favorite thing about the movie: its fascination and disgust with the color green
But I couldn't get past a lot of violence in the movie. I never got over the dead cat, and Shannon is so unnecessarily sadistic he seemed pumped in from a different film (or Boardwalk Empire, since he was playing almost the exact same character, and his character was the worst thing about that show)
― Evan R, Monday, 29 January 2018 15:36 (six years ago) link
The sadism, yes, was revolting and unnecessary.
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 29 January 2018 15:38 (six years ago) link
dead cat bummed me out :\
― ian, Monday, 29 January 2018 15:43 (six years ago) link
I didn't realize there were two cats so was super confused when the cat was suddenly alive.
― Yerac, Monday, 29 January 2018 15:59 (six years ago) link
I was also confused about what aquadong did with the eggs.
― Yerac, Monday, 29 January 2018 16:00 (six years ago) link
things that would have caused the MPAA to require a harsher rating
― fuck you, your hat is horrible (Neanderthal), Monday, 29 January 2018 16:01 (six years ago) link
Just read this film as "Amelie on PCP" and you'll have more fun
― davey, Monday, 29 January 2018 19:59 (six years ago) link
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, January 29, 2018 10:38 AM (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
The nudity and bean-flicking and fish-fucking was unnecessary too, tbh. You could have 100% told this story in a PG movie
― somebody toucha my fgti (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 29 January 2018 20:06 (six years ago) link
no way, i thought the way they portrayed masturbation and female sexuality as everyday / part of her daily routine was refreshing. also by the time that she has sex with the monster you totally buy into it, it's not ridiculous at all, at least imo. it was still a very sweet and moving love story that included sexuality and wasn't 'obscene' or particularly graphic. i thought that was really important and cool.
― flappy bird, Monday, 29 January 2018 20:09 (six years ago) link
Cosign. Why does nudity terrify people? Hollywood could do with some more sex positivity like this.
― davey, Monday, 29 January 2018 21:00 (six years ago) link
At least in this case it was used for character exposition, so not gratuitous imo
― davey, Monday, 29 January 2018 21:01 (six years ago) link
Yerac obviously a cat-hater irl, to not notice the wide range of felines adorning Jenkins' apartment
― Haribo Hancock (sic), Monday, 29 January 2018 21:05 (six years ago) link
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, January 29, 2018 9:38 AM (six hours ago) Bookmark
this was my mom's complaintshe found his sex scene gross and ottshe never ever swears and she said totally calmly "i did not want to see his ass"i kinda feel the same way tbh but it didn't bother me enough to remember the scene tbh
the sex scenes between the main characters were generally lovely and at least significantly charged with more feeling than your average hollywood depiction of sexit was lovingwhatever!
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Monday, 29 January 2018 21:55 (six years ago) link
someone else said upthread but my only issue w/ the sex-scene was the disregard for the people downstairs lol
― fuck you, your hat is horrible (Neanderthal), Monday, 29 January 2018 22:06 (six years ago) link
I didn't mind the sex! At all! Or the nudity. The violence + Shannon bothered me.
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 29 January 2018 22:16 (six years ago) link
alfred i know -- i drifted from one topic to the other in my post, it was confusing
i don't know why the world needs a PG love story when it can have an R rated onewe only spend so much of our time on earth under parental guidance and have the rest of our lives to watch movies made for adults
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Monday, 29 January 2018 22:51 (six years ago) link
should i see paddington 2 on the basis of this?
― Philip Nunez, Monday, 29 January 2018 23:08 (six years ago) link
I watched Paddington 1 last night and the Shape Of Water parallels were lol to me
― Haribo Hancock (sic), Monday, 29 January 2018 23:16 (six years ago) link
They spent 3 years on that ass. Tell your mom to have some respect
― Number None, Monday, 29 January 2018 23:20 (six years ago) link
I guess I found the violence "unnecessary" while appreciating that GDT is still beholden to his pulp forbears and proud of it
― Number None, Monday, 29 January 2018 23:22 (six years ago) link
pulp for Bears?
― Philip Nunez, Monday, 29 January 2018 23:26 (six years ago) link
water bears, maybe
― Number None, Monday, 29 January 2018 23:29 (six years ago) link
Michael Shannon spent 3 years on his own ass?
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Monday, 29 January 2018 23:32 (six years ago) link
oh, I misread you. Michael Shannon must have spent at least forty though. So if you think about it, it's even more disrespectful
― Number None, Monday, 29 January 2018 23:42 (six years ago) link
I super don't know how I missed all the cats. I was confused by his hairpiece too, but granted I was distracted during the movie (aka drunk).
― Yerac, Monday, 29 January 2018 23:59 (six years ago) link
the hairpiece WAS the dead cat, duh
― rb (soda), Tuesday, 30 January 2018 00:14 (six years ago) link
Michael Shannon is the.same.guy.in.just.about.every.film. .. Except for that brief moment in "Groundhog Day" where you actually see him laugh.
― Acid Hose (Capitaine Jay Vee), Tuesday, 30 January 2018 00:14 (six years ago) link
Whoa that was unintentional text formatting there!
― Acid Hose (Capitaine Jay Vee), Tuesday, 30 January 2018 00:15 (six years ago) link
You know the scene in Sullivan's Travels where everyone goes nutso with laughter at a Mickey Mouse cartoon? Every time I watch it, I wonder if people really thought Mickey was all that funny. I ask myself: were people more naive? more susceptible to pratfalls? less inured to the cadences of screen comedy? more certain of the social contracts around public laughter? how big of a factor was novelty? why did they love that silliness so much?
Or maybe Preston Sturges was just trying to prove a point. Now, I love Mickey Mouse (even if he's not laugh-out-loud funny), but I've got to admit a much greater fan on a (semi-)detached critical level than on an emotionally-invested one. And I feel the same way about James Whale films, and about the Universal horror / sci-fi flicks. I enjoy them so, so, much, but there's not a moment of fear or surprise in them. Not to an adult in 2018. But that doesn't touch my love them for their craft, artistry, rickety sets, occasional technical gimcrackery, etc. ... And it doesn't touch the fact that I'll rewatch some of them three times a year, and adore every frame.
But sometimes I wish I could watch a Mickey Mouse cartoon in the 1930s, or sit as a teenager in the 1940s and leap out of my chair when Lugosi lumbers out of the shadows. I *think* that's the experience that GDT was trying to create in Shape of Water – a sultry dames! weird monsters! crooked commies! mid-century pulp with the volume turned high enough provoke the same (or equivalent) emotional effect in a 2018 audience as it would in the era in which it takes place.
― rb (soda), Tuesday, 30 January 2018 00:53 (six years ago) link
(which is a long way to say that the sadism/romance/OTT creepy Shannoning worked towards my appreciation of the film instead of against it)
― rb (soda), Tuesday, 30 January 2018 00:59 (six years ago) link
good posts
― somebody toucha my fgti (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 30 January 2018 01:10 (six years ago) link
Except for that brief moment in "Groundhog Day" where you actually see him laugh.
― Acid Hose (Capitaine Jay Vee)
it always stops me in my tracks when i'm reminded that michael shannon is in groundhog day
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 30 January 2018 03:47 (six years ago) link
russian spy stuff was A+
― reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 30 January 2018 04:11 (six years ago) link
Man I really wish this movie had been more like that. I’m about as in the tank (pun fully intended) as it gets for the sort of OTT pulpy vibe you describe.
― The Spilling of a Sacred Beer (latebloomer), Tuesday, 30 January 2018 04:18 (six years ago) link
I thought this was pretty good, even if it did remind me at times a little too much of "Amelie," and even if its themes fell just shy of coherent. But I love Guillermo del Toro in general, and find his career fascinating. He's always linked to these projects he has no business pursuing (like a remake of Frankenstein or an over-ambitious Lovecraft adaptation) and you start to feel a little bad for him, like he can't catch a break or get work, and then bam, out of nowhere comes something like Pacific Rim or Crimson Peak - both flawed but worth seeing, especially the latter - or some oddball hybrid like this one.
The violence in this, fwiw, is very much of a piece with that in "Pan's Labyrinth," and as far as I can remember no one complained about the blood and gore and sadism in that one. Maybe it was more necessary, being a movie in part about war and fascism? Anyway, this movie totally could have been told as PG-13 or PG, but I think the decision to go R helped keep it from being too whimsical and precious. (People forget, maybe, that "Amelia" was rated R, too, though of course that didn't keep that movie from being too whimsical and precious.)
Year ago I interviewed Del Toro, over the phone, and he was as charming and generous and smart and energetic as you've heard. An hour or so after the phone call, when I was making dinner, I get a call, and it's Del Toro wanting to talk some more!
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 1 February 2018 19:39 (six years ago) link
I’d kill for that phone call
― direct to consumer online mattress brand (silby), Thursday, 1 February 2018 20:08 (six years ago) link
That does sound amazing.
― Tarr Yang Preminger Argento Carpenter (Eric H.), Thursday, 1 February 2018 20:09 (six years ago) link
that's so sweet!
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 1 February 2018 20:29 (six years ago) link
>The violence in this, fwiw, is very much of a piece with that in "Pan's Labyrinth,"
he seems to have a reoccurring thing for injuring people's mouth/cheek area.
― Mad Piratical (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 1 February 2018 21:51 (six years ago) link
Great story JiC!
― Le Bateau Ivre, Thursday, 1 February 2018 21:53 (six years ago) link
fwiw i hated the violence in Pan's Labyrinth. that scene where he destroy's the man's face with a beer bottle is the reason i haven't seen any GDT since. i don't trust his films.
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 1 February 2018 22:08 (six years ago) link
Crimson Peak is also super violent. I was surprised, since it seemed like a pretty harmless old fashioned ghost story.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 1 February 2018 22:11 (six years ago) link
he doesn't deploy violence cheaply, he wants it to disturb you because it's disturbing to be violent. Compare to the refreshing lack of onscreen civilian death in Pacific Rim. They knock down a bunch of Hong Kong but everyone is safely underground.
― direct to consumer online mattress brand (silby), Thursday, 1 February 2018 22:32 (six years ago) link
I just googled the Amelie comparison and am laughing about how many people have brought it up. I thought I had made some weird parallel and after JIC I guess it's pretty obvious.
― Yerac, Thursday, 1 February 2018 22:58 (six years ago) link
Yeah, I had no idea before I saw it (I avoided most reviews and this thread) but the parallels are unavoidable, from the lead to the color scheme.
The best Michael Shannon film btw may remain the under-seen and underrated Premium Rush, which I've seen described as a human roadrunner/coyote move. My guitar teacher backed him up a couple of years back doing a set of Smiths covers (he sang; he did a night of Dylan covers more recently).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1wYOmXCJmI
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 1 February 2018 23:21 (six years ago) link
otm, Premium Rush owns
― direct to consumer online mattress brand (silby), Friday, 2 February 2018 00:01 (six years ago) link
(or Boardwalk Empire, since he was playing almost the exact same character, and his character was the worst thing about that show)
― Evan R, Monday, January 29, 2018 3:36 PM
I never imagined anyone would feel this way. He was terrific fun in that.
Disney wanted to make Pan's Labyrinth but he wouldn't remove the violence for them.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 2 February 2018 23:47 (six years ago) link
Jesus this blew me away
Masterpiece imo
― Planck Blather (darraghmac), Wednesday, 21 February 2018 20:20 (six years ago) link
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, February 1, 2018 2:39 PM (two weeks ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I'd love to talk him about world building. I loved hearing him explain the intricate details of the universe in Pans Labyrinth (bonus features on the blu-ray).
― Evan, Wednesday, 21 February 2018 20:26 (six years ago) link
I knew, regardless how I felt about the film, that I'd have something to be entertained by when I overheard an older couple in the lobby on the phone before the screening. "I've got to let you go. We're at the theater, going to see 'The Shape of Water'. It's nominated for thirteen academy awards. We're gonna see what it's all about!"
I didn't run into that particular couple on the way out, but hearing the reactions from a group of slightly-younger people (probably in their 60s) was amazing. There's a particular old white dude facial expression that corresponds to a challenge to world view and inability to figure out how to react that never fails to amuse me.
There were some challenging shifts in tone, but I felt like they were in service of making a movie that incorporates the central premise (woman falls in love with fish-man) in a lighthearted way while making the escape, and the following investigation, have higher stakes. It worked for me, but just barely!
― mh, Wednesday, 21 February 2018 20:39 (six years ago) link