I broadly agree with jed about the 70s and (especially) 60s winners btw. The 60s Academy made a smart choice in being so musicals-heavy.
― Alba, Wednesday, 7 March 2018 11:02 (six years ago) link
from the whole of the 60's and 70's there are only 3 or 4 you could disregard as not having a cultural impact in a significant way. Tom Jones (maybe) A Man for All Seasons, Patton, The Sting (Probably) In the Heat of the night (maybe)
No offense, jed, but this is completely wrong about In the Heat of the Night, especially in the South.
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 7 March 2018 11:16 (six years ago) link
Cultural impact smultural impact
Are they remembered yes are they watched yes are they worth the 90-180 mins of your time yes
The insipid selections of the millennium era, none of that holds true
― things you looked shockingly old when you wore (darraghmac), Wednesday, 7 March 2018 11:37 (six years ago) link
None taken, I've never seen it, i've just never heard anyone talk about it.
Alablalba, The Artist?!
― Heavy Messages (jed_), Wednesday, 7 March 2018 11:51 (six years ago) link
The Artist is great!
― things you looked shockingly old when you wore (darraghmac), Wednesday, 7 March 2018 12:04 (six years ago) link
A few years ago the 2009 Oscar winner was the question for Final Jeopardy and no one got it (I didn't either).
― Chris L, Wednesday, 7 March 2018 12:15 (six years ago) link
Conceding my own bias upfront, the run of Best Picture winners from '69-'78 was the most relevant ever. There were two old-fashioned winners, The Sting and Rocky, that I don't think were especially noteworthy (backlash winners, almost); a third, Patton, kind of had one foot in both the old and new. But every other winner from Midnight Cowboy to The Deer Hunter was new and interesting and a big topic of conversation in the culture at large, as were lots of other nominees that didn't win. Why this happened--I assume the electorate was still mostly made up of Old Hollywood people--I don't know.
― clemenza, Wednesday, 7 March 2018 12:23 (six years ago) link
Rocky wasnt a topic in the culture?
"Topic" "culture"
Cmon man
― things you looked shockingly old when you wore (darraghmac), Wednesday, 7 March 2018 12:40 (six years ago) link
I know you balk at these statements, darraghmac, but there are certain films that get talked about and debated much more than others. Do the Right Thing, Thelma & Louise, Get Out--such films are big deals. (Rocky was, to resort to cliche, a feel-good Bicentennial film. I guess it got a lot of attention that year, and it launched a franchise, but there's no way it had the long-term impact of Taxi Driver, All the President's Men, or even Network, which I'm not a big fan of.)
― clemenza, Wednesday, 7 March 2018 12:47 (six years ago) link
"The movies," past or present, have lost more than half of their cultural primacy even since the '70s. In the '70s they had at most half of what they had in the early '50s.
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 7 March 2018 12:54 (six years ago) link
Maybe overall, but I don't think there are any single films from the '50s--not Waterfront, Blackboard Jungle, The Defiant Ones, or anything--that had the large-scale impact of The Godfather or The Exorcist in terms of how much they were talked about and how much they were seen. And I'd add at least two or three others to that list.
― clemenza, Wednesday, 7 March 2018 13:01 (six years ago) link
@clemenza - I would hazard that in daily life, Rocky gets invoked far, far more often than those other films, and not just in terms of like "yo, adrian!" impressions. the resolution/meaning of the final fight and going the distance and all that, the redeemed schmuck, etc., people relate to all that and it's a useful symbol. it launched a franchise because millions of people loved it. dunno if those people were part of "the conversation" but it's a different kind of thing from nobody remembering or wanting to watch Crash/English Patient/etc.also not sure how conventional/old-fashioned it is. in its overall arc, sure, but it's very much a gritty urban 70s movie and iirc it's not really paced or lit or shot like i expected from an underdog sports movie. its closest peer in terms of palette is probably Midnight Cowboy.The Sting had an impact too, just less enduringly and less significantly. as i realized in the claustrophobic poster thread, there were a LOT of 20s-era caper films, and/or period heist films, hoping to replicate its return-on-investment. basically all of them are forgotten now of course. also sold a lot of ragtime records. minor, but still more significant to the culture at large than idk Driving Miss Daisy.
― Doctor Casino, Wednesday, 7 March 2018 13:02 (six years ago) link
but it's very much a gritty urban 70s movie
It did have a director who'd made Joe and Save the Tiger. So that's fair--it wasn't exactly the rah-rah Reagan stuff that came a decade later.
― clemenza, Wednesday, 7 March 2018 13:06 (six years ago) link
(But I still see it as a much more conventional film than the three runners-up I mentioned.)
― clemenza, Wednesday, 7 March 2018 13:08 (six years ago) link
Both of you are right.
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 7 March 2018 13:22 (six years ago) link
According to the new Saturday Night Fever Bee Gees bio I just finished, Avildsen was first pick to direct but was fired for already trying to turn every project into a Balboa picture.
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 7 March 2018 13:30 (six years ago) link
Saturday Night Fever is a film that I'd be more inclined to describe the way casino describes Rocky--misremembered as just a big box-office entertainment, but in fact very much aligned with its era, almost as dark and nasty as Taxi Driver at times.
― clemenza, Wednesday, 7 March 2018 13:46 (six years ago) link
agreed.it's funny that Rocky won, looking at the rest of the awards which were basically the Network show....
― Doctor Casino, Wednesday, 7 March 2018 13:48 (six years ago) link
know you balk at these statements, darraghmac, but there are certain films that get talked about and debated much more than others. Do the Right Thing, Thelma & Louise, Get Out--such films are big deals.
I ball, if I do, because you've already admitted this is at best subjective and at worst and a little less generously wilfully....if not elitist call it rather selective....about what counts as "talked about" and, I'd suspect, by whom
― things you looked shockingly old when you wore (darraghmac), Wednesday, 7 March 2018 14:17 (six years ago) link
I ball baby u better believe it
Rocky is as iconic a film as it gets, imo. Unlike many best picture winners. From theme to several scenes, if only for the training montage.
Agree that Saturday Night Fever is daaaaaark, a gritty '70s films juxtaposed with the least gritty '70s music.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 7 March 2018 14:19 (six years ago) link
SNF is a tough movie I'd say moreso than taxi driver which at least has an outsider protagonist
― things you looked shockingly old when you wore (darraghmac), Wednesday, 7 March 2018 14:20 (six years ago) link
Rocky was iconic to Tony Manero, who had the poster up in his bedroom in SNF
― Josefa, Wednesday, 7 March 2018 14:46 (six years ago) link
Rocky is one of the most popular films the second half of the 20th century, spawned a franchise that earned Stallone an Oscar nod in 2015 fergodsake
― piper at the gates of d'awwww (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 7 March 2018 14:51 (six years ago) link
Here's a list of Best Picture winners ranked by estimated tickets sold (source here: http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm?adjust_yr=1&p=.htm):
1. Gone with the Wind (1st overall)2. The Sound of Music (3rd overall)3. Titanic (5th overall)4. Ben-Hur (14th overall)5. The Sting (20th overall)6. The Godfather (25th overall)7. Forrest Gump (26th overall)8. Around the World in 80 Days (50th overall)9. The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (55th overall)10. My Fair Lady (61st overall)11. The Greatest Show on Earth (62nd overall)12. West Side Story (75th overall)13. Lawrence of Arabia (79th overall)14. Rocky (81st overall)15. The Best Years of Our Lives (83rd overall)
― piper at the gates of d'awwww (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 7 March 2018 15:01 (six years ago) link
As you can tell, I'm not much of a Rocky. So maybe I'm letting my own opinion interfere too much there.
― clemenza, Wednesday, 7 March 2018 15:02 (six years ago) link
Oops! "much of a Rocky fan"--the other goes without saying.
― clemenza, Wednesday, 7 March 2018 15:03 (six years ago) link
(I think I want "As you can tell, I'm not much of Rocky" on my tombstone, though.)
― clemenza, Wednesday, 7 March 2018 15:04 (six years ago) link
Ha
― things you looked shockingly old when you wore (darraghmac), Wednesday, 7 March 2018 15:10 (six years ago) link
Rocky still >> Network
― Dangleballs and the Ballerina (cryptosicko), Wednesday, 7 March 2018 15:20 (six years ago) link
Network is sooooo good except for the stuff that's pretty dumb. Or rather, there's a mismatch between the OTT satire stuff and the human drama stuff with Bill Holden (which both are viable in themselves). They collide in his big talking-at-her takedown speech with Faye Dunaway and it suddenly becomes a much meaner-spirited, lecturey movie. A slower build with the craziness of the Beale Show would also work better. I'd be okay with it winning but I also think Rocky is cool.See: 1976 Oscar Nominees
― Doctor Casino, Wednesday, 7 March 2018 15:37 (six years ago) link
Rocky owes a considerable debt to every boxing picture ever made (especially the shallow ones) as well as On the Waterfront.
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 7 March 2018 15:57 (six years ago) link
(and Marty)
(haha Paddy Chayefsky, you got played by your own formula)
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 7 March 2018 15:58 (six years ago) link
1969 Oscars: Actresses sound off on lack of roles for women. pic.twitter.com/5Gxilt3CKZ— izzycc (@lookwhoitiz) March 5, 2018
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 7 March 2018 18:07 (six years ago) link
Network isnt too far off three billboards folks.
― things you looked shockingly old when you wore (darraghmac), Wednesday, 7 March 2018 18:10 (six years ago) link
otm
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 7 March 2018 18:45 (six years ago) link
That's a great clip from '69, and credit to the five actresses for being 50 years ahead of where we are now, but I'm not sure if 2001 or The Battle of Algiers are the best films to target (or the complaint that a newcomer has the lead in Romeo and Juliet). I know, I know, it's meant to be partly lighthearted.
― clemenza, Wednesday, 7 March 2018 20:52 (six years ago) link
I mean, they could've at least nominated Polanski for Rosemary's Baby or Cassavetes for Faces to short circuit the argument if only a tad.
― "Minneapolis" (barf) (Eric H.), Wednesday, 7 March 2018 21:19 (six years ago) link
Also ...
5. The Sting (20th overall)6. The Godfather (25th overall)
I know I've seen it spelled out time and again, but I can not fathom The Sting being the culture-swallowing event that by all indications it was.
― "Minneapolis" (barf) (Eric H.), Wednesday, 7 March 2018 21:28 (six years ago) link
It had two huge movie stars and there was the whole Scott Joplin revival, I guess. That's it. I was there!
It's a function of a movie sticking around in theaters for 18 months and people saying "let's go see Newman and Redford." I believe there was also a re-release tagline, "The con is better the second time around."
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 7 March 2018 21:39 (six years ago) link
The Sting is - how you say? - a piffle.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 7 March 2018 21:40 (six years ago) link
xpost Maybe that was the tag for the sequel?
I mean, there are worse simple entertainments. Like The Sting II, I suppose.
I don't think it was for the sequel.
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 7 March 2018 21:44 (six years ago) link
The sting is great fun I wouldn't necessarily defend it as best picture tbf
― things you looked shockingly old when you wore (darraghmac), Wednesday, 7 March 2018 21:54 (six years ago) link
1973 was a weak Bedt Picture year. Only Cries and Whispers is remotely great.
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 7 March 2018 22:00 (six years ago) link
my god A Touch of Class.
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 7 March 2018 22:06 (six years ago) link
The Sting might be the most movie-as-comfort-food endeavor I've seen
― mh, Wednesday, 7 March 2018 22:12 (six years ago) link
like your average Dozvzhenko?
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 7 March 2018 22:14 (six years ago) link
Is it really any lesser than Butch Cassidy? (Maybe a little.) It just gets dumped on for winning the Oscar.
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 7 March 2018 22:21 (six years ago) link
It's a lot tighter than butch cassidy
― things you looked shockingly old when you wore (darraghmac), Wednesday, 7 March 2018 22:26 (six years ago) link