He's never going to go away, is he
― jmm, Monday, 23 April 2018 17:46 (six years ago) link
I mean the way they portrayed him on the show elided all of the worst stuff JP has said. In isolation he came off OK on the show. Would've been nice if they quoted or played clips of what he's actually said about transpeople.
― flappy bird, Monday, 23 April 2018 17:47 (six years ago) link
I think like a lot of these figures his audience will dwindle to a small amount of true believers (and then continue to shrink) rather soon. He's not canny enough to reinvent himself in order to keep up with the modern attention cycle. Only someone like Trump can do that and he had to become president to do it.
― ryan, Monday, 23 April 2018 17:55 (six years ago) link
Thought this was a fairly decent yarn
https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/03/the-intellectual-we-deserve
― after party for the apocalypse (Ross), Monday, 23 April 2018 18:00 (six years ago) link
whoever it was that said "oh, we need to *educate* these people" should read one of the many many NYT articles about how Trump voters still love Trump, despite the fact that he's done fuck all to help them
― frogbs, Monday, 23 April 2018 18:00 (six years ago) link
feel like this guy is just the latest version of Camille Paglia or Richard Dawkins or any number of other "controversial" academic media-figures that manages to push people's buttons. Eventually the luster/novelty fades and no one gives a shit anymore.
― Οὖτις, Monday, 23 April 2018 18:08 (six years ago) link
All these charlatans just stay in their circle. But the idea that he is 'the most influential intellectual' or whatever seems to have come and gone. At the end he has written a popular self-help book.
― Frederik B, Monday, 23 April 2018 18:12 (six years ago) link
just another daddy figure who will disappoint in the end, i figure
― omar little, Monday, 23 April 2018 18:13 (six years ago) link
Alas, the odds that Kanye gives him another signal boost in the next little bit are pretty solid
― Simon H., Monday, 23 April 2018 18:13 (six years ago) link
Listened to one of his interviews with Joe Rogan a few weeks ago. I like the self-help jibberjabber, but every five minutes it would be punctuated by "...and these postmodern neomarxists on the left want eqwolity of oatcome!" What might be a good self-help author who doesn't have issues?
And can someone explain the postmodernism thing to me? I don't know anything about postmodernist philosophy, but the art has always seemed very nice.
― how's life, Monday, 23 April 2018 18:23 (six years ago) link
You want book recommendations, or you want an explanation of the whole 'postmodern marxism ruined western civilization' spiel?
― Frederik B, Monday, 23 April 2018 18:37 (six years ago) link
re: self-help, I hear good things about David Smail's stuff.
― Simon H., Monday, 23 April 2018 18:38 (six years ago) link
Fred, book reccos for the self-help stuff. I'm hoping for just a precis on the postmodern boogieman.
― how's life, Monday, 23 April 2018 18:40 (six years ago) link
the best 'postmodernism' is so amazing and ethical, i just don't get the kneejerk response.
― you bet, nancy (map), Monday, 23 April 2018 18:44 (six years ago) link
any critique of power is so suggestive about all sorts of new possibilities, why are people so fucking scared of that? people suck
― you bet, nancy (map), Monday, 23 April 2018 18:47 (six years ago) link
how's life if you want conservative up-its-own-ass self-help without so many explicit problems and a bit more openness from a poet's perspective check out 'iron john'.
― you bet, nancy (map), Monday, 23 April 2018 18:50 (six years ago) link
really though everyone needs to read bell hooks
― you bet, nancy (map), Monday, 23 April 2018 18:55 (six years ago) link
I've just always taken the 'postmodern marxism' thing to be like this: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/78mnny/unwrapping-the-conspiracy-theory-that-drives-the-alt-right Though less tainted by literal nazis.
For real postmodernism, I'd say read Lyotard. Short and good. The Postmodern Condition is the classic, that defines the problem as the lack of grand narratives. The Differend is even better, dealing with truth and politics, and Just Gaming is an attempt at defining a new ethics without narratives, based on gaming. 'Just Gaming' Get it?
― Frederik B, Monday, 23 April 2018 19:18 (six years ago) link
i'd go with deleuze & guattari, derrida and foucault. there's more juice in a single paragraph written by any of them than anything this peterson shithead could possibly conceive of. i've only read a little but roland barthes is fun. alain badiou for something more contemporary. why are all these jordan peterson types scared so shitless of feminism? at it's best it's some of the most rigorous, bracing truth anyone can read!
i think science and technology studies has a lot of force to push back against the "science is god" people like maher. i.e. bruno latour, "we have never been modern," which is a pretty great title imo
We Have Never Been Modern is a 1991 book by Bruno Latour, originally published in French as Nous n'avons jamais été modernes : Essai d'anthropologie symétrique (English translation: 1993).[1]
The book is an "anthropology of science" that explores the dualistic distinction modernity makes between nature and society. Pre-modern peoples, argues Latour, made no such division. Contemporary matters of public concern such as global warming, the HIV/AIDS pandemic and emerging biotechnologies mix politics, science, popular and specialist discourse to such a degree that a tidy nature/culture dualism is no longer possible. This inconsistency has given rise to post-modern and anti-modern movements. Latour attempts to reconnect the social and natural worlds by arguing that the modernist distinction between nature and culture never existed. He claims we must rework our thinking to conceive of a "Parliament of Things" wherein natural phenomena, social phenomena and the discourse about them are not seen as separate objects to be studied by specialists, but as hybrids made and scrutinized by the public interaction of people, things and concepts.[2][3]
also: david harvey (geography background), who is very readable on space and capital
― you bet, nancy (map), Tuesday, 24 April 2018 05:44 (six years ago) link
Walker Percy’s Lost in the Cosmos is a fun one.
― El Tomboto, Tuesday, 24 April 2018 05:48 (six years ago) link
STS should be taught in high school
― rob, Tuesday, 24 April 2018 12:18 (six years ago) link
i uh waht
https://i.imgur.com/qCDdu4E.jpg
― Mahogany Loggins (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 24 April 2018 12:40 (six years ago) link
https://www.etsy.com/search?q=jordan%20peterson
― how's life, Tuesday, 24 April 2018 12:43 (six years ago) link
i thought i'd found the worst manifestation of peterson fandom but you effortlessly beat it, kudos
― Mahogany Loggins (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 24 April 2018 12:44 (six years ago) link
Everyone hustling trying to make those JP bucks.
― how's life, Tuesday, 24 April 2018 12:47 (six years ago) link
i don't know he seems more milo than dawkins. the alt-right stole a lot from the left, but the thing i'm most gratified about is their tendency to eat their own.
― ziggy the ginhead (rushomancy), Tuesday, 24 April 2018 14:13 (six years ago) link
there is a very weird and very present vaporwave/alt-right crossover
― global tetrahedron, Tuesday, 24 April 2018 14:29 (six years ago) link
there's also a strange convergence between the "incel" running down people in toronto and this thread
― El Tomboto, Tuesday, 24 April 2018 14:47 (six years ago) link
Shocking, utterly.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 24 April 2018 14:49 (six years ago) link
i mentioned the ATD mixtapes on the vaporwave thread a few weeks ago.guess he is trying to pick up some traction give that he ditched the whole uk hip hop thing a few years ago when it was an obvious dead end for him.other than the fact JP is really not my thing, the main problem is that JPs voice just aint right for vocal cut-up/mixtape action.
― mark e, Tuesday, 24 April 2018 15:53 (six years ago) link
Man does this dude dish out well worn platitudes. He gets paid millions to coach on self help banalities like “control what you can control” - well duh. Only thing he says I think is helpful is how people need to find their own passion to feel connected, otherwise you may just feel empty working 9-5. But that’s obvious too
― after party for the apocalypse (Ross), Wednesday, 25 April 2018 16:56 (six years ago) link
LOBSTERVATION COFFEE MUG
― kurt schwitterz, Wednesday, 25 April 2018 19:33 (six years ago) link
so did jordan peterson actually make that movie "the lobster"? i can't figure out what's going on anymore
― ziggy the ginhead (rushomancy), Wednesday, 25 April 2018 23:40 (six years ago) link
this dude's so obsessed with helping the fringe lunatics see the light that it begs the question - who hurt U?
clearly his wallets not hurting with 36 thousand in donations a month
― done and dusted (Ross), Thursday, 26 April 2018 06:13 (six years ago) link
when i think lobsters i think Deleuze and Guattari so this whole thing would be tremendously confusing if i ever read anything about JorPee
― songs by bands by Sondheim (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 26 April 2018 07:53 (six years ago) link
my wife posted an old picture of me wearing a stupid novelty lobster hat on facebook yesterday and all i could think was 'shit i hope no-one thinks i'm a jordan peterson stan'
he has ruined lobsters for at least a generation imo
― Mahogany Loggins (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 26 April 2018 09:11 (six years ago) link
nah he's still a pond shrimp
― songs by bands by Sondheim (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 26 April 2018 09:18 (six years ago) link
God is a lobster or a double-claw, a double bind. It is not only the strata which pair up into twos at the very least, but in another fashion each strata is double (it will itself have many levels). Each strata presents, in effect, phenomena constitutive of a double articulation.
― songs by bands by Sondheim (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 26 April 2018 09:20 (six years ago) link
interesting piece by Wesley Yang: https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a19834137/jordan-peterson-interview/
― VC, Tuesday, 8 May 2018 02:43 (six years ago) link
Yang's level of credulity toward JP is a bit troubling but I think he sort of successfully shows why someone who didn't know how to begin calling JP on his bullshit might find his message compelling
― VC, Tuesday, 8 May 2018 02:50 (six years ago) link
Perry Anderson to thread re: "postmodern Marxism"
― VC, Tuesday, 8 May 2018 02:53 (six years ago) link
'A bit troubling'? Lol
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 8 May 2018 06:21 (six years ago) link
yang: "Increasingly one hears that the problem menacing the world today is not the excesses of masculinity, but masculinity itself. That masculinity itself must—and can—be eradicated."
who says this
― adam the (abanana), Tuesday, 8 May 2018 06:48 (six years ago) link
all the bad people on ilx who must be trolled
― hepatitis groan (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 8 May 2018 07:42 (six years ago) link
got ya postmodern irony RIGHT HERE
― hepatitis groan (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 8 May 2018 07:44 (six years ago) link
Christ almighty at that interview, lol:
I noted that while we still read the canonical thinkers who presumed to address the big questions, nobody attempted to write in such a mode anymore. “People told me that the time for the great theories in psychology is over,” he said. “I said, ‘It might be over for you, but it’s not over for me.’ ”
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 8 May 2018 08:12 (six years ago) link
Peterson made plain that he was speaking out against the enforced adoption of an unscientific political terminology, and not to denigrate the transgendered. Yet it was easy to call it an act of hate and harassment directed at a vulnerable minority, and many did.
Yes, seeing as there was no 'enforced adoption', it was quite easy to call it something else.
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 8 May 2018 08:14 (six years ago) link
the police literally forced him to recognize somebody else's preferred mode of address rather than the absolutely correct scientific terminology handed down at the creation of time
― hepatitis groan (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 8 May 2018 08:28 (six years ago) link
language isn't science except when it is science when all of a sudden it's an absolutely transparent reference to unshakeable prelinguistic taxonomy
― hepatitis groan (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 8 May 2018 08:30 (six years ago) link
it's not just that he's wicked, or that he's a wicked moron, it's that he's a wicked moron i've already spent 5 minutes thinking about this morning because i couldn't be arsed to do something else