US Politics, February 2018: Our country was founded by geniuses, but it’s being run by idiots

OK, thanks, that helps. So it does come down to the misrepresentation of identity.

the stolen ssns alone...

Use of Stolen U.S. Identities
41. In or around 2016, Defendants and their co-conspirators also used, possessed, and transferred, without lawful authority, the social security numbers and dates of birth of real U.S. persons without those persons’ knowledge or consent. Using these means of identification, Defendants and their co-conspirators opened accounts at PayPal, a digital payment service provider; created false means of identification, including fake driver’s licenses; and posted on ORGANIZATION-controlled social media accounts using the identities of these U.S. victims. Defendants and their co-conspirators also obtained, and attempted to obtain, false identification documents to use as proof of identity in connection with maintaining accounts and purchasing

sorry last line there is “advertisements on social media sites”

the indictment is pretty compelling. i recommend curling up by a fire and taking it all in

This just supports my notion that teaching critical thinking needs to be one of our highest priority goals. Because the Russians are frankly right: Americans are so ridiculously suggestible that they'll even believe a vote for Jill Stein isn't a waste.

yeah, but they said "trust me"...i mean, you gotta trust that

NO FRAUD NO FRAUD YOU'RE THE FRAUD MAGA TAX CUTS MAGA TAX CUTS

https://www.fincen.gov/news/news-releases/fincen-fines-trump-taj-mahal-casino-resort-10-million-significant-and-long

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/federal-court-approves-25-million-trump-university-settlement-n845181

it's like asking a drug dealer if they're a cop, rules are rules

@old lunch amen

72. Beginning on or about August 5, 2016, Defendants and their co-conspirators used the false U.S. persona @March_for_Trump Twitter account to recruit and later pay a real U.S. person to wear a costume portraying Clinton in a prison uniform at a rally in West Palm Beach.
73. Beginning on or about August 11, 2016, Defendants and their co-conspirators used the false U.S. persona “Matt Skiber” Facebook account to recruit a real U.S. person to acquire signs and a costume depicting Clinton in a prison uniform.

my favorite part

58. ...

d. Defendants and their co-conspirators thereafter destroyed evidence for the purpose of impeding the investigation. On or about September 13, 2017, KAVERZINA wrote in an email to a family member: “We had a slight crisis here at work: the FBI busted our activity (not a joke). So, I got preoccupied with covering tracks together with the colleagues.” KAVERZINA further wrote, “I created all these pictures and posts, and the Americans believed that it was written by their people.”

can “the FBI busted our activity (not a joke)” be the name of the march thread

OK, thanks, that helps. So it does come down to the misrepresentation of identity.

― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Saturday, February 17, 2018 12:33 AM (forty-one seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

While any form of fraud is predicated upon a deceit, I intentionally described these charges as predicated not simply upon the misrepresentation of personal and organizational *identity*, but also upon the misrepresentation of personal and organizational *nationality*. Whether that distinction is one of law or prosecutorial discretion I'm not sure.

xps much harder to sell people on a third way out when the Dems aren't awful. that happens to be the easier and more impactful thing to try to fix before the midterms, I would think

and yes, I'd feel the same way about this if the same tactics had been used to get, idk, rob ford or Doug ford or Conrad black elected here

y'all have a fantastic night

good handles in the bit about wire fraud. i like ihatecri✧✧✧@gm✧✧✧.c✧✧

ihatecrime1 at gmail dot com

Interesting thread from a Sanders campaign volunteer. I don’t think the campaign knew what was going on as far as the Russian disinfo stuff goes.

<thread> Just like the rest of the substance of the Muller indictment, the fact that Russian information operations favored Sanders over Clinton is not news. See, for example, https://t.co/xDLvSFE0fD https://t.co/nTJeRDyRLR

— Dan Nexon (@dhnexon) February 16, 2018

You mean except for Bernie's chief strategist being a former Manafort associate who likewise worked for the Russian side in Ukraine, right? Which doesn't necessarily mean he or especially Bernie knew, but might be taken to suggest strongly that the former did and the latter should have known.

y'all have a fantastic night

Literally the only thing you’re prepared to talk about is how the Democrats aren’t enough like what you want them to be - dirty corporatists and all that - and you just spent the last three hours trying and failing to derail the thread into your personal rut. Sorry, try again tomorrow?

http://youtu.be/CtVteemLin4

For my part, as a Bernie supporter, I have chosen to realize that today’s announcements are actually NOT ABOUT ME what a concept

I earnestly do not feel in a rut and I apologize for posting so much

Simon, it might help to keep in mind that you're arguing itt with people who largely share your concerns, not with like the entire 'left'-leaning population of the US. Some people in this country are definitely pinning way too much hope on Mueller's investigation but I don't think that's so of much an ILXor problem.

i mean the democrats have a shit ton of work to do and part of that process will involve shaking the ptsd from being abused by the republicans constantly no matter what they do

that said i think this whole indictment speaks to multiple huge crises in america: in media (the perils of both sidesism) and online culture (susceptible to disinfo, echo chambers, trusting possibly bad actors) and the nuts and bolts of what americans use as “proof” of identity (what’s up equifax)

and the sexism of course. don’t forget the sexism since that’s probably what’s getting putin’s motor really running

rip ihatecrime1 at gmail dot com either way. heaven needed a totally believable not fake above board email address

this version of the 2/16/18 US special prosecutor indictment is text-searchable and lo and behold there are "trump" hits

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4380506-Internet-Research-Agency-Indictment.html

i'm sad that ihatecrime1 was taken but i'll settle for ihatecrime2

nb there are more crises for sure

can the POTUS issue pardons to foreigners? asking for a comrade

Simon, it's baffling how I can simultaneously agree wholeheartedly with a point you make and wildly disagree with the conclusions you draw from the point you've made.

― Love Theme from Biodome (Old Lunch), Friday, February 16, 2018

otm -- I've been having these fights all my life and held Simon's position in 2006. Yet, thanks to activists as committed as hoos, one of those corrupt major parties has moved further left than it has in my lifetime, and, yes, to a gay Hispanic like me this means a lot. I don't waste time on chimeras of third parties anymore because American history has shown they exist only to entrench or scare the two existing ones.

fwiw Canada faces pretty much the exact same problem (with one more chimaera), but that has yet to dampen my enthusiasm. things seem immovable until they aren't.

Aimless doing some high-quality posting upthread, by the way (though things have moved on somewhat)

i... think that's what alfred was arguing? the choice of which issues which people take a hard line on is very rooted in personal politics.

xp

thanks, maura

And, I hope it's clear, complacency is never an option -- especially for people who look like me.

I don't intend this condescendingly, but I don't look to Canada as a model. Our histories are too different.

no, of course not.

yw alfred. sorry about my mangled grammar. long day

Long fuckin’ week

yw alfred. sorry about my mangled grammar. long day

― maura, Friday, February 16, 2018 9:55 PM

I didn't notice!

So tired of the armchair expert takes on the democratic party. Like of course Simon H would you do a much better job than the people in charge.

Maybe not but he would do a better job as the director of programming at msnbc. Watching lawrence o’donnell speculate about “what vladimir putin knows about trup” jesus

jesus christ

I'll repeat: you can care about a massive effort to de-stabilize an election that cost HRC a victory and support policies that will attract minority voters.

of course, if you watch cable teevee all day that's your problem

Russian indictments could set stage for more Mueller charges https://t.co/A8TM7mdrGm pic.twitter.com/IbetQR9Gzr

— Mike Walker (@New_Narrative) February 17, 2018

love how every photo of this guys he looks like he's just about to indict someone

i hope the trump goons and trump himself all have nightmares about that look

i don't do that. this is the first time i turned it on in a while.

that said i think this whole indictment speaks to multiple huge crises in america: in media (the perils of both sidesism) and online culture (susceptible to disinfo, echo chambers, trusting possibly bad actors) and the nuts and bolts of what americans use as “proof” of identity (what’s up equifax)

- maura

i agree with this

OK, thanks, that helps. So it does come down to the misrepresentation of identity.

― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Saturday, February 17, 2018 12:33 AM (forty-one seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

While any form of fraud is predicated upon a deceit, I intentionally described these charges as predicated not simply upon the misrepresentation of personal and organizational *identity*, but also upon the misrepresentation of personal and organizational *nationality*. Whether that distinction is one of law or prosecutorial discretion I'm not sure.

― Moo Vaughn, Saturday, February 17, 2018 12:45 AM (three hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

To elaborate a bit upon this, because I think I stated if not thought about it with insufficient clarity, I'd characterize the crux of the charge as not simply misrepresentation of identity, but misrepresentation of identity *to the government*. As per paragraph 1 of the indictment, foreign agents are required to register with the government before engaging in domestic political activity. Those who engage in such activity without registering violate the registration requirement, but those who go further and do so under the guise of US personhood are also effectively misrepresenting their registration status to the government. So there's a sense in which the charges apply uniquely to foreign agents (but not all foreign nationals?). Of course, US citizens who engage in the same sort of activity probably could be charged under the statute as well to the extent that they misrepresent their identity to the government by means such as the identity theft described in counts three through eight of the indictment. And even to the extent that they don't themselves engage in identity theft or even misrepresentation, they could be charged nevertheless as co-conspirators to the extent that they agree that someone else will do so. Whether the choice to indict only foreign nationals and not any domestic persons today reflects a) a determination that none engaged in similarly actionable conduct or b) a strategic decision to delay/avoid such indictments in favor of seeking/having already obtained their guilty pleas/cooperation remains to be seen.

The impressions of Mueller's investigation that I get from the indictments handed down so far, coupled with the stories that have reached the press via investigative digging and the various leaks out of the White House, Congress and legal teams representing those who have been called to testify, is that Mueller and his team are very expert, thorough and professional.

However it is that the politics in reaction to his findings eventually play out, they will not be driven by incompetence or partisanship in Mueller's office. Contrast and compare: Ken Starr.

And, of course, foreign agents can include US persons.

cf Flynn

one thing though: on the internet people communicate under assumed identities all the time. and they are always talking about politics. is the scope and coordination of these efforts the issue or would it be equally illegal if -- say -- a british person made an ilx sock called "joe american" and started ranting against trump?