Star Wars 8 shit talk

i'm not interested in snoke's life history but it's kind of funny that they don't even try to sketch out one. you know like some line where he's like "while you squandered the access to jedi lore that skywalker foolishly gave you, i had to build myself up from nothing through the sheer power of the dark side!!!!" or something.

yeah that's still more than the emperor got, but in that case, we hadn't seen any backstory before that so a couple of lines of dialogue vaguely establishing that there used to be a republic and it's gone now and darth vader helped some guy called the emperor hunt down and destroy the jedi knights is basically all you need. and he shows up and his deal is he's an evil wizard who likes being evil and your imagination can sorta fill in the gaps - must be some evil force guy that took over the galaxy and turned vader to evil or something, cool. also it was a brilliantly hammy performance by mcdiarmid, relishing every spitty syllable of hatred, so that gave you enough for your imagination to find it interesting to even fool around with this.

anyway here we're coming in with a clear sense that the bad guys were all beaten at the end of 'jedi.' but i guess they weren't. and there was another evil wizard hiding in a barn somewhere. the fans wanting it to be bib fortuna or whoever were insane and clearly derive satisfaction from the wrong kinds of things in movies, but it IS a little weird to just drop in this new mega bad guy with no clear sense at all of who he is and what he wants. also he had a stupid name. the terrible name probably contributed to the dumb fan theories since it makes it seem more like an alias for someone else. if he'd been onscreen and not CGI in TFA nobody would have really gotten into speculating over his backstory i think - people would have gone "i guess we have to accept this arbitrary new emperor type guy the same way we have to accept that this new empire-from-scratch already has a death planet - it's a reboot ugh so it goes."

I think Snoke getting short shrift kinda proved he wasn't fit to lick the Emperor's shoes. yeah, he had impressive power, but lacked the discipline that allowed the Emperor to last as long as he did (I mean hell the dude had the patience to let a decade-long plan unfold without leaking his true intentions to anybody but the one guy he wanted to leak it to). Snoke was impatient and wanted results quicker and figured he could get there easily by bullying his apprentice and assuming it would just roll off his back, hence why he got bested by him so easily (well, that and force premonitions seem to always be misinterpreted by the person interpreting them).

Timothy Zahn made quite a living writing about Empire-sympathizers picking up the mantle afterwards. I guess there always has to be war cos nobody is interested in "Star Peacetime"

that a supreme evil force dude is super comfortable lounging around in that bathrobe is all the backstory you need.
come to think of it all the force users are wearing some kind of bathrobe...

Snoke was probably some old racist grandpa that used some kind of Force-steroids to get really buff with the Dark Side real quick

Snoke was an old racist grandpa who got force crazy off dong pills

he also nearly ruined the first order by plowing most of their savings into gold reserves

SNOKE = RON PAUL

Doc, i love u man but if they put half as much backstory in this as you want it’d be called The Phantom Menace

DO NOT WISH FOR THESE THINGS
YOU DO NOT WANT TO SIT THROUGH THEM
YOU ONLY THINK YOU DO

imo long-plotting emperor having a longer lifespan despite seeming less powerful in the force compared to blaze of glory Snoke is a good life lesson for despots

Snoke also seemed to do less cackling and more chuckling, also had a sweet gold robe. dude fucking loved this shut, Emperor was too austere and just wanted power

(insert horrible picture of Gaddafi wearing a gold outfit at a concert he paid a few million for)

Nice analysis of why it was better not to have a Snake back story:

https://qntm.org/mystery

best things that no one has mentioned yet:
- benicio del toro’s Tyler Durden impression
- force anus
- rebellion run by a bunch of old lesbians

When Rey is sitting holding the two halves of the lightsaber, I like that you can see the crystal inside.

On the 2nd viewing, the two times when i has strong emotional reactions was once during the Canto Bight sequence. The 2nd was later during the slo-mo shots where Rey grabs the lit saber, stands up to look shocked at Kylo, we cut to his reaction and lighting his saber offscreen(but you see the glow and hear the ignition), then we cut to them turning to fight back-to-back and the shutter speeds revs back to normal.

I had such this overriding impulse to yell “oh shit here we go here we go HERE WE GO.”

Would Adam Driver have gotten more credit or accolades for his work in the films had not his previous major credit been that particular TV show?

Also, some of the reviews had people complaining about “I don’t know where they go after this ending,” which isn’t a problem in the least for me, except that I don’t exactly hold a lot of faith for the guy getting the reins of the show again.

Both Gareth Edwards and Rian Johnson did massive amounts of work to expand the cinematic palette of a SW film and I hold little-to-no faith that JJA can successfully follow up on that, but we got two years to wait, so we’ll see.

And I think we’ve talked about this either last year or the one before, but I am quite fine with Star Wars being a Christmas thing. If you’re of a certain age, it always was a Christmas thing(despite the OT being released in May), so this feels proper.

Snoke dead without being explained as to why he was so important and powerful

again, this is good

Both Gareth Edwards and Rian Johnson did massive amounts of work to expand the cinematic palette of a SW film

possibly too much in edwards' case, given how much rogue one got fucked with by disney prior to release

which makes me wonder again exactly how off-brand miller and lord's han solo movie was gonna be

(my main argument with my niece afterwards was that chewie was obviously keeping them to eat later, she said no but she is wrong)

Thank you, Mark S. I have texted my 11yo with this theory, I look forward to the barrage of appalled emojis in response.

(My 12yo really struggles with all the death and destruction in these films - she was curling up behind my arm early on as all the bombers broke up).

Snoke was a pointless waste of time in TFA and didn't really do anything in TLJ either. That they might have fucked up his backstory as well - which they definitely would - does not make it better.

snoke was dead on arrival in TFA, i'm glad he went away

this movie and blade runner 2048 both feature far too much inconsequential talking by baddies in bathrobes

http://www.hermitary.com/literature/moomin/muskrat-05.jpg

Finally saw this! It feels a bit messy, but I liked it more than TFA.

Daisy Ridley is so great throughout and I loved that Rey’s parents are nobodies. Also really liked the little nod to this at the very end (which I’m glad I’d been told to look out for, cos it’s quick).

Skellig Michael looks stunning throughout. I’ll probably never get to see it now with all the SW visitors.

I still shamefully fancy Kylo Ren, even though he continues to be a complete mess.

Poe was AWFUL like he got so many people killed and just demotion? I really liked Rose’s sister in her scene and it made me dislike Poe even more.

Kylo Ren giving an order on Craik and then Hux basically screaming the same order, and Kylo’s sideways look, really amused me. As did Benicio peering at BB-8 and going “what’s your story, roundie?”

I really liked Kelly Marie Tran! I liked the casino part more than a lot of people even though it’s incredibly pointless. I hope they give Finn more to do in IX though.

rebellion run by a bunch of old lesbians

ARE Rey's parents nobodies? We seem to be taking that at face value. Of course it's all moot anyway if each film's individual story can be changed from the preceeeding film according to whoever is directing. JJ could decide, in fact has probably decided over the Xmas weekend, that she's somehow related to Ben Kenobi or some shit.

ugh

Poe was AWFUL like he got so many people killed and just demotion?

The Poe/Holdo stuff is what bugs me the most tbh

We seem to be taking that at face value.

Rey’s face when Kylo Ren is telling her she knows it sold it for me, tbh. That and her being her own parents means it doesn’t mean much if there’s some stupid retcon. The whole point is that she is who she made herself to be, she’s not bound by a legacy or a bloodline.

aw c'mon y'all, i said snoke coulda had ONE line of dialogue that points to a deliberately vague backstory! heck it could even be two lines and you're done with all you need to know about snoke: blah blah i'm a nobody who built myself up with the power of the dark side, then: "if not for the direction and purpose i gave you, your 'first order' would still be a few scattered regiments holding up transports in the outer rim!" or whatever. point is you can write dialogue that tells us a little bit about the characters and how they know each other and why they're working together, while simultaneously signposting "this is all you need to know about this." there is a huge gulf between that and devoting three movies to vader and obi-wan's boring backstory. original star wars did this very efficiently and evocatively between obi-wan, tarkin, and the beru and owen stuff about luke wanting to go off to the academy. the same lines that sketch in the world and the power dynamics also give us emotional hooks - who we're empathizing with, who's an evil bastard we hate, etc.

TFA created the problem because it wrote snoke the way you'd write him if his identity was intended to be a reveal, leading to the dumb speculation as well as a slight (though hardly fatal) sense of a missed beat when we get to TLJ. that's all i'm sayin here.

Both Gareth Edwards and Rian Johnson did massive amounts of work to expand the cinematic palette of a SW film

possibly too much in edwards' case, given how much rogue one got fucked with by disney prior to release

everything I've read about the production of Rogue One, as well as Edwards' career to date, makes me think he basically had no idea what was he doing

"if not for the direction and purpose i gave you, your 'first order' would still be a few scattered regiments holding up transports in the outer rim!"

This...would not be so good.

i mean i came up with it in thirty seconds. but that KIND of line, y'know, that just tells us wtf their relationship is. i mean he's the "supreme leader" - did hux get convinced this guy was the rightful fuhrer? get manipulated into pumping him up in the cult of personality? did he START the first order? who are these guys and why are they working together?

and along the way it m/l precludes the red herring of snoke's identity/origin mattering, beyond whatever's established in the line.

i sorted filled in the two lines myself, in my own head! i think it went something like "i'm a big ugly baddie and i'm in charge because i am uglier and more ruthless than the rest of you put together!"

Yeah, I mean...what more do you need?

he's a boring character and he's onscreen a lot, i think part of that is because he's vague and feels unreal. i think sketching in just an eense of what his deal is might make all his scenes feel more interesting and thus improve the film. ymmv!

But he's not onscreen a lot! Three quick holographic appearances over two movies, plus two throne room scenes, one of which is basically him taking a few lines to tell Kylo his mask looks stupid.

that's a lot!

also as with my proposed improvements to hux's ranting speeches, he's already talking anyway, just the lines only do one job at a time. just weave in a little more implied story and i'm good idk. y'all think star wars would be better and less stimulative to the imagination without tarkin's "the emperor has dissolved the senate" or the beru/owen "academy" stuff?

Five scenes of a total nothing character is five scenes too many

Snoke is awful

yeah Snoke's the obvious total washout of the 2 last films, no one finds him remotely scary and the cgi will date to
Jabba-on-the-special-edition level soon enough

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/93DzOXD_91o/maxresdefault.jpg

you don't think you get snoke
what do you do

I think it's all there in the very beginning -- the Emperor dissolved the senate, the Empire was a strongman fascist and anyone competent who would toe the line, and most of the really competent ones were killed with him. The only thing that'd hold together the remnants of the Empire -- which lost bureaucratic legitimacy, and now exists purely as a strong military force, would be the most compelling strongman to step in

feel like this debate between people who say “it would be nice if we knew a thing or two about a major character” and “actually it’s great that we know nothing about him” has reached an impasse

turns out he wasn't so major

feel like this debate between people who say “it would be nice if we knew a thing or two about a major character” and “actually it’s great that we know nothing about him” has reached an impasse

― k3vin k., Thursday, December 28, 2017 10:55 AM (six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

oh boy i guess we better stop

great posts by doc casino on this subject even if i don’t necessarily agree

Snoke was Ezra Bridger from the Rebels cartoon. Surprising, but that's how it shook out.

andy serkis should be banned from movies. just my opinion

thanks brad. i mean in the end what they did is fine but only because TLJ came up with a nice scene for snoke to get offed in, where the character matters in terms of choices made by other more important characters. that basically just makes him into a new Count Dooku which isn't so hot but before that he was a new General Grievous so hey.

i also think it would have been fine/better to not have him at all, since the kylo/hux dynamic is already enough to generate an interesting bad-guy team dynamic. vader/tarkin but as seething unhinged man-children wannabes, one consumed by father-killing hatreds and the other by father-redeeming fascist fantasies of imposing order, with no sense that either is taking orders from someone else. plenty of great tensions there waiting to crack open - you don't really need snoke. and it would have been another, too-rare way in which TFA wasn't just a retread of the old film. oh well.