US Politics November 2017

psssst racism was not the only reason people voted for trump (a big'un though)

That’s what I’m sayin

Treeship, are you a New York Times reporter? If not, why are you so desperate to justify the hateful, nihilistic voting booth rage-spasms of, yes, garbage people?

glad to know i wasn’t the only one pissed about that nazi article. finally canceled my NYT subscription.

You need to come to grips with the idea that this country has a lot of very bad, stupid people in it. Irredeemable people, in fact. Sure, they’ll smile at you and shake your hand. But their political beliefs are poisonous, and unshakable. So fuck ‘em; they’re no good to you.

Racism/assholism or stupidity. Though I must admit a certain sympathy for Trump folks profiled in the New Yorker a few weeks back who were anti universal health care even though they would benefit and will be harmed by its absence, simply because they have some hard-held almost anachronistic ethical standard that no one should get something for nothing, especially when others are working hard and getting less for their effort. It's a similar strain of thought that runs through some of what passes for Trump-fans half-assed xenophobia. It's less that people hate foreigners and more resentment that someone might sneak into the country or arrive as a refugee and immediately be given benefits or resources that others have struggled to achieve for years. Not unlike, come to think of it, similar anti-union sentiment. "We fought for our benefits, why should someone who just got a job here get the same benefits we struggled for for decades?!" I don't know if these people are necessarily racist, but their sure views enable racists and their goals often intersect with racists, so not unlike Trump supports who claim not to be racists, if you're supporting a racist in service of goals shared by racists even though you yourself do not think of yourself as racist, or even other races or ethnicities as bad people or inferior to you, well, surprise ...

I talked about it with a friend after the election. His wife is Chinese, his daughter and son half Chinese. His dad was a Trump voter. The choice I think he gave his dad was, if you're not a racist, then fight back against all the racism of Trump and his racist followers. As we see, not many Trump supporters have been willing to do that. But then, Trump barely managed a victory (with mitigating factors), and as depressing as it is to consider, some immutable percentage of Americans are, yeah, garbage people, and he won with the swing support of perhaps slightly less-garbage people who perhaps inadvertently or maybe even unknowingly sided with garbage people. In fact, the only Trump supporter I personally know, who is old and a little dumb but not necessarily a bad person, as far as I have ever been able to tell, has full on buyer's remorse, even switching from Fox to MSNBC (!), but my feeling, as a different sort of garbage person, remains: fuck her.

The Nazi sympathiser piece is no masterpiece of journalism but I think it makes it pretty obvious that the guy is morally objectionable in every way. It's entitled Voice of Hate, and within the first few sentences it says he's a bigot and that most Americans would be disgusted by his views. It quotes him as saying Hitler was a warm and caring guy, I mean does that really need commentary? No, the reporter doesn't challenge the guy, but it's not that kind of piece. It's more of a 'this is what today's Nazi looks like' piece. And it also counterpoints that supposedly "normal" exterior with the bile that the guy posts online.

'this is what today's Nazi looks like'

Counterpoint: who gives a fuck?

Well sure, there's that!

On the other hand, if Nazis these days are looking more culturally mainstream than they used to be, maybe it's worth pointing out. Or maybe not. I wasn't saying the piece was genius, only that I didn't find it pandering

I agree. I don't know, I don't find it 'normalizing' per se.

I thought the atlantic piece on the Daily Stormer thing was more interesting though as far as 'peering into the heart of darkness' stories go.

unperson’s friend OTM

btw it is extraordinarily naive to think that blacks and Latinos can’t be racist against their own census categories.

I mean, there are clearly 8% and 29% who absolutely are, respectively

The form is very familiar to me from the Balkans. It was rampant during the 1990s: Karadzic gave interviews to Western media every other day, there’s hours of footage. In the meantime, he was murdering thousands. But hey, dead Bosnians are so “other” and his English was great.

— Jasmin Mujanović (@JasminMuj) November 26, 2017

short 'thread'

re the nazi thang

How many times can America reach "rock bottom"? Apparently as often as it can lose its innocence. https://t.co/v5z9u4xUvb

— corey robin (@CoreyRobin) November 27, 2017

Old news, but I'm not sure Tom Cotton's peerless wingnut credentials will mean he'll get the Trump voters, who got a demographic-busting amount of people interested (to the point of voting) partly because he's famous.

I’m confused. I admit I was being obtuse with my phrasing but what did you think I meant?

― El Tomboto, Sunday, November 26, 2017 11:50 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

identifying things that are black with being unreflective/stupid.

so many comments on evangelicals ignore black evangelicals. I don't think you were going for the racism that I saw initially but it hit a point to which I'm attuned

'this is what today's Nazi looks like'
Counterpoint: who gives a fuck?

― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 27 November 2017 04:46 (eight hours ago) Permalink

i do. it seems like an obvious thing to report on in 2017. nazis have roared back into pubic awareness; people are curious about who they are.

I'd be ok with a list of names. Not sure I need anything more.

it's the ladies' home journal tone that cooked their goose here imo

idk. i liked "eichmann in jerusalem." i thought it was instructive to see that a person can appear normal in some spheres of his life but, given the right conditions and incentives, be an absolute monster.

i don't need to think of nazis as cartoon villains in order to know that they're bad. the thing that's bad about them is their belief system, which isn't always on display as they navigate society.

Don't we know about 'the banality of evil' by now though? How many stories about lawn mowing, grocery shopping, calling their mum once a week nazi's do we need?

it's the tone.

Eichmann in Jerusalem is a fairly different thing from that shitty NYT article.

xp Absolutely.

I like The Man Without Qualities. Doesn't mean I want a gushing article about any Franz Joseph Fan Club.

The banality of the banality of evil

that said, i am one of those who DO need to see the Nazis as cartoon villains in order to know they're bad. because i am simple-minded and dim.

i thought it was instructive to see that a person can appear normal in some spheres of his life but, given the right conditions and incentives, be an absolute monster.

Did you read it when you were eight? Or was there some reason that this was something you needed to be "instructed" about as an adult?

Exactly. And there's also a difference I think between retroactively determining how almost an entire country became complicit in a historic mass racist genocide vs. profiling some shithead outlier in America. I mean, there are plenty of racists in America, who cares about the handful that are stupid and misguided enough to actually identify as Nazis? I don't give a shit about them. I care more (but still not much) about people who don't identify as Nazis and claim not to be racist but still enable those strains of belief. The failing of this piece is not focusing on the factor that make this dude different: that is, his explicit declared allegiance to an irrational ideology of hate. If you're not gong to dive into why he's one of the few to actually identify as a Nazi and Nazi beliefs, then why bother?

xpost

Not ~ entirely ~ convinced Treeship 2 isn't actually Treeship tbh

t2 not as loosey goosey imo

Treeship of Theseus, imo

Treeship of Fools

Treeship of Theseus, imo

― Frederik B, Monday, November 27, 2017 8:21 AM (seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is pretty good

people get killed in
the result of treeshipbuilding

second coming of treeshus sheist

Since the first day I took office, all you hear is the phony Democrat excuse for losing the election, Russia, Russia,Russia. Despite this I have the economy booming and have possibly done more than any 10 month President. MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 26, 2017

well it's about time they started smearing mueller

http://www.newsweek.com/robert-mueller-special-counsel-russia-aides-criticize-722670

he is the jan brady of presidents (xpost)

There you have it, he's a 10-month president. No need for all those other months.

Time for him to pack his bags

"possibly done more"

Well I’d be surprised if the rancid little fucker could spell Cambridge Analytica on first try.

We should have a contest as to which of the Networks, plus CNN and not including Fox, is the most dishonest, corrupt and/or distorted in its political coverage of your favorite President (me). They are all bad. Winner to receive the FAKE NEWS TROPHY!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 27, 2017

oh cool he still remembers his Apprentice days!

"your favorite President (me)." strong contender for next month's thread title