29 (six years ago) link
(okay, yeah, I realised that they weren't likely to be typing in search terms, I figured that maybe tech-savvy kids of today used voice recognition? Otherwise how are they even on this stuff in the first place?)
― emil.y, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 22:30 (six years ago) link
(and also I guess I'm thinking 3+ is toddler-dom and below that is still a baby?)
― emil.y, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 22:31 (six years ago) link
12 to 36 months
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toddler
they can click on links w/screenshots that they recognize? I've seen pre-verbal kids navigate through multiple folder structures to find games.
― sleeve, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 22:32 (six years ago) link
Yeah pre-literate kids recognize icons, logos etc and pointing swiping and clicking is totally simple
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 22:35 (six years ago) link
Realizing that most ppl on this thread have no direct experience w small children...?
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 22:36 (six years ago) link
Huh, that's pretty smart. Well done kids. And apparently I am terrible at the chronology of a human lifespan.
― emil.y, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 22:36 (six years ago) link
xp that does seem to be the case
― sleeve, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 22:38 (six years ago) link
actually I'd guess somewhere under 50% as opposed to "most"
― sleeve, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 22:41 (six years ago) link
lol ya got me i've never even seen a small child in person before
― brimstead, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 22:59 (six years ago) link
"Have kids draw or read books instead" is good life advice depending on yr circumstances, like my aunt & uncle did that with my cousin and he didn't get to see much of any television until he was in his teens, but the vast majority of kids in my generation did and whether that was a class issue or bad parenting or whatever didn't change the outcome, and I'm pretty confident it won't in this case either - most kids will watch YouTube, best to prepare for this.
― Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 23:12 (six years ago) link
our kid went through a stretch of wanting to watch shows all the time and then back at the end of July he had been watching a bunch of Odd Squad and I told him, "that's enough for one day" and he replied "if you let me watch one more episode i won't watch TV for 34 days." i replied, "well okay but I don't know, you'll probably ask to watch TV in a couple of days."
anyway he went 34 days, then wanted to double it, then triple it, and now we're on 104 days with no television despite my occasional reassurances (slightly begging maybe?) that he can watch a couple shows if he wanted to. he refuses to do it! i actually think watching his aforementioned friend constantly glued to her iPad watching shows maybe made some weird impression.
― omar little, Wednesday, 8 November 2017 23:32 (six years ago) link