agree that piece is flat-out awful
― Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, November 22, 2017 7:39 AM (four hours ago) Bookmark Fla
Why??
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Wednesday, 22 November 2017 18:39 (six years ago) link
i didn't read that whole paris review thing and i'm not saying that it is like this but i never ever have to read any variation on: will i ever be able to watch sleeper again???????????? kinda thing ever. as long as i live.
i don't watch his movies anymore. i don't want to know about him. he's gross. he was a hero of mine when i was a kid too but who cares. there are lots of movies to watch. and for woody fans out there look at it this way: in a hundred years if there are still people nobody will care what he did and everyone will delight in his antics again.
― scott seward, Wednesday, November 22, 2017 10:44 AM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
That’s not really the point of the Paris review piece, thankfully
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Wednesday, 22 November 2017 18:40 (six years ago) link
Nick Carter was abused by Lou Perlman right
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Wednesday, 22 November 2017 18:41 (six years ago) link
also it's weird that the paris review piece ran there when its editor has its own, uh, problems
― maura, Wednesday, 22 November 2017 19:06 (six years ago) link
where is the paris review piece? did someone link to it upthread? i can't find it w/ google
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 22 November 2017 19:10 (six years ago) link
https://www.theparisreview.org/blog/2017/11/20/art-monstrous-men/
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Wednesday, 22 November 2017 19:11 (six years ago) link
Surprised Michael Fassbender hasn't came up in all this. For beating up his ex-girlfriend
Was just thinking about the sighs of relief Joss Wheadon had after the Weinstein story broke and people stopped discussing his 'feminism as a front for macking on actresses'.
― to fly across the city and find Aerosmith's car (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 22 November 2017 19:19 (six years ago) link
oh it's a "can we separate the art from the artist?" piece, pass
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 22 November 2017 19:21 (six years ago) link
that paris review thing is just kinda bloggy. like from the old days. i do love that she uses the word "pettifoggery" because that's how the newspaper writer in my fave show Zoo gets busted and loses her job. she is writing an anonymous anti-corporate blog and her editor at the paper - a paper owned by the corporation the writer is blogging about - knows its her because she's the only person who ever uses that word.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 22 November 2017 19:23 (six years ago) link
I don't think Whedon is really going to benefit from the Warvey Heinstein explosion. Especially not Fassbender.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 22 November 2017 19:29 (six years ago) link
wait, i just noticed that PR thing IS a blog thing. so, you know, that would make sense.
― scott seward, Wednesday, 22 November 2017 19:56 (six years ago) link
― flappy bird, Wednesday, November 22, 2017 1:21 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
thats really not what its about, either
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Wednesday, 22 November 2017 20:48 (six years ago) link
although i guess its kind of glib about that point near the beginning
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Wednesday, 22 November 2017 20:49 (six years ago) link
its editor has its own, uh, problems
Have any allegations been published?
― mick signals, Wednesday, 22 November 2017 20:51 (six years ago) link
not yet
― maura, Wednesday, 22 November 2017 21:12 (six years ago) link
Inevitable
http://ew.com/tv/2017/11/22/law-order-svu-harvey-weinstein
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 22 November 2017 21:13 (six years ago) link
They'd want to have Sherlock Holmes casting it
― fake pato is kind of racist, dude (darraghmac), Wednesday, 22 November 2017 21:18 (six years ago) link
Hollywood will eat itself
― Mark G, Wednesday, 22 November 2017 21:20 (six years ago) link
A rep from NBC noted that SVU is fiction.
― .oO (silby), Wednesday, 22 November 2017 21:20 (six years ago) link
Former Charlie Rose Intern Says He Made Her Watch S&M Scene in 'Secretary'
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 22 November 2017 23:22 (six years ago) link
yeah, fwiw the Dederer article isn’t really about the thing it starts out being about. What is irritatingly precious about the writer’s voice evaporates, too; I think she did it on purpose. I found all the stuff about masculine insistence on objective aesthetic criteria and the problem of the woman artist to ring true, depressingly, to my experience. She is more than fair to Woody Allen, and I kind of mean that as a criticism, honestly.
― horseshoe, Thursday, 23 November 2017 01:02 (six years ago) link
But Woody Allen himself is not really the point either.
― horseshoe, Thursday, 23 November 2017 01:03 (six years ago) link
what is the point in 12 words or less.
― scott seward, Thursday, 23 November 2017 01:47 (six years ago) link
fewer
― mookieproof, Thursday, 23 November 2017 01:48 (six years ago) link
fine, 10 words
― Men's Scarehouse - "You're gonna like the way you're shook." (m bison), Thursday, 23 November 2017 01:57 (six years ago) link
When will a mod change the thread title? This has expanded far beyond Weinstein.
I think we're living through an social epoch of reckoning that deserves a name, but I hate #sexcrisis. #badmalebehavior would be better.
For myself (heterosexual male, chemically "castrated" for decades thanks to SSRI antidepressants), I'm both unsurprised by the behavior of some hetero males, and repelled/disgusted. Maybe everyone should experience what it's like to not feel sexual compulsions, simply to understand how hugely important they are in motivation, but also hugely damaging to individuals, as we attempt to integrate all of us as participants in society.
We're apes. We all inherited motivations geared towards getting more genes into the next generation. We need a legal framework that understands this, and both rejects employment discrimination and non-consensual sexual advances, while still recognizing the role sexual compulsions have played in getting humanity to its present, pretty comfortable, state.
It's not boys will be boys. It's we're all trapped here, and we need to figure out how to match social incentives/disincentives against our genes.
― Sanpaku, Thursday, 23 November 2017 15:13 (six years ago) link
so you're saying put a wiener on the coinage?
― j., Thursday, 23 November 2017 16:32 (six years ago) link
thread title should stay, its fitting with idiosyncratic ilx titles
― flappy bird, Thursday, 23 November 2017 16:42 (six years ago) link
No hashtags
I probably went too far there..probably the pre-Thanksgiving dissociatives. From my perspective as an "outsider" on all of this, I just think we need, as a society, to distinguish between sexual advances that are an abuse of power (many of those on this thread), and acts that aren't sexual advances at all. For example George HW Bush or Al Franken incidentally touching buttocks at photo ops. We need to get more uptight and angry about abuses of power, but not all of this qualifies.
― Sanpaku, Thursday, 23 November 2017 16:44 (six years ago) link
oooh “incidentally”
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Thursday, 23 November 2017 16:45 (six years ago) link
I think for the latter it's still an abuse of power and men taking what they want and implicitly feel they deserve and are allowed to get away with. Whether or not it rises to the level of Weinstein and others is probably not the issue, falling as it does under the general category of "shit men in positions of power and authority think they can do with impunity."
― omar little, Thursday, 23 November 2017 16:48 (six years ago) link
And not even just those men, but random nothing men. (Which some of these guys are anyway despite their stature.)
― omar little, Thursday, 23 November 2017 16:49 (six years ago) link
Yea obviously there are levels here but I think this cultural wave is sweeping the same general pattern of power abuse and silencing, this thread is a good repository and also Weinstein story lit the fuse
― flappy bird, Thursday, 23 November 2017 16:53 (six years ago) link
ts: shit men vs random nothing men
― ogmor, Thursday, 23 November 2017 17:15 (six years ago) link
acts that aren't sexual advances at all. For example George HW Bush or Al Franken incidentally touching buttocks at photo ops
but it wasn't "incidentally touching" they full on grabbed the butts. grabbing a butt is a sexual advance. and they did so because they could get away w it.
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 23 November 2017 18:34 (six years ago) link
like Al Franken didn't incidentally shove his tongue down that girl's throat because it was an accident or a lapse in etiquette. it is funny to say "It's not boys will be boys" and take a grand stand and then follow it up with "but these guys are cool and this was not sexual" those two sentiments almost seem entirely at odds w each other. if you want to apologize for that behavior then go ahead but don't pretend you are doing otherwise
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 23 November 2017 18:37 (six years ago) link
― El Tomboto, Thursday, 23 November 2017 18:46 (six years ago) link
We need a legal framework
Strange to say, societies that recognize the legal concept of property seem to struggle the most with defining the proper channels and boundaries for sexuality.
― A is for (Aimless), Thursday, 23 November 2017 19:08 (six years ago) link
For w/e reason I don’t believe the Franken tongue part on a personal level, although at the stage of the discourse what I think doesn’t matter
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Friday, 24 November 2017 00:24 (six years ago) link
Like, it’s just an underlying suspicion I have if I’m being honest w myself about my bullshit detector
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Friday, 24 November 2017 00:25 (six years ago) link
― omar little, Thursday, November 23, 2017 10:49 AM (seven hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I’m sure large % of dudes itt have have done something like that Franken photo tbh & I don’t say that to lessen the importance of reflecting on it but bc I think there’s a danger in dissociating from “the bad guys” & not recognizing the true extent to which male entitlement is a part of society’s fabric
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Friday, 24 November 2017 00:27 (six years ago) link
Let's just step back for a sec and let you set out exactly what you are sure that a large % of dudes itt have done, shall we
― fake pato is kind of racist, dude (darraghmac), Friday, 24 November 2017 00:30 (six years ago) link
Let’s not? We already deleted a thread like that. The point is skepticism of holier than thou attitude
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Friday, 24 November 2017 00:31 (six years ago) link
Otm. Speak for yourself D-40.
― Le Bateau Ivre, Friday, 24 November 2017 00:32 (six years ago) link
the otm was for deems
"I’m sure large % of dudes itt have have done something like that Franken photo tbh "
I mean...
― Le Bateau Ivre, Friday, 24 November 2017 00:33 (six years ago) link
I think there’s a danger in dissociating from “the bad guys” & not recognizing the true extent to which male entitlement is a part of society’s fabric
you know one way to discourage it from being a part of society's fabric until society is radically rearranged? making clear that behavior like this, no matter how common it is, has (or should have) material consequences
― Simon H., Friday, 24 November 2017 00:33 (six years ago) link
Anyway I bring up the fact that I’m suspicious of the Franken accuser only to say, in my mind, I’ve accepted that an overcorrection is preferable unless some incontrovertible evidence comes out; better to extend benefit of the doubt in the opposite direction & nurse personal suspicions of a false accusation than try and argue for a return to the old way of thinking about this stuff just bc I have an intuition
I’m assuming some ppl feel this way as well no?
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Friday, 24 November 2017 00:34 (six years ago) link
― Simon H., Thursday, November 23, 2017 6:33 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I agree w this point and was in no way arguing against it!!
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Friday, 24 November 2017 00:35 (six years ago) link