The Jordan Peterson Thread

It is pretty lazy and irresponsible to associate Peterson with the alt-right. I know plenty of liberals that follow him, as well as reasonable conservatives. He's getting pegged as alt-right by quite a few blogs now.

Though he isn't helping his cause by embracing Pepe, focusing his ire exclusively on the left, appearing on alt right media like The Rebel. He was on Fox & Friends this afternoon.

It's not lazy, he's embraced that group wholeheartedly. They're the reason 99% of the people who've heard of him have heard of him and they're the reason he can pull in $30k a month with his Patreon.

It is pretty lazy and irresponsible to associate Peterson with the alt-right. I know plenty of liberals that follow him, as well as reasonable conservatives. He's getting pegged as alt-right by quite a few blogs now.

― Benjamin-, Friday, November 10, 2017 2:23 PM (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i know arguing with someone like you is a waste of time because you're not ever going to be arguing in good faith, but ...

jordan peterson is directly connected to the rebel, who hosted a crowdfunding campaign for him. he associates with the worst examples of the canadian alt-right, and has intentionally built a profile based on his transphobia which he has monetized.

like when you repeatedly appear getting interviewed by people like prison paul, the leader of the proud boys, you are being quite deliberate about who you want to associate with and why

a quick google confirms he was literally on fox and friends today

Marxism is a very broad social theory that extends far beyond its implementation in Soviet Russia and Mao’s China. Its core assertion is that whoever controls the means of production (the bourgeoisie in Marx’s writings) controls the ‘knowledge’ in society—the set of social norms, values and cultural conventions. This ‘ideology’ thus comes to be regarded as natural by everyone in society, even though it is only true in the sense that it benefits the bourgeoisie at the expense of the proletariat. Marx called this accepted ideology ‘false consciousness’.
Marxism experienced a revival in the social sciences in the 1960s as a theoretical framework for understanding how structures of power shape the social order. This approach to sociology went hand in hand with other emerging theories that questioned and challenged these relations of power (post-modernism, post-colonialism and post-structuralism in particular).
What Jordan Peterson is criticising, is a neo-marxist evaluation of how our society functions. In particular, people who believe that dominant cultural ideas are products of exploitative and oppressive elites. Which, for SJWs, is the white, cis-gendered, patriarchy.

See, the thing is, I'm not actually sure that this is an informed and coherent description of a real intellectual tradition, although, unlike Peterson, I recognize that intellectual history in philosophy and social science is not my area of specialization. (Marxism IS a modern grand narrative, for one thing, while I gather that postmodernism, insofar as I understand it to mean anything, involves some sort of scepticism of grand narratives.) It is more or less what he was saying on Fox and Friends, though, that postmodernism was when Marxism 'turned into' identity politics in the 60s, which seems very, very odd.

I really like the cultural DNA and semiotics discussion and as a non-religious person I find the religious meta-narrative stuff fascinating. I don't know his past but he seems to have gained an audience beyond his students & academia and is pursuing them and catering to them regardless of their belief system/makeup. he's an opportunist. i'm not gonna give him money but the little pop philosophy clips of his lectures on youtube are fun to listen to as someone that's really into semiotics and grand narratives. his postmodern / marxist schtick isn't really any different than what DFW was talking about in Infinite Jest, coping with the loss of God and how we have satisfied that innate religious impulse within all of us through various 'false idols' or dead ends or whatever, whether it's drugs or food or social media or hive mind cliques. I like that he mentions the Gulag Archipelago and Solzhenitsyn in almost every interview he does.

his postmodern / marxist schtick isn't really any different than what DFW was talking about in Infinite Jest, coping with the loss of God and how we have satisfied that innate religious impulse within all of us through various 'false idols' or dead ends or whatever, whether it's drugs or food or social media or hive mind cliques.

I haven't read Infinite Jest but it makes me think more of Obama-era Glenn Beck or a million right-wing conspiracy theorists (see the Rich Higgins memo or a bunch of these, in Canada: Worst National Post Columnist).

Closer to Chomsky than Glenn Beck.

He has a vocabulary, but he's basically a "political correctness sucks, amirite?" troll. Fuck him.

(I try not to make a practice of posting on threads about people I hate/make me mad, but as a Canadian academic, this guy has been an unavoidable nuisance for the last year or so.)

That's where he gets his money, but that's far from all he talks about. To be fair I'm not at all interested in the internecine battles of Canadian academics.

^suggest ban

Perhaps he has a way to tie all this together and I'm just not aware, but yeah, it's really difficult for me to see "marxist post-modernism" as anything but a paradox.

To be fair I'm not at all interested in the internecine battles of Canadian academics.

He is literally talking about using his social media following to go 'as hard as [he] possibly can' after any courses, disciplines, or professors that his computer program judges to be 'postmodern' via a scan of keywords in course descriptions. This isn't about something he said on a tenure review committee.

ftr, Chomsky never tried to prevent students from being exposed to other ideas.

http://www.macleans.ca/opinion/is-jordan-peterson-the-stupid-mans-smart-person/

ha, that's a good one and i loved the distinction between post-modern neo-marxism and cultural marxism.

In the least shocking news ever, Bill Maher is having this asshole on his show next week.

Boring guy nobody pays attention to imo. Maher or Petersen whatever.

Shit, we already had a thread for this fuck?

There’s been months of bullshit about him on the alt-right thread.

Also, fuck this guy,he’s a despicable idiot grifter and a nihilist at heart. I hope his family abandons him and his funeral is a well-oiled procedure conducted by bureaucrats wearing disposable gloves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vyw3Nl8LbFg

I’m waiting for the revelation that this guy has just been a Christoph Waltz character all along.

Bill Maher’s endless piping on about how he’s some arbiter of anti pc is laughable. Luckily Maher is so dumb that most guests can just shut him down

oh, come in.. I didn't see you out there... in the dark.

welcome... welcome to Lobster Manor... a respite, or perhaps, a trap? I jape, traveler, I jape...

I think if nothing else you will find the accommodations very... clean.

yes... very clean indeed. pic.twitter.com/FrB3B2Ucq6

— lvl45 CHAOS POTUS who thinks 'the pee won't leak' (@thetomzone) April 22, 2018

should I be surprised that every comment on that video is complaining about the woman on the panel for not shutting up and listening to Jordan Peterson

was trying to figure out who he reminded me of

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYAzjJRZ6HA

He’s a little like Kermit the frog vocally.

My buddy tried to show me this clown’s video on the Illuminati and I shut it off in 30 seconds. His lectures are insufferable - somewhat more tolerable on Maher but yeah I couldn’t believe my otherwise intelligent friend likes this fuckhead. Escalated into my friend calling me a dick and my response was “sorry man, can’t go for that “

what about the illuminati though??

Sorry Evan what do you mean? He was talking about the eye of Horus on the bill etc

Just the usual paranoid ravings of a madman

ross otm, i can't even see the appeal w/ this guy at all

"all the lefties are telling you this, that's what the postmodernists do, they are totalitarian! " bla bla bla he is completely unlistenable

he totally bombed on the Overtime segment. they're all talking about Trump impeachment + everything developing now and JP pipes up "but what will happen to the people that like him/identified with him" ...but in many more words & just confused + stumbling. also Alex Wagner owned him with that line "wow you really know a lot about me for having just met me"

I don't know, I thought he brought up a completely reasonable point about the current divide and the inevitable mess with Trump loyalists when their king is deposed. The problem was that he was making a plea for considering MAGA feelings immediately on the heels of arguing that when "solving a problem" it is *necessary* to offend others, and Wagner pounced on that.

this guy set his minions on me a couple weeks ago:

One activist, Sean Michaels @stgramophone, objects to me & the great & callow cowards at @Metropolisbleu dissociate themselves from @MtPressClub event honoring courageous Saudi dissident Raif Badawi (https://t.co/47ANcuIZSq) @BarbaraRKay @DMillardHaskell @benshapiro @joerogan pic.twitter.com/OKbWiflxQX

— Jordan B Peterson (@jordanbpeterson) April 11, 2018

let me put it this way: for acolytes of a self-help guru, they are not a very pleasant group of people

ugh this guy just drips self-satisfaction, he's so overly mannered in his poses and countenance, he's just deeply in love with himself. no wonder he appeals to red pill shitheads.

I don't know, I thought he brought up a completely reasonable point about the current divide and the inevitable mess with Trump loyalists when their king is deposed. The problem was that he was making a plea for considering MAGA feelings immediately on the heels of arguing that when "solving a problem" it is *necessary* to offend others, and Wagner pounced on that.

― DACA Flocka Flame (Hadrian VIII), Monday, April 23, 2018 1:38 PM (five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Right, the way everyone responded to it (m/l "not talking down to people or telling them they're dumb") was otm, but Peterson was essentially just hemming and hawing trying not to say exactly that, "what about their feelings?" which is especially rich after his whole "right to be offended" thing (which is otm).

He's never going to go away, is he

I mean the way they portrayed him on the show elided all of the worst stuff JP has said. In isolation he came off OK on the show. Would've been nice if they quoted or played clips of what he's actually said about transpeople.

He's never going to go away, is he

I think like a lot of these figures his audience will dwindle to a small amount of true believers (and then continue to shrink) rather soon. He's not canny enough to reinvent himself in order to keep up with the modern attention cycle. Only someone like Trump can do that and he had to become president to do it.

Thought this was a fairly decent yarn

https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/03/the-intellectual-we-deserve

whoever it was that said "oh, we need to *educate* these people" should read one of the many many NYT articles about how Trump voters still love Trump, despite the fact that he's done fuck all to help them

feel like this guy is just the latest version of Camille Paglia or Richard Dawkins or any number of other "controversial" academic media-figures that manages to push people's buttons. Eventually the luster/novelty fades and no one gives a shit anymore.

All these charlatans just stay in their circle. But the idea that he is 'the most influential intellectual' or whatever seems to have come and gone. At the end he has written a popular self-help book.

just another daddy figure who will disappoint in the end, i figure

Alas, the odds that Kanye gives him another signal boost in the next little bit are pretty solid

Listened to one of his interviews with Joe Rogan a few weeks ago. I like the self-help jibberjabber, but every five minutes it would be punctuated by "...and these postmodern neomarxists on the left want eqwolity of oatcome!" What might be a good self-help author who doesn't have issues?

And can someone explain the postmodernism thing to me? I don't know anything about postmodernist philosophy, but the art has always seemed very nice.

You want book recommendations, or you want an explanation of the whole 'postmodern marxism ruined western civilization' spiel?

re: self-help, I hear good things about David Smail's stuff.

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/news/jordan-peterson-beyond-order-reviews-misquoted-b2394516.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/news/jordan-peterson-beyond-order-reviews-misquoted-b2394516.html

Ha! That was a Mad Magazine gag from way back...

...also, describing him as a "Youtube professor" is quality shade...

Just really going full Batman villain here. Broadcasting from his secret lair.

EL OH EL pic.twitter.com/CtIvJBclHQ

— Majority Report (@majorityfm) August 25, 2023

I think he had to take a remedial course before, so this is all acting.

Jordan Peterson misrepresented something?

That is the most shocking thing I've heard in the last five minutes.

He also admits he doesn't actually need his psychologist license because he hasn't done any private practice for years. But basically he likes it as a credential.

I think he had to take a remedial course before, so this is all acting.

― adam t. (abanana)

a remedial course in acting?

That he definitely needs.

JBP dressing less like the Riddler and more like an 80s Doctor Who (Colin Baker or other)

I was about to say exactly this

its nice this guy has completely blown through the strangely high level of credibility he had a few years ago because I have to say I find him to be incredibly funny sometimes. he's like a Seinfeld character particularly a cross between Newman and Crazy Joe Davola. "wheel see who cancels who!" is just an objectively funny line sorry

Doctor Who Are You to Ask Me for my Pronouns

Lol

every single comment on this video from JB's youtube is like, Surely you, Dr. Peterson, sir, will persevere in your fight to illuminate the truth in dark times! Godspeed my good sir

Lots of people come back all weird after being killed and resurrected by their daughter

with all due respect Dr. Peterson I'm built different

yeah now that i think about it he did go to Russia to regenerate into his current form

treeship otm

its nice this guy has completely blown through the strangely high level of credibility he had a few years ago

He still has credibility in the UK media, I think he wrote a "thinkpiece" for the Daily Telegraph recently and I would not be surprised in the least to see him still pop up on UK television.

Lots of people come back all weird after being killed and resurrected by their daughter

Hey, all those shifts on the milking machine gonna take a role on a person’s sanity

Monthly Python (Tom D.) at 9:47 30 Aug 23

its nice this guy has completely blown through the strangely high level of credibility he had a few years ago

He still has credibility in the UK media, I think he wrote a "thinkpiece" for the Daily Telegraph recently and I would not be surprised in the least to see him still pop up on UK television.

Hahahahaha

Q: What do you think of Jordan Peterson as an Orthodox missionary and ‘the surge’ towards Orthodoxy?

A: This Non-Orthodox gentleman does not lead a Church life. He preaches an ideology. However interesting it may be and however sincere it may be and however close some of it may be to Orthodox views, it is not Orthodox Christianity because it is not living Orthodoxy. Thus, over the last years or so, I have been contacted as a priest by many young men (not a single woman), between the age of 16 and 40, who claim, under the influence of Jordan Peterson, they want ‘to become Orthodox’. When I have told them that they have to attend Church services for this to happen, they immediately lose all interest. In other words, they are in love with a podcast theory, ‘internet Orthodoxy’, not the Church. This is totally different from practice and reality.

There has been no surge towards Orthodoxy at all. I must add that some of those young men were very strange individuals, narcissistic, misogynistic, family-hating, sometimes, I suspect, repressed homosexuals and sometimes downright weird. I think they live in a virtual world of the fantasy, not the real one. It appears to be a generational problem, a result of the internet, a lack of contact with reality. Podcasts are not a Christian way of life. By their fruits, ye shall judge them.

From here.

Swap out Peterson for Dreher, probably the same effect.

Russian orthodox church was on this grind early in the game and has seen plenty of Jordan Petersons come & go

unnamed Orthodox weirdo himself OTM

Want a "podcasts are not a Christian way of life" t-shirt.

I want more background on the first question there - who’s asking if England was Orthodox before William the Conqueror and why?