Trans/Genderqueer/Agender/Questioning Thread

https://thenewinquiry.com/up-for-debate/

'Reflections from the TERF wars about dismantling bigotry on the left'

Argh one of my friends - who has had to deal with a partner’s transition where both have been beastly to one another - has gone full TERF. It gives me the horrors! Thing is, I know she’d be OK with trans women if she wasn’t in constant conflict with one, so her position seems fundamentally selfish/dishonest even considering her ex’s appalling behaviour.

there's a startling amount of acceptance of terf ideas in the scene that revolves around one of my careers and it... well, ofc, it makes me feel not like a person

"startling amount" = i feel like i'm overstating things, i've noticed it maybe three times but it feels world-destroying every time

Ugh, that sucks. My friend is being tedious and making li’l old cis me feel deeply uncomfortable, but that is as nothing compared to what my nb/trans friends would feel like if they had to read 2000 angry words on FB agreeing with that arsehole Janice Turner who writes for The Times.

Honestly, I really wish that ppl would spend even half the energy and time and words on addressing the transphobia and the gender essentialism of Cis Men (and all the benefits that Cis Men derive from these things) that they did on “terfs”.

Who benefits from the terf wars? And they amount of attention they get in the narratives around both feminism and around trans and non-binary people? (Bcz it sure isn’t trans and non-binary people, it sure isn’t women, or the intersections between those groups.)

Who benefits from casting transphobia and gender essentialism as a problem exclusively of ~feminists~? Why do we even need a separate word for “female transphobe”? When was the last time you saw a cis man getting called out for transphobia, at all, let alone with the amount of air time and attention? When are cis men even queried on their views on trans ppl, let alone dragged for them? Why don’t *those* questions get asked?

This used to be a meaningful term for addressing a specific thing. It’s pretty much stopped being one, and started being a deflection. It’s a way of locating the problem *over there*. Those women, those feminists, those terfs. And never interrogating cis men or cis male violence.

i hardly think isolating the terf problem is some kind of distraction from the transphobia of cis men?

it's also like... so important to not feel active hostility in spaces you inhabit? i don't inhabit a lot of spaces with cis men. i inhabit a lot of spaces with feminists

i do not think "never interrogating cis men or cis male violence" is remotely accurate

xps. if you're referring to the post that j made it specifically addresses that:

"Trans womanhood continues to be treated as a topic of playful debate for the chattering classes in places like Sydney, New York, and London. The stakes are high—Mike Pence is now a heartbeat away from the Oval Office, “bathroom bills” are cropping up across the U.S., and Trump appointees are busy rolling back any gains won under the Obama administration. We cannot lay primary responsibility for this state of affairs at the feet of anti-trans feminists—their influence is not so great. But the damage they do is real: Not only do they open space for liberals and leftists to opt out of trans solidarity, but they also provide rhetorical cover and ammunition for right-wing attacks."

in the city i live in i know of two feminist spaces/services that exclude trans women. doesn't seem like a minor detail to confront terfs.

Maybe you should try inhabiting more spaces full of cis men, then.

Because when I am afraid for my physical safety for ~presenting wrong~, or I am being bullied out of a space I need to be in *for my job* (as happened to me within the past 6 months) it is 100% not terfs that are doing it to me.

But it's really hard to get anyone to care about transphobia unless it's somehow ~to do with~ feminists.

I have too many dogs in this fight, and as far as I can see you have none, so this is not the time or the place.

But just try and think about what you *see* and try and think about who it serves. Cos it ain't us.

Maybe you should try inhabiting more spaces full of cis men, then.

... ok

this is really not what i come to this thread or this board for so see y'all later

well clearly everyone who’s been organizing against bathroom bills is only getting mad at TERFs right? they’re everywhere in american government after all

🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

Here in Canada terfs and evangelical christians have teamed up and are uneasy allies in their anti-trans activities. High profile transwomen here are most obviously targetted by both groups (rather than Joe Public cis-men) and terf websites etc highly suspected of receiving funding from US organisations pushing an anti-trans agenda.

great contributions from k*** here, ilx youre wild

Who benefits from casting transphobia and gender essentialism as a problem exclusively of ~feminists~? Why do we even need a separate word for “female transphobe”?

Some started just calling them "TERs" now for this reason.

okay the kochs do have a lot of money

still though the debate in american politics right now is decidedly not focused on michigan womyn’s fest types

great contributions from k*** here, ilx youre wild

― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Thursday, February 8, 2018 1:21 AM (eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Regardless, there really is no need to do this. Unless your goal is to wind them up. Which it clearly is.

captain save a terf seems like shes doing a pretty good job 'winding people up' without me

Sure. It's a 'dick move', in all respects.

Yo, deadnaming and the like is not tolerated here, even if it is obfuscated. I've threadbanned D-40.

does the threadbanning feature work now??

(not to play captain save a deej but... i don't think d-40 knew that he was deadnaming as much as he was past-ilx-handling? sorry if this is making things worse or if i'm out of line, just think that the shape-shifting of ilx handles over time can be a bit obfuscatory)

If deej knew the past-ilx-handle - which he did - he def knows about the, let's see, *billion* times they said they didn't want to be called that on here. Come now.

okay

i guess it's just like there's deadnaming and then there's citation of past behaviors in the context of a message board. but again, i don't really know the specific branwell backstory as i tend to avoid most threads they're active on because of confrontations like the one that sparked this whole thing.

I've no stake in this discussion at all, not tonight's I mean. And I hear you, and your questions are totally valid imo. But Deej not knowing their backstory is just not possible. He knows they asked sooo many times to not use their birth name any more. Which is why it's a dick move to use a name not used by that person for what now, five or six years?

feel like it was a contextual reach but i guess it's in the eye of the beholder, and anyway this whole thing has resulted in at least one other person peacing out of ilx so good job everyone

wait is Brad peacing out of ILX entirely??? :(

I mean I think ppl should make the decisions that are healthy and right for themselves but you can't let Branwell get to you like that

one of the worst posters on this site driving out one of the handful of good ones is v. fitting late-period ilx.

yeah well maybe some people should be less jerky and assumptive of others’ motives too

u_u

are we there, yet?

So some new developments - therapist meetings continue to go well. I recently joined a trans support/social group at the LGBT Center of Greater Cleveland. I was so nervous going the first time and nearly chickened out. But everyone was super welcoming and nice, from the person at the front desk to the people in the group session. The first night I went there were five MTF and two FTM folks there. They meet weekly and usually spend an hour and a half on a group activity there, sometimes just chatting, or creative writing, or other things; then go out and grab something to eat. They're also planning to start having some meetings out at local places both for people seeking the confidence to be more out and to get the local community more used to seeing trans people in public.

I also came out to someone not my spouse or my therapist, albeit with slightly ulterior motives. A friend of mine I've known for several years, who I first met through a group of local MST3K fans, is a professional personal stylist/wardrobe consultant. I came out to her and she was super supportive, offered me a lot of great tips and said she'd be happy to go shopping with me to find flattering looks.

Step by step, step by step . . .

wow good work! that is awesome!

<3

yay phil! baby steps <3

awesome!

really great stuff, PD, I'm so glad you have a supportive network!

Thanks, everyone. I also had "the talk" with my wife this weekend, asking her outright what would happen to our relationship if I decide for certain to transition. She said she definitely doesn't think it would be the end of our marriage or relationship, but it would change the character of it for sure. That's about as positive an answer as I can hope for right now and we will just take it as it comes.

Of course, if/when I need some gender-conforming procedures that aren't covered by insurance and decide to crowdfund them, I'll be posting here! (It appears that Cigna covers HRT and SRS, but not facial feminization or hair removal.)

Wishing you nothing but the best, phil. I can’t imagine how stressful and difficult this process is for you <3

So it's been an interesting couple of weeks, not least of which because I've been sick as hell with some kind of chest cold that just won't go away. :\ But anyway I talked a lot more with my wife about the possibility of transitioning. There's still a lot to work out there, but I think we've both accepted that that's what I'm working towards. But there's still a lot of therapy and other work to be done.

My last session with my therapist was interesting. He's really helping me sort through a lot of questions, confusion and ideas about why I feel like I'm not nonbinary or gender ambiguous, why I feel strongly that I'm trans. He asked me a great question that he said often comes up when he arranges for his trans patients to start meeting with endocrinologists and other MDs as they start transitioning: "Without using the words 'masculine' or 'feminine,' explain what it means to be you as a woman." That's a really, really hard thing and I've been dwelling a lot on it for our next session. I know that the answer doesn't lie in clothing or hair or makeup or other cultural signifiers like that - in fact it doesn't lie in anything outward-facing, including genitals. But I use those things as a way of signaling to myself and the world what I feel like inside, which is hard to put into words. "What it means to be me as a woman" has to do with how the world perceives and reacts to me, and how I relate to the world, but every time I try to describe it I start to use "masculine" and "feminine" or their equivalents. It's almost archetypal - I present to the world as "male," but I don't feel like the world has ever perceived me as "a man" (as opposed to "a boy") and I don't know that I've apprehended the world in the way that "men" are expected to. Very frustrating -- it feels like trying to pass the SATs or something, to come up with an answer here. And if I don't have a good one, does that mean doctors won't help me transition?

I feel like in my head I'm sort of timelining this out, and I told my therapist about it. Like step one, because it's one of THE biggest triggers for dysmorphia, is hair removal. I recently met another transwoman who recommended her LHR practitioner who is a lot cheaper than most, and lets patients pay per-session instead of buying a package of treatments. After or concurrent with that, I start changing my public gender presentation and coming out to family and work colleagues*, and then start HRT. Or maybe vice-versa -- start HRT until its effects can't be hidden any longer, then change my gender presentation, etc. Still not sure.

Something that made me feel like I'm on the right track: I met again with the trans support group I mentioned upthread. I went to the LGBT Center for their weekly meeting, but hadn't looked at the website that day. When I arrived, a staffer there told me the group was meeting offsite that night at a nearby bar that has tabletop games to play. I had to think really hard at that point whether to go, because I only ever present as female right now in very safe spaces. I drove over, parked nearby and walked past to glance inside, and literally the only people there were the group, along with two people working there and one person at the bar. I decided what the hell, went in and sat down. Met three very cool new people in the group, we had a couple of drinks, played a couple of games, etc. I got a little nervous when the bartender came over to take a drink order and asked for ID, since obviously I'd be misgendering myself. He just took a look, said "Cool, thanks" and brought my beer; it was after that I noticed that in their front window was a giant American flag with the stripes replaced by the LGBT flag and there's a sign at the front designating the bar as a safe space for all. And their bathrooms are labeled as non-gendered. I was there about two hours, a few other patrons came in during that time, and it was so cool to just be out and be ME, the gender I feel like. This was literally the first time I've been in a public space and interacted with strangers and it was amazing. I felt no fear, I didn't have any of the heart-hammering anxiety I usually get, it just felt normal.

Honestly, I can't wait to do it more. I want the world to start seeing the actual me.

*I specifically checked while thinking about this stuff, and while the state of Ohio has no protections at all in place, the city of Cleveland specifically prohibits discrimination on the basis of gender identity or gender presentation.

He asked me a great question that he said often comes up when he arranges for his trans patients to start meeting with endocrinologists and other MDs as they start transitioning: "Without using the words 'masculine' or 'feminine,' explain what it means to be you as a woman."

this question is amazing and so difficult

And if I don't have a good one, does that mean doctors won't help me transition?

i doubt this is the case (in fact i doubt there's any such thing as a "good" or "bad" answer to that question). i think he's just trying to help you think about it in as many ways as possible before you start making decisions

i'm thrilled about your positive experience in the bar with the trans support group! it is so good to feel... actually safe in a public space, to hear and be heard by other people who've gone through or are going through similar things, to (getting a little corny here) feel like you're capable of being you and that you aren't a dissonant element in a scene but are instead completely harmonized. it neutralizes a lot of the anxiety i generally feel in public as well

It really was something, and the group members and facilitator are just so confident and comfortable in who they are that it's helping me a LOT. When I sat down I said, "This is tough for me, I'm not out and this is a neighborhood where I can run into people I know" and they all said "Don't worry, we got you, nothing bad is going to happen." At one point the bartender/owner asked if he could take a pic of us playing a game to put up on their social media accounts, and before I could say anything Ace, the group facilitator, just said "Thanks but we'd prefer you didn't." And that was that.

so happy to hear this update!!!

yeah this is major stuff phil <3 <3 <3

Oh, also, when I got my hair cut this weekend and got the green touched up, I told my stylist, "I want to try growing it out again, but don't feel like you have to be . . . confined, by like . . . a masculine cut? Feel free to make it more . . . androgynous?" Like doing everything possible to avoid saying out loud "I'm changing my gender presentation and want to use my own hair." But I think she got it. I eventually pulled up a picture of a long, curly asymmetrical bob and said, "I know this is a 'women's cut' but this is basically what I'm aiming for."

way to go!