No one necessarily believes the pee tape is real, as a fact, but several other aspects of the dossier have been verified, and were taken seriously enough at the start to get this whole thing rolling. To deny the dossier outright is akin to denying the findings of the entire intelligence community.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, January 22, 2018 5:26 PM (twenty-six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Empire Burl Ives (Hadrian VIII), Monday, 22 January 2018 22:55 (six years ago) link
xp because it directly benefitted one of our two political parties, the one most concerned with holding power above the security and well-being of the nation. to acknowledge it would be to appear illegitimate. there's literally no consequence to just denying everything.
― frogbs, Monday, 22 January 2018 22:56 (six years ago) link
It's concerning! We don't know the scope of what happened yet. Was it bigger in effect than 'ordinary' GOP disenfranchisement? I don't know. xxp
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Monday, 22 January 2018 22:56 (six years ago) link
disenfranchisement tactics, that is.
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Monday, 22 January 2018 22:57 (six years ago) link
The amount of verifiable items in the dossier has risen to the level that a "pee tape" or something like it is more credible than not.
― Empire Burl Ives (Hadrian VIII), Monday, 22 January 2018 22:57 (six years ago) link
That it's also a stupid punchline has nothing to with the question of its factual basis
― Empire Burl Ives (Hadrian VIII), Monday, 22 January 2018 23:00 (six years ago) link
as much as I want to hope the pee tape is some sort of dues ex machina that could free us from all this let's not forget the President of the United States had an extramarital affair with a porn star who spanked him with a Forbes magazine and it was barely a story
― frogbs, Monday, 22 January 2018 23:05 (six years ago) link
Like, Trump's idiot lawyer set up a one-day LLC to pay a porn star hush money to keep an affair quiet. Anything is possible.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 22 January 2018 23:06 (six years ago) link
xpost Ha. Everything is possible with this piece of shit. There is literally nothing about him that would surprise me save proof that he has done none of the things people have said he's done. He is the human embodiment of the seven deadly sins.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 22 January 2018 23:08 (six years ago) link
Yeah who knows what the revelation would mean politically, but it's hardly some kind of outlandish notion.
Nobody believes the president wasn't surveilled. What exactly do people think he gets up to at night on these junkets, other than stuffing his fat face and screwing young women he pays for, either directly or with the promise of a TV appearance or a slot in his fucking beauty pageant? I mean, are we all talking about the same person??
― Empire Burl Ives (Hadrian VIII), Monday, 22 January 2018 23:17 (six years ago) link
"Oh no, pee tape! That's just beyond the pale!"
― Empire Burl Ives (Hadrian VIII), Monday, 22 January 2018 23:18 (six years ago) link
as if the KGB (and former KGB agents) wouldn't have taped floor to ceiling the hotel bathroom of such an archetypal vain and massively indebted (to them!) ugly american pig capitalist; if he's not on some sexxx tape i'd bet a good five rubles that at the very least there are image-demolishing pix of our elderly manchild POTUS with his '"hair" down' he's way too immature to begin to know how to effectively deal with
― reggie (qualmsley), Monday, 22 January 2018 23:24 (six years ago) link
Anyway reading that Glenn Simpson testimony and getting a window into his relationship with Steele and Steele's track record, his reputation for scrutiny and thoroughness, etc. gives me no reason to doubt anything they compiled (which obv. is not the same thing as saying it's all true.)
― Empire Burl Ives (Hadrian VIII), Monday, 22 January 2018 23:25 (six years ago) link
“Was it the sole cause of Trump winning?” doesn’t seem like a relevant question. I think most people get that when something’s that close there’s a lot you could realistically point to as tipping the scales. Much of the denialism seems like this really indirect way of expressing concern that the investigation will somehow be a threat to progressive causes which I can understand to a point but people like Glenn haven’t been great for the discourse on that though.
― Nerdstrom Poindexter, Monday, 22 January 2018 23:28 (six years ago) link
why would the investigation be a threat to progressive causes?
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 22 January 2018 23:36 (six years ago) link
If the Dems can impeach Trump on this then the party will see the 2016 election as the result of the GOP having “cheated” and no lessons will be learned along the lines of “hey maybe they should have run on fight for 15/stronger appeals to the base” etc.
― Nerdstrom Poindexter, Monday, 22 January 2018 23:56 (six years ago) link
r u serious
― Empire Burl Ives (Hadrian VIII), Tuesday, 23 January 2018 00:00 (six years ago) link
It's not about progressive causes, Greenwald doesn't give a shit about that. He is defensive because he himself spent the final part of the election pushing bullshit stories on Russian leaks.
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 23 January 2018 00:09 (six years ago) link
And in case people have forgotten, there were a lot of people back then going 'what are you doing? those emails were obviously hacked by Russians' but Greenwald refused to consider it. It was absolutely obvious, and he's banking on his denials at least creating confusion.
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 23 January 2018 00:18 (six years ago) link
It’s more of a line of thought you see pushed very frequently by let’s say people associated with “The Young Turks” or those who see themselves as on the left but who still stand by Greenwald. Greenwald’s own motives probably different.
― Nerdstrom Poindexter, Tuesday, 23 January 2018 00:19 (six years ago) link
are we really trying to do this to ourselves again
― fuck you, your hat is horrible (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 23 January 2018 00:23 (six years ago) link
"a win is really a loss" by BernieBros kinda how we got here
― fuck you, your hat is horrible (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 23 January 2018 00:24 (six years ago) link
Nommed that one for the trackpoll, hope it makes it in.
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 23 January 2018 00:25 (six years ago) link
lol
― fuck you, your hat is horrible (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 23 January 2018 00:27 (six years ago) link
― fuck you, your hat is horrible (Neanderthal), Monday, January 22, 2018 4:24 PM (five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
no we got here because john podesta clicked on a fishing link and anthony weiner's sex crimes gave comey an excuse to write a letter telling people not to vote for hilary like 6 days before the election
― khat person (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 23 January 2018 00:31 (six years ago) link
and also hilary was a bad candidate, ok logging off now bye!
I’m not sure how big that line of thinking is, my sense is the overwhelming majority of Bernie supporters would be thrilled to see the Trump admin go down. Bernie himself has always taken the investigation seriously.
― Nerdstrom Poindexter, Tuesday, 23 January 2018 00:33 (six years ago) link
xxpost
― Nerdstrom Poindexter, Tuesday, 23 January 2018 00:34 (six years ago) link
― louise ck (milo z), Tuesday, 23 January 2018 00:44 (six years ago) link
I think that is all irrelevant at this point. Trump could have beat Clinton by a legit 20%, but the stuff he or his campaign is being accused of doing remains illegal.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 23 January 2018 00:46 (six years ago) link
similarly, maybe Trump did nothing wrong, but interfering in an investigation or trying to cover stuff up is still illegal.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 23 January 2018 00:47 (six years ago) link
sure is funny how men love to complain about women
the turn this thread took at least explains to me why my self-proclaimed "liberal" lyft driver last week went from complaining about clinton and maddow to referring to the russian investigation a "soft coup" to calling the jfk assassination a "soft coup" to asking me if i knew about pizzagate
slippery fuckin slopes out there, be careful everyone
― maura, Tuesday, 23 January 2018 00:56 (six years ago) link
i gave him two stars btw
― maura, Tuesday, 23 January 2018 00:58 (six years ago) link
maria butina . . . reality has become a two star thomas pynchon novel
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/campaign-finance-russia-funneling-dark-money-trump-nra
― reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 23 January 2018 02:41 (six years ago) link
Didn't basically the same number or more of Bernie voters go for Hillary in the general than Hillary voters for Obama?
Based on this and this, the number who defected to the GOP was less: 6-12% of Sanders voters vs about 24% of Clinton voters in 2008.
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Tuesday, 23 January 2018 03:07 (six years ago) link
Not sure how many just stayed home, though.
Can I just say again how nuts it is that really not a week, let alone a day, has gone by without a barrage of Trump/Russia investigation revelations? Not not a single closed door, just more and more open doors, more and more acts, more and more individuals. It's really crazy.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 23 January 2018 03:27 (six years ago) link
yup it is
― Empire Burl Ives (Hadrian VIII), Tuesday, 23 January 2018 03:39 (six years ago) link
https://newrepublic.com/article/146725/glenn-greenwalds-women
this is a good piece
Like Reed, I don’t think Greenwald is entirely wrong on the Russian story. I’m grateful he rails against the demonization of those with views outside the mainstream consensus, especially on Syria and Ukraine. Greenwald is right that the focus on Russia has led to some embarrassing false stories, not to mention an alarmist treatment of initial cyberprobes (the likes of which the United States itself does all the time) as full-blown attacks on the United States. Like Greenwald, I think MSNBC’s lefty-focused programs have become an information bubble (though it is nowhere near as bad as Fox News). Like Greenwald, I believe the focus on Russia’s nefariousness has distracted from America’s own sins, such as the centuries of racism that allowed a figure like Donald Trump to thrive and a well-funded, right-wing propaganda machine that did far more to elect Trump than a Russian troll factory in Saint Petersburg. And I worry that the focus on Russia will distract Trump’s opponents from more tangible actions to combat him.But unlike Greenwald I have no doubt that Russia launched a successful attack on the United States in 2016. Indeed, I’m of the opinion that if special counsel Robert Mueller is permitted to pursue all angles of this operation, we’ll learn the damage was worse than most people imagine. I say that, in part, because I believe the Shadow Brokers persona was a part of the operation, working in tandem with Russian-backed hackers who stole emails from the Democratic National Committee. Shadow Brokers had previously released a slew of NSA hacking tools that were then integrated into global malware like WannaCry and NotPetya, which together did hundreds of millions of dollars of damage to Western companies and hurt the NSA’s ability to respond to the Russian operation.
But unlike Greenwald I have no doubt that Russia launched a successful attack on the United States in 2016. Indeed, I’m of the opinion that if special counsel Robert Mueller is permitted to pursue all angles of this operation, we’ll learn the damage was worse than most people imagine. I say that, in part, because I believe the Shadow Brokers persona was a part of the operation, working in tandem with Russian-backed hackers who stole emails from the Democratic National Committee. Shadow Brokers had previously released a slew of NSA hacking tools that were then integrated into global malware like WannaCry and NotPetya, which together did hundreds of millions of dollars of damage to Western companies and hurt the NSA’s ability to respond to the Russian operation.
― khat person (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 23 January 2018 19:47 (six years ago) link
I think extrapolating bullshit like this is how we got here.
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 23 January 2018 19:50 (six years ago) link
Voters believe crazy shit like Pizzagate? GET SMARTER VOTERS
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 23 January 2018 19:51 (six years ago) link
That Wheeler piece is good.
― Nerdstrom Poindexter, Tuesday, 23 January 2018 20:13 (six years ago) link
It’s excellent, as is the Hennessey quote:
Hennessey said, “I find the stuff that’s text- and evidence-based interesting (both for and against the notion there’s something to it).” She contrasted that with what she described as “surface commentary,” which she called ”a waste of time.” She judged, “I haven’t seen Greenwald produce anything in the former category.”
It’s a jab at Greenwald but also applies to 98% of the reporting on the issue. I don’t agree with Wheeler all the time but she is putting in more good work than most other people combined.
― Wag1 Shree Rajneesh (ShariVari), Tuesday, 23 January 2018 20:19 (six years ago) link
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, January 23, 2018 2:50 PM (thirty minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Empire Burl Ives (Hadrian VIII), Tuesday, 23 January 2018 20:21 (six years ago) link
"surface commentary" is a great way of describing like 98% of the internet
― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 23 January 2018 21:23 (six years ago) link
(he said)
i was actually replying to the defeatism of saying the Dems taking back Congress in midterms would be a bad thing but ok guys
― fuck you, your hat is horrible (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 23 January 2018 22:17 (six years ago) link
regardless of what one thinks of underlying substance, net effect of West's Russia scare is playing out as- Massive military increases- Total end to any domestic spying reforms- Rebranding of Bush & ex-Bush officials- Tighter control of information flows (to stop "fake news")— Adam H. Johnson (@adamjohnsonNYC) January 23, 2018
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 23 January 2018 22:44 (six years ago) link
it's sad how russia inquiry smashed trump's plan to overturn the gop/usa governing model, cause it was gonna be a total shocka
― Hunt3r, Tuesday, 23 January 2018 22:48 (six years ago) link
"regardless of what one thinks of underlying substance," what a fucking weasel
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 23 January 2018 22:54 (six years ago) link