Let us anticipate Greta Gerwig's directorial debut "Lady Bird"

But this whole opposition didn't have much drive for me because Sacramento didn't look boring in the film - it looked glamorous and beautiful - partly because Gerwig wanted it to look that way anyway!

Gerwig the writer and director has a perspective that Lady Bird the character doesn't, though.

I think the film does a very good job at making it clear that Lady Bird's sweeping ambitions are completely quotidian while still staying completely true to them. It isn't that kind to everyone - the shot of the Theatre Priest complaining that the audience didn't appreciate the (terrible) show he'd put on was mean (but very funny).

I also liked the sports coach priest who became a theatre director, though this was broad, positive comedy that could have been in a much less subtle film.

Hang fire though, isn't that the whole point? Sacramento is beautiful to us AND her by the end; that's why she gives that speech on the phone about how much she realized that she loves the place! That moment would seem corny and fake if Gerwig (and co) hadn't made it look beautiful as the film rolls along surely?

Also it's kind of obvious but should probably be said: this movie hits you differently if you've ever had a "oh shit, that's how close we were to the wall" realisation post-teen.

Google tells me that I've mangled that phrase, but ykwim.

AF -- if by wall you mean bankruptcy, I agree that's the darkest shade in the film - but it's not painted that dark here. There isn't eg much hint that they'll lose the house, as far as I can remember.

Pisces - yes, I agree with all of that about the end.

So I suppose my trouble is that we have to watch her being desperate (?) to get away from this awful place long *before* the end, when we can see it's not awful.

Mr Farrell is correct that Gerwig and the character seem to have different perspectives on it - which in theory seems fine - but in practice I think it stops the attitudes that drive the character being easy to sympathise or empathise with.

Probably my attitude is partly just a version of the mother's -- irritation that Lady Bird doesn't appreciate how good she has it.

It's true that teens (or anyone, in a way) might lack perspective and not know how good they have it, and this is realistic in its way ... but it still seems to me an odd basis for a dramatic narrative.

Again: in a way, this odd frictionless quality of the film actually made it more enjoyable. I think I, like others, would have enjoyed it less if a character had spent an hour battling a fatal illness. But I also find it odd, hence remarking on it.

The sports coach scene was hilarious. Another film would have been tempted to play that character in a much crasser and less well-intentioned way but this one has an affection for almost all its characters that really comes through.

AF -- if by wall you mean bankruptcy, I agree that's the darkest shade in the film - but it's not painted that dark here. There isn't eg much hint that they'll lose the house, as far as I can remember.

Aye, but this is because the movie is largely from Lady Bird's point of view.

I think the Pinefox is right that the lack of friction in the film is odd, but that was what I liked best about it. I found myself sympathising with Lady Bird and her desire to get away and being painfully aware that things were, overall, pretty good for her.

I thought her teenage self-centredness (allowing her to dimly glimpse the difficulties in her parents' lives) rang true, and for that to ring true required deft handling. Other films might have played up her brattishness or selfishness (or talent!) to the point that I lost sympathy with the character; might have played up the challenges she faces to the point of making her struggle more obvious.

I ended up reflecting on what it's like to be an ordinary parent and an ordinary kid; she hasn't triumphed over adversity, she's just moved through a phase of her life. I found the whole thing quite affecting.

I'm surprised I said I'd love to live in Rye, though I certainly love visiting it. I think it's generally a good idea to spend a little time and energy recognising what's good about where you live, if you can.

Like, it made me think about the day my Dad drove me to University for the first time; I was so excited to be leaving my attractive, safe town that I barely thought about how tired he must have been from driving, let alone consider how he and my mum must have felt that day as the second of their two children left home. I wish I could talk to him now about how he felt, and maybe even apologise for being a self-centred little idiot.

I'm a sucker for films like this but they're usually about escaping your family and your mundane teenage life, whereas this starts off from the point of Lady Bird desperately wanting to escape them and ends with her accepting and moving closer together to them, even as she geographically moves further away. I've not seen it handled quite in that way before.

― Matt DC, Monday, March 5, 2018 10:18 AM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Running on Empty (1988), innit? http://www.spiritualityandpractice.com/films/reviews/view/6072

Continue to agree completely with the pinefox' restatement/elaboration of the things I said about the film.

(you haven't actually said anything about this film)

(I did on another thread)

I’ll be interested to see this; my teen years were full of GET ME OUT yet also full of oh shit, will my mum be able to pay the mortgage this month. The latter feeling took a back seat to the getting-out imperative, mainly because getting out was more in my control than my mum’s bills.

Yeah, you would totally love this imo, Suzy

I ran into a friend over the weekend who, I've realized, defaults to a sort of half-argumentative conversational banter by default. I mentioned really enjoying this film and he was prodding me about how, if it were to be about a young man instead, no one would care. After rolling my eyes for a moment, because no one needs to engage on that point, I realized that there is a character for me in the film.

I hadn't realized before seeing Lady Bird that it takes place over her senior year in high school, and is set in 2002 - 2003. That was my senior year of college! So age-wise... I'm a year younger than Lady Bird's older brother, Miguel.

The small plot pieces that set up the time period were subtle, Alanis Morissette and Dave Matthews sing-alongs aside but really sold it for me.

I loved that they did Sondheim's Merrily We Roll Along and went all-in on showing them putting it on. meaning in addition to learning the script for Lady Bird, they had to learn chunks of Merrily We Roll Along too (underappreciated musical)

H8 everyone who doesn’t love and relate to this movie.

In the film Sacramento seemed to mean primarily something like 'suburban, safe, boring' - hence LB's desire to go to NYC (understandable but a pretty standard destination for anyone wanting to see the bright lights).

But this whole opposition didn't have much drive for me because Sacramento didn't look boring in the film - it looked glamorous and beautiful - partly because Gerwig wanted it to look that way anyway!

Lady Bird’s desire to “get out” has more to do with being a teenager and wanting to come into her own identity than it does the particular conditions of her life in Sacramento. Her mother — like all parents — takes the teen rebelliom personally, but it’s a more general kind of rejection of home. And then she comes to an understanding at the end that she was never really resentful of her mother pwe se. Her rebellion was a kind of a necessary but painful phase it’s adolescence nothing to do with sacramento or new york

The movie is great because it recognizes that Lady Bird’s independent streak is BOTH a source of integrity AND immaturity. The movie’s sympathy is not condescending but it also doesn’t romanticize adolescent contrarianism — it’s all seem as part of the human condition. There’s probably a better way to phrase all this but i need to get back to work.

it recognizes that Lady Bird’s independent streak is BOTH a source of integrity AND immaturity

otm

she doesn't even rebel very much! she's kind of an offbeat kid, a conformist non-conformist -- wants to go by a name she chose, runs for student council with the funny posters, cool hair color, but there's no indication that she skips school or really gets in trouble before she tries to impress the "cool" kids. and even then, the nun isn't really bothered because her prank is within the bounds of mild teenage playfulness

it's pretty clear when she gets to college that she never really drank much alcohol as a high school kid

treeship otm, otm

great posts from treesh and Tim.

It seemed to me that her rebellion is felt a lot more by her mother because of their specific situation - the economy is tanking which means you feel this pressure and fragility even before the eventual job loss, and when things should be getting better they're getting worse.

And when could really do with having a sober-minded family member, you've got a teenager, and part of your job is not to freak them out even when they keep tapping at the "wheels fall off" button.

(hey hi in case it's not clear I am projecting pretty strongly here, and will probably dial it back down after a second viewing)

honestly the scenes where she's trying to impress the school kids are so relatable because her rebellious streak has a ceiling due to her being kind-hearted at the core. it very much reminded me of when I was in middle school, trying to fit in and swearing for the first time and having my mom buy me the cool clothes, lying about small things to seem more 'rebellious'...but having to part company when anything truly mean-spirited happened. and of course in the end it doesn't work.

then you return to being who you were before only now you appreciate it more.

all the guys at my school around 8th grade were wearing those dirty Big Johnson shirts and it took about a year and a half for the school to ban them because it took them that long to get the joke.

Yeah, I was about to say that I loved the last scene with Danny, where she's wound up because of what his actions have done to her and complicated what's already a complicated time - but once she sees how freaked out he is, she comforts him.

Also anyone whose heart doesn't sing at her and her mother's "favourite afternoon activity" is frankly dead.

that was a great scene (the Danny one).

really? real estate hopping? I laughed but it didn't make any of my organs sing.

I'll take that.

can we discuss again how beautifully staged and acted the Danny/Lady Bird coming out sequences are?

I recall Lady Bird spitting out “you’re gay” as an attack, her face softening as she realizes what she knows and what it means for her friend

open house gawking is a classic activity in smaller cities and I did that with my mom!

I'd forgotten what the after school activity was. I suppose it may have meant nothing to me as neither I nor most of my classmates grew up primarily in a single family house, and have never really desired to live in one.

open houses are almost entirely a sunday afternoon thing

Tim: it's always good to ... 'Reflect on Rye'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDmgbvGQeF4

I'm grateful to Moo Vaughn for being the only person apart from Tim who agrees with me and I would like to read his or her thoughts on the film (which are apparently on another thread).

Yes let's keep the Lady Bird opinions confined to non-Lady Bird threads, only discussion about God Is Not Dead 3 itt

God: still not dead yet

Happy coincidence - just read this entry from Anthony Powell's Journals, 19.5.82:

"When I was young, and people used to say - as they often did - what an awful place Rye was, with its tarted up antique shops, bogus bohemians, horses brasses, and lesbians, there was always someone to add that Rye was nothing, in some respects, to Winchelsea, which was far worse."

I like both.

'Reflect on Winchelsea'.

Ford Madox Ford did - he lived there - as you probably know, Ward.

But there IS a beautiful place in Sussex called Rye which is near to the SEA yay!
Seriously, yeah that sounded tragically like a parody. The article Elton wrote in the Daily Mail about how all modern pop was rubbish and Queen were the greatest band of all time sealed his fate for me.

― Robin Carmody, Monday, May 13, 2002 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

um, isn't it Rhye?
I'll get me studded vest.

― Mark C, Monday, May 13, 2002 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Rye sucks.
― Graham, Monday, May 13, 2002 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

B-but Henry James' house is in Rye!
― Andrew L, Tuesday, May 14, 2002 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

THE MASTER!
― mark s, Tuesday, May 14, 2002 Bookmark

This is the thread where Graham complained about Rye and Tim said it was actually OK.

Of course I was incorrect to say that Tim explicitly said he wanted to live in Rye. But he was positive about it - as I would be.

I now think that this thread genuinely articulates the issues discussed from LADY BIRD (2017) on ILX in 2002.

How am I going to stay sane for the next 3 months?

I did know that Pinefox, yes. You may also know of Miranda Seymour's book A Ring of Conspirators, which is a good guide to Henry James' literary circle in and around Rye, including Ford, Kipling, Crane and Wells.

I don't think I can do, but I can offer this in response:

http://www.nytimes.com/1982/05/30/books/neighbors-friends-collaborators-enemies.html?pagewanted=all

They sound like very similar books!

I am glad that we have found a thread on which to discuss Rye.

OK, this was about 3 degrees less irritating than the Garden State/Adventureland/Little Miss Sunshine axis wtf is wrong with everyone.