wow yeah locally that must've be so huge
― The Desus & Mero Chain (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 26 March 2018 02:31 (six years ago) link
I've made it through 4 episodes and am finding it kind of boring, primarily in terms of giving too much time to Sheela, the lawyer, the dimwitted true believers and the residents of Antelope. I grew up in Western Australia and have a number of friends whose parents were Sannyasins and their stories were fascinating. In many cases their descriptions of life growing up in this environment were fairly sordid but often with a kind of conflicted view about whether their experiences could be categorized as good or bad. Ultimately I found this documentary a bit empty & the hazy filtered cinematography & soundtrack were just annoying.
Also this is probably obvious but I think people who were into the Rajneesh are today's antivaxxers
― badg, Monday, 26 March 2018 03:56 (six years ago) link
I did not think of this, but it makes a lot of sense now you say it.
They addressed this in passing but I wish there was more.
I agree with this, and with badg. Overall I enjoyed the programme because I knew nothing at all about any of what happened, but six hours to tell only that particular strand of the story was too long. But maybe that was how they secured the cooperation of such key figures - by not dragging the whole belief system through the mud.
― trishyb, Monday, 26 March 2018 09:11 (six years ago) link
yeah really recommend the oregonian series which goes into the tax evasion in india, analysis of it as a cult including consideration of conditions for the rank and file etc
― ||||||||, Monday, 26 March 2018 10:47 (six years ago) link
I would think directly the opposite. Anti-vaccine people are more likely to be conservative and pro-life. Rajneesh was v pro-choice, also an advocate of euthanasia, in general believed in science as a benefit to humankind.
― motorpsycho nightmare winningham (Hadrian VIII), Monday, 26 March 2018 11:38 (six years ago) link
- John Silvertooth is a chill bro (and certainly didn’t vote for Trump)! The dump reveal was huge for everyone interested in this story!
my fave part of the story, he was wonderful.and the way he summed up the whole thing as just being a way to con rich white folks looking for something .. i really really began to hate the lawyer bloke who welled up every time he thought back.became a little too showbiz for me every time he came on.
― mark e, Monday, 26 March 2018 11:59 (six years ago) link
i hate the lawyer, too. i can see why people would think this is boring, especially if you know something about it already. it's refreshing to see a story about something big that seems so forgotten now, to me. i will read the oregonian thing.
― forensic plumber (harbl), Monday, 26 March 2018 12:37 (six years ago) link
Anti-vaccine people are more likely to be conservative and pro-life.
The parents of Marin County would argue differently.
― One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Monday, 26 March 2018 12:56 (six years ago) link
Sheela is a two michelin star restaurant in Marin county known for its grilled bananas.
― cthulhu original (Sufjan Grafton), Monday, 26 March 2018 14:35 (six years ago) link
i did like the idea that should i ever decide to go on such a journey of self discovery and enlightenment, i will still be able to swear like a fucking trooper.
― mark e, Monday, 26 March 2018 14:47 (six years ago) link
favourite moment: osho gingerly retreating to backstage, closely followed by a couple of fully armed sannyasins in full-on jodorovsky style.
― tonga, Monday, 26 March 2018 15:37 (six years ago) link
this doesn’t square with my experience at all, most anti-vaxxers I know are very liberal, pro-choice etc
This includes a handful of Ramtha followers, so badg otm ime
― sciatica, Monday, 26 March 2018 16:11 (six years ago) link
this is a pretty interesting look at it
https://theconversation.com/anti-vaccination-beliefs-dont-follow-the-usual-political-polarization-81001
Now it is only the very conservative who are more likely to think that it should not be mandatory: they are twice as likely as moderates to think that it should be a parent’s choice. Liberals are now more likely to think vaccination should be required: Compared to moderates, liberals are 43.5 percent less likely to think it should be a parent’s choice and those who are very liberal are 14.2 percent less likely.
― motorpsycho nightmare winningham (Hadrian VIII), Monday, 26 March 2018 16:33 (six years ago) link
Whatever the case Rajneesh himself does not appear to have been anti-science or hold views consistent with anti-vaxxers
― motorpsycho nightmare winningham (Hadrian VIII), Monday, 26 March 2018 16:34 (six years ago) link
I think some of the sexual health paranoia mentioned upthread is a different strain of counter-scientific thought but not that different
― mh, Monday, 26 March 2018 17:00 (six years ago) link
they infected some live beavers, but couldn't squeeze them into the water tank. so they killed and blended the beavers and poured that in? the whole thing makes me question whether the beavers were even necessary.
― Tapes 'n Tapes of Osho (Sufjan Grafton), Thursday, 29 March 2018 18:36 (six years ago) link
According to Knapp’s FBI testimony, he alleged “Sheela told him during a trip to India which they took in 1985, that she had injected her first husband with an injection that caused his death.” He added, “Sheela said that Puja furnished her with the instrument which she used to inject Silverman, and after the injection he died,” and it occurred “June 11 and 12, 1980, at the Krishna House where Silverman and Sheela resided.” Knapp claimed that Sheela had “discussed this plan of the ‘mercy killing’ of her husband with Bhagwan and that Bhagwan had referred to Silverman in one of his discourses just prior to Silverman’s death.”
Lots of stuff here speaking to question of Bhagwan culpability + more poisoning and murder plots (!)
https://www.thedailybeast.com/wild-wild-country-the-most-shocking-reveals-from-the-sex-cults-fbi-informant?ref=home
― DACA Flocka Flame (Hadrian VIII), Monday, 2 April 2018 15:42 (six years ago) link
Sunny's bio on this page has some omissions, for surehttps://www.hawaii.edu/offices/op/csw/2013speakers.html
― mh, Monday, 2 April 2018 16:44 (six years ago) link
omg she has a youtube channel
― mh, Monday, 2 April 2018 16:45 (six years ago) link
author of the bio does not seem to believe it, e.g. "Dr. Sunny Massad says that she has always been an unconventional thinker."
― Tapes 'n Tapes of Osho (Sufjan Grafton), Monday, 2 April 2018 17:00 (six years ago) link
i dont love the lack/absence of investigative inquiry in this. sheela, sunny, the stephen king lawyer; and the attorney general & antelopens; they all get so much camera time but there’s no-one outside these inner circles saying “ok cool but ... why? what do you mean etc”i kinda hate this style of documentary. you get two very set points of view & there’s no air between them for any real daylight. it feels very misleading and i agree with badg that it’s def kinda boring. i get that the only way sheela wd participate is if it’s The Sheela Show diaguised as a well-rounded documentary but jfc
― Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 2 April 2018 20:39 (six years ago) link
haven't read the thread yet as only a couple of episodes in but I was amazed that I hadn't heard of this. I asked my parents whether they knew of it at the time in England (I was only young) - they didn't, because we were in our own commune and apparently weren't reading newspapers or watching tv...The documentary is kind of annoying me at the moment cos there're loads of questions I would want to ask but they don't seem to be asking them.
― kinder, Monday, 2 April 2018 20:50 (six years ago) link
or what vg said!
Agree ^^^ I am finding it very boring as well. 2 episodes in and I am thinking of dropping it.
― Yerac, Monday, 2 April 2018 20:55 (six years ago) link
there are interesting moments, it’s not a total waste. but they’re so inlove with their souce material it comes off more as an art piece than anything informative and i fkn hate the overuse of music in this, it makes it too glib for a shorter, funnier overview The Dollop podcast did a pretty good recaphttp://thedollop.libsyn.com/acharya-rajneesh
― Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 2 April 2018 21:01 (six years ago) link
Something about interviews...maybe it's the slow editing.
― Yerac, Monday, 2 April 2018 21:07 (six years ago) link
I loved the music in this, but I also love Bill Callahan's music.
― Tapes 'n Tapes of Osho (Sufjan Grafton), Monday, 2 April 2018 21:13 (six years ago) link
this is an unexpected first hit from searching for this guy:http://www.oregonlive.com/playbooks-profits/index.ssf/2014/08/jon_bowerman_son_of_nike_legen.html
― Tapes 'n Tapes of Osho (Sufjan Grafton), Monday, 2 April 2018 21:28 (six years ago) link
I will admit to being one who assumed he had some Nike money
― Tapes 'n Tapes of Osho (Sufjan Grafton), Monday, 2 April 2018 21:29 (six years ago) link
yeah wow
― Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 2 April 2018 21:39 (six years ago) link
VG saying a lot of what I felt. This was probably one of the most dissatisfying docs I’ve ever seen. I didn’t come away from it feeling like I really learned anything. I didn’t trust any of the subjects except Silvertooth, so then I didn’t believe anybody. Osho came across like a total nobody and it was never really explored why he was a famed guru - it was just a lot of “he’s so beautiful and amazing “ with nothing to back it up.
Sheela came across as a sociopath.
― just1n3, Monday, 2 April 2018 23:18 (six years ago) link
I feel like they came up with the angle (Sheela’s heavy-handed tactics versus the locals) early in development or filming and rolled with it. Fair, but it’s a frustrating thing to follow when every tangent seems more tantalizing and we’re left wondering whether that was really the truth of what was going on and we can’t grasp the real dynamic inside the group
― mh, Monday, 2 April 2018 23:37 (six years ago) link
agree this was really unsatisfying
― johnny crunch, Tuesday, 3 April 2018 02:46 (six years ago) link
its insane to me that the investigative reporter for the Oregonian is introduced in ep 5 & is maybe used three or four times total. He should be the thread pulling this nonsense together & helping provide context throughout!!!
― Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 3 April 2018 02:50 (six years ago) link
I think the storytelling was satisfying. Seeing this stuff for the first time, I enjoyed the large amount spent with the weird characters. Had a good time guessing who was full of shit and by how much.
― Tapes 'n Tapes of Osho (Sufjan Grafton), Tuesday, 3 April 2018 03:17 (six years ago) link
it was rather unrewarding to live through, too.
― A is for (Aimless), Tuesday, 3 April 2018 04:22 (six years ago) link
Is there any sort of theme to each episode or is it all just meandering until the end?
― Yerac, Tuesday, 3 April 2018 13:15 (six years ago) link
Rajneeshpuram and what happened, chronologically
― Tapes 'n Tapes of Osho (Sufjan Grafton), Tuesday, 3 April 2018 13:49 (six years ago) link
I might give one more episode a try. The subject matter is so interesting, but I just can't get into it.
― Yerac, Tuesday, 3 April 2018 13:53 (six years ago) link
Despite all the hair raising details, they did seem like they could throw a goid disco party/orgy.
― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Tuesday, 3 April 2018 13:57 (six years ago) link
*good
― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Tuesday, 3 April 2018 13:58 (six years ago) link
I like how so far they just put in 2-4 second clips/mentions of the orgies and that's it.
― Yerac, Tuesday, 3 April 2018 14:11 (six years ago) link
I'm starting to get into this a bit more. Shella is ice cold. I kind of like that. This also makes me want to watch The Last of Sheila again.
― Yerac, Tuesday, 3 April 2018 21:59 (six years ago) link
Episode 4. I am sure it takes a bad turn but as of now, Sheela should be on t-shirts. If she had stopped here...amazing.
― Yerac, Thursday, 5 April 2018 01:40 (six years ago) link
Maybe it's because I already knew her story before I saw the doc but I don't get the love of Sheela. She just seems like such an awful self-aggrandizing manipulative human being.
― Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 5 April 2018 01:54 (six years ago) link
I mean, to me Sheela and Bhagwhan are just the two heads of the same snake eating its own tail.
― Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 5 April 2018 01:56 (six years ago) link
I guess in the current climate, I'm impressed by her (a brown woman in the 80s) ability to completely turn Oregon upside down and out their bigotry in such a blatant way. And she laughs at them. Of course she may not have been the soul mastermind. My spouse watched parts of it and kept asking why Bhagwan never talks. He and I both have no memory of any of this (he was born '73 and me '78). i need to re-read this entire thread once I am done with the series.
― Yerac, Thursday, 5 April 2018 13:16 (six years ago) link
I'm still going with thisthe blended beavers story though
― kinder, Monday, 9 April 2018 10:33 (six years ago) link
the amount of video footage is amazing though
― kinder, Monday, 9 April 2018 11:18 (six years ago) link
welp glad to see that sheela has found fulfilling employment umm caring for vulnerable adults
― kinder, Monday, 9 April 2018 12:24 (six years ago) link
wish someone would've poisoned them
because turnabout is fair play?
― A is for (Aimless), Wednesday, 27 February 2019 23:55 (five years ago) link
Something about rural Oregon attracts morons.
Late in his career, Les Zaitz, the Oregonian reporter interviewed in the series, did much of the reporting on the occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, so, yeah.
― Françoise, Laurel, and Hardy (K. Rrosé), Thursday, 28 February 2019 15:50 (five years ago) link
Almost none of the occupiers at Malhuer were from Oregon. They may have been attracted, but they came from Nevada, Arizona, Montana, Idaho and similar places.
― A is for (Aimless), Thursday, 28 February 2019 17:07 (five years ago) link