feel like if you're thinking about a comedian's "baseline ability to recognize/acknowledge the general concept of intersectionality", comedy just isn't for you
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Friday, January 5, 2018 4:50 PM (thirty-three minutes ago)
if you're going to tackle these issues in your standup, there is an expectation that you've given some serious thought to it. if he has nothing of substance to say, talk about something else
― k3vin k., Friday, 5 January 2018 22:25 (six years ago) link
people have been bringing a lot of expectations to stand up as of late
― mag gerwig! (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 5 January 2018 22:26 (six years ago) link
times have changed, dad
― k3vin k., Friday, 5 January 2018 22:27 (six years ago) link
yes, as evidenced by the arenas of people in every city walking out en masse when Chappelle tells a joke about transgender ppl
― mag gerwig! (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 5 January 2018 22:29 (six years ago) link
Also, Jordan otm
clearly, by choosing to focus on caitlyn jenner in these jokes, he has failed to acknowledge intersectionality
― Scatperson (ski-ba-bop-ba-dop-whore.) (Sufjan Grafton), Friday, 5 January 2018 22:32 (six years ago) link
that said as sufjan mentioned the first hour was not awful -- he definitely makes some interesting points about being a black man watching the world suddenly appear to make an effort to treat women, gays, transgender people etc with the respect they're due and feeling forgotten about. but every almost-interesting point he makes is sandwiched by the sort of shit you might see on redial
xps
― k3vin k., Friday, 5 January 2018 22:32 (six years ago) link
chapelle def gets ilxors to turn gamergater in a way no one else can
― Joan Digimon (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 5 January 2018 22:41 (six years ago) link
i don't think my expectations personally of chappelle have changed... but his act certainly has. if he wants to do sets that don't constantly orbit around and return to trans issues then i have no problem putting my expectations regarding his understanding of intersectionality aside.
― J0rdan S., Friday, 5 January 2018 22:41 (six years ago) link
the whole trans bit in the first ep seemed like the Louis ep coming to terms with "f****t" thing except Chappelle still doesn't totally get what he's doing wrong
― mag gerwig! (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 5 January 2018 22:46 (six years ago) link
also it's not like he's just telling jokes about trans people. he is laying out an ideology and trying to convince people to see the world the way he sees it using humor as just one tool. he's trying to engage in a dialogue about this stuff, as evidenced by the fact that he has a whole section in one of these specials where he responds to a fan letter about his trans jokes. the "it's just stand up bruv" thing doesn't really fly for me in this case.
― J0rdan S., Friday, 5 January 2018 22:50 (six years ago) link
yeah I think that gets to the heart of the issue -- with louis CK's comedy you felt like he "got it", even if he sometimes took a questionable route to get there. but with chappelle's recent stuff it's clear he has a ways to go, or is maybe just not a good person
(not that CK, obviously, is a model of morality)
xp
― k3vin k., Friday, 5 January 2018 22:51 (six years ago) link
also jordan otm
the other issue was that there were just not that many funny moments!
this shit is so tiresome. don't you get tired of it? it's tiresome
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Friday, 5 January 2018 22:54 (six years ago) link
yeah jord otm, dave doesn’t seem to be wrestling with the issue or coming to terms so much as just mining his own ignorance for comedy
― Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 5 January 2018 22:55 (six years ago) link
I imagine that Dave Chappelle, having collected so much data by now, has a very good idea of what will make most people laugh. And his audience is "most people." So I doubt that everything he says on stage reflects his full range of thinking or even his best thinking on a topic. What comes out on stage is probably more like an image of "most people" passed through a Dave Chappelle filter. and if he puts too much of himself in it, he'll no longer be a comedian for "most people." Ideally, he tries to give them a world view they can subscribe to that is at least slightly better than the current mean with confidence that those above the mean are smart enough not to regress. that will require recognizing some limitations of the medium.
― Scatperson (ski-ba-bop-ba-dop-whore.) (Sufjan Grafton), Friday, 5 January 2018 22:56 (six years ago) link
oh well we must force him to wrestle with the issue or he gets no dessert, straight to bed for him
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Friday, 5 January 2018 22:57 (six years ago) link
it's definitely true that the current climate makes things harder on comedians: the low-lying fruit, the jokes that wrote themselves about easy targets, now seem to require a lot more care. but that is a problem for comedians to solve, not for audiences to accommodate
― k3vin k., Friday, 5 January 2018 22:59 (six years ago) link
anyway I doubt chappelle cares that much, he seems like a pretty miserable person and is very rich! and if these two specials indicate anything he is pretty happy at this stage in his career to collect his checks
― k3vin k., Friday, 5 January 2018 23:00 (six years ago) link
that whole post checks out
― Chocolate-covered gummy bears? Not ruling those lil' guys out. (ulysses), Friday, 5 January 2018 23:01 (six years ago) link
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Friday, January 5, 2018 4:57 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
speaking of tiresome
― Joan Digimon (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 5 January 2018 23:01 (six years ago) link
what a horrible person he does things for money
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 5 January 2018 23:01 (six years ago) link
he usually brings up how rich he is in the context of intersectionality!
― Scatperson (ski-ba-bop-ba-dop-whore.) (Sufjan Grafton), Friday, 5 January 2018 23:04 (six years ago) link
god I sure hope I'm tiresome to you sanctimonious fucks
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Friday, 5 January 2018 23:07 (six years ago) link
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Friday, January 5, 2018 5:57 PM (seven minutes ago) Bookmark
nobody is forcing or even asking dave chappelle to wrestle with trans issues? it's his choice, and he's getting paid an insane amount of money to do so. your expectations for both him and yourself seem pretty low honestly.
― J0rdan S., Friday, 5 January 2018 23:07 (six years ago) link
actually on the contrary i would prefer to turn on a dave chappelle special and not hear him wrestle with trans stuff. but if he's going to then...
― J0rdan S., Friday, 5 January 2018 23:08 (six years ago) link
― J0rdan S., Friday, January 5, 2018 3:08 PM (six seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yeah basically this exactly where I'm coming from. his trans bits in the last round of netflix specials were just really 4chan or someone's racist uncle at the xmas dinner table level stuff: dead-naming, using the slur trannies repeatedly - and then when trying to be less offensive for a second or two saying "transgendered" (which is also incorrect which chapelle would know if he gave two shits) - and talking about dicks etc. it's not funny, it's not thoughtful, and it's bigoted. i hope this shit is going age horrendously and the next generations will look back and think "woah early 21st century people were into some really offensive shit" but, i dunno, that's probably too optimistic
― khat person (jim in vancouver), Friday, 5 January 2018 23:13 (six years ago) link
comedians tend to want things both ways (i think CK and Stewart were super bad about this) it's like they love being treated as big important artists -- Chapelle's Block Party was completely designed to cast him as a cultural icon -- and little philosophers, but then when people push back it's like "Hey hey hey I'm just a comedian don't listen to me I'm just jokin' around!" (in fairness I'm probably projecting some of my ire at Stewart on to Chapelle here but I think it's true of both)
― Joan Digimon (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 5 January 2018 23:23 (six years ago) link
xp yeah, but his reaction to that belongs in an apology (which is where he put it) and not next year's special. as a reaction, he could have transformed into mike birbiglia. but the people who like mike birbiglia already have mike birbiglia, and he will leave some of his audience behind by becoming mike birbiglia. you could take the negative view that he doesn't want to lose that audience because he wants there money. you could take a more optimistic view that he loves that audience, is loyal to them, and wants to bring them along as his thinking evolves.
― Scatperson (ski-ba-bop-ba-dop-whore.) (Sufjan Grafton), Friday, 5 January 2018 23:28 (six years ago) link
*their money obv
― J0rdan S., Friday, January 5, 2018 6:08 PM (thirty-eight minutes ago)
this!!!
― k3vin k., Friday, 5 January 2018 23:48 (six years ago) link
― Scatperson (ski-ba-bop-ba-dop-whore.) (Sufjan Grafton), Friday, January 5, 2018 3:28 PM (fifteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
chapelle was never a particularly offensive or transgressive comedian before this comeback iirc and there's a large distance between being grossly transphobic and being a milquetoast bore like birbiglia.
― khat person (jim in vancouver), Friday, 5 January 2018 23:48 (six years ago) link
yeah it’s not exactly stay in yr lane but maybe just don’t shit on a whole section of the population just to make hay out of how you don’t “get” themunless you are making fun of how dumb you are for even bringing it up idk
― Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 6 January 2018 00:06 (six years ago) link
In my friend group if someone says, like, "cis," there are some major blank looks. They look to guys like Chappelle and Norm MacDonald -- or Bill Maher or Joe Rogan, etc. -- to weigh in: Is this just political correctness run amok, taken to an absurd extreme, or is it a worthwhile idea to differentiate between the sex you're born with and the gender you express? They don't know a trans person irl. And when Chappelle says that the answer is that trans people are gross and that it's appropriate to make fun of them, that a trans woman is just a confused guy, that Caitlyn is inherently Bruce, that these issues are a bit silly, it has a pretty major effect on a lot of people and their thinking. It's irrelevant that it's coming from a comedian. Coming from a respected public figure the idea has incredible currency.
And when it's coming from Nick Di Paolo I think, "This is basically what this guy has always been preaching" and I roll my eyes. But with Chappelle it feels like his heart has shrunk a little bit, that the guy who wanted to throw the block party doesn't necessarily want everyone to come anymore.
― reggae mike love (polyphonic), Saturday, 6 January 2018 00:23 (six years ago) link
^^^ ding ding dingthis exactly
― Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 6 January 2018 00:27 (six years ago) link
yep
good to remember not to project our values onto the people we admire
― k3vin k., Saturday, 6 January 2018 00:29 (six years ago) link
did you just yep your ding ding?
― Scatperson (ski-ba-bop-ba-dop-whore.) (Sufjan Grafton), Saturday, 6 January 2018 00:33 (six years ago) link
good post polyphonic
also i dunno aside from those concerns, like transphobic stuff like caitlyn jenner shit just seems so lame and old fashioned like some fuckin hacky jay leno monologue from 1998 or some shit, like just beneath someone of chapelle's talents
― Joan Digimon (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 6 January 2018 01:00 (six years ago) link
I somehow thought k3vin wrote polyphonic's post
― Scatperson (ski-ba-bop-ba-dop-whore.) (Sufjan Grafton), Saturday, 6 January 2018 01:25 (six years ago) link
yeah I was wondering how to respond to that, haha. all good
― k3vin k., Saturday, 6 January 2018 01:31 (six years ago) link
how can anyone even think about anything he's saying when his jacket choices continue to be so weirdly ill-fitting
the guy cannot not wear weird clothes
― del griffith, Saturday, 6 January 2018 01:50 (six years ago) link
i just kept staring at the e-cig and the real cigs in both specials. it's all i could look at. it makes me nervous when people hold cigarettes and don't smoke them for some reason. and when people just hold an unlit cigarette and take four years to light it while they're talking. but that's just me. and, yeah, that big C jacket was lame.
― scott seward, Saturday, 6 January 2018 15:55 (six years ago) link
not sure i understood exactly how his pimp parable at the end of Bird Rev pertains to him or the audience or comedy central(?) or hollywood or anything really
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Friday, January 5, 2018 1:31 PM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I took it to imply that capitalism will wring every bit of humanity out of you, so he got out while he could
I thought the new ones were mostly bad, especially the second one which didn’t have any laughs and was basically appalling. he tries to houdini his way out of some pretty ugly setups, and to his credit it almost works a couple of times, but what he has to offer is not really worth an hour’s time in 2018. he’s a sad old man
― k3vin k., Friday, January 5, 2018 3:49 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i disagree. i took it as him saying he was the bottom to the coldblooded culture industry's pimp -- a powerful explanation for why he quit his show
― reggie (qualmsley), Saturday, 6 January 2018 15:58 (six years ago) link
yeah i considered both of those but still wasn't really sure
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Saturday, 6 January 2018 16:03 (six years ago) link
briefly considered that maybe he even meant he's Iceberg and the audience is the bottom but tbh i was pretty high when i watched it
― constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Saturday, 6 January 2018 16:05 (six years ago) link
the first one is pretty good overallthe second one is really...off... like borderline not even a comedy special
― Joan Digimon (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 6 January 2018 22:59 (six years ago) link
I fell asleep during the third one 3 nights in a row. Think I have 4 minutes left. Might not finish it cos it wasn’t v funny. Think Between the 4 new specials there’s prob like 45 mins worth of p good material
― Spottie, Saturday, 6 January 2018 23:15 (six years ago) link
i watched both of these and... yeah... he says some rough stuff. now i'm not gonna be surprised if people get upset at the new stuff. it seems like he is pretty critical of the #metoo movement and at times more than a little cruel towards victims imo. but i still think he has the right to say what is on his mind and to expect otherwise seems counterproductive. there shouldn't be an expectation for him to suddenly discard a life's worth of behaviors and socially ingrained belief systems and become an expert in this one ideology. there is value in letting an old fart say what is on his mind and have people publicly say "We don't care if you were a hero you can't get away w that and here is why"
he is from an older era and is using these older reference points. like that Pimp book seems like a very 70's civil rights, something that will immediately trigger a modern audience. i don't think this is intentional and this is just a book he was aware of through his older cultural touchstones and thought was relevant. cos he saw the Weinstein stuff as the same thing these pimps were doing. the pimp had used the money to pay off all of the enablers that helped him break this already broken woman. all the money that was only being made due to the hard work of the exploited woman. Hollywood is pimps seems to be what he is saying.
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Saturday, 6 January 2018 23:52 (six years ago) link
xpost yeah he also just seems really... lazy and disengaged a lot of times like the final one there are so many times when he just seems to be rambling only sort of making semi gestures towards actual jokes or bits
― Joan Digimon (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 7 January 2018 03:01 (six years ago) link