*nor do they
― Nerdstrom Poindexter, Friday, 21 September 2018 06:25 (five years ago) link
Have you reacted this way to lots of spending bills previously? Is it a regulator thing where you see how much money is allocated and you’re like “whoa whoa whoa whoa”
no I haven't! This is probably the first, to be honest
I'm prepared to accept that I'm not clued up enough, and that worse things have happened and I didn't realize, or question them at the time!
But thats why I want to know! Am i being persuaded into thinking this is worse than it is? Possibly! Can I be persuaded back? Possibly!
I'm not upset by the bill per se. I'm surprised by the bill, and then disquieted that I can't understand the reasoning. Where i became 'upset' was that I couldn't find a rationale, and none of the people pro the bill were prepared to give me an answer
― anvil, Friday, 21 September 2018 06:28 (five years ago) link
surprized by the fact every democratic voted for it, i mean
― anvil, Friday, 21 September 2018 06:29 (five years ago) link
oh I hadn't even thought about the primary everyone bit. I dont...actually really have a take, just wanted an answer so i could understand better, then got a bit riled up when there wasn't one
― anvil, Friday, 21 September 2018 06:31 (five years ago) link
Bit of a detour, but to try and put more succinctly
I'm not riled up by the bill
I'm riled up that every single Democrat voted to both expand military spending and work with the Republicans and I don't know why and can't find a proper rationale. I'm prepared to accept there is one, i just want to know what it is
I'm riled up that this is happening right before the midterms, and I don't understand the optics, of being perceived as the war party and why they are not coming out to defend against that. I also don't understand why they are happy to be seen to be colloborating with Trump, righg before the midterms and doesnt this take the wind out of the sails of the base
I'm riled up that in the face of seemingly bad optics the senators above just seem not to be answering and I don't know why
I'm riled up that I don't understand. And not understanding something is always irritating!
― anvil, Friday, 21 September 2018 06:40 (five years ago) link
Sorry for derail everyone, I usually try not to repeat-post!
― anvil, Friday, 21 September 2018 06:42 (five years ago) link
Just slightly upthread there’s “let’s primary every democrat that voted for this one spending bill regardless if they would have never done/will strongly oppose the very dangerous Iran Deal pullout”
So your assumption is that the progressive primary challenger who wouldn't have voted for the obscene defense spending bill would not oppose Trump re: Iran Deal or possible war.That makes loads of sense.
Still not an either/or situation.
Being performatively upset
― louise ck (milo z), Friday, 21 September 2018 07:01 (five years ago) link
blood is the mother's milk of the American empire
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 21 September 2018 07:02 (five years ago) link
“ I also don't understand why they are happy to be seen to be colloborating with Trump, righg before the midterms and doesnt this take the wind out of the sails of the base”
Agreeing to military funding doesn't really register as collaborating with Trump. Military civilian relations are much broader and complex than who the president happens to be. Military spending isn’t pro war. It’s very distinct from decisions related to intervention.
― Nerdstrom Poindexter, Friday, 21 September 2018 07:36 (five years ago) link
Thanks! I'd still prefer a clearer message on the positive benefits of the increased spending though!
I don't use social media so I've probably missed out on people's reasoning for why its good, but I've now emailed some friends i know that might answer. If any of them do think its a good idea I will report back and post their reasoning here.
― anvil, Friday, 21 September 2018 07:55 (five years ago) link
Also, anyone in particular worth reading, who is good/trustworthy on this? Either for increased military spending in general, or preferably purely in the context of this particular bill and the timing of it?
― anvil, Friday, 21 September 2018 08:03 (five years ago) link
Military spending isn’t pro war.
you're delusional and I'm done negotiating with you in good faith
you clearly represent the worst sort of liberal politics, which I reject
good luck selling millenials on this garbage
― sleeve, Friday, 21 September 2018 13:58 (five years ago) link
fuckin Gabbneb Mk II up in here, even the condescension is the same
― sleeve, Friday, 21 September 2018 13:59 (five years ago) link
You didn’t know what the Iran Deal is.
― Nerdstrom Poindexter, Friday, 21 September 2018 14:14 (five years ago) link
Having the appropriate knowledge or opinion of the Iran Deal surely shouldn't be a pre-requisite of getting an answer as to why its a good idea for Democrats to vote for increased military spending though?
― anvil, Friday, 21 September 2018 14:27 (five years ago) link
If i was pro iran deal, anti iran deal, or though the iran deal was card game, I still should be able to get a straight answer to this question!
― anvil, Friday, 21 September 2018 14:29 (five years ago) link
That Nerdstrom interprets "what's that got to do with it?" as "I don't know what that is" doesn't say much for their reading comprehension, frankly.
― Daniel_Rf, Friday, 21 September 2018 14:29 (five years ago) link
so far the only coherent defense for voting "yea" on this seems to be "jobs!". wonder if there's some other job-creating projects that might help counter the stuff that's actually way, way more likely to kill us all than anything the military-industrial complex can handle.
― wayne trotsky (Simon H.), Friday, 21 September 2018 14:31 (five years ago) link
build ten million units of high-quality public housing in ten years, replace every lead water main in the nation, clean up a thousand superfund sites, build fifty new transit systems and address long-deferred system expansions in existing ones. build a thousand solar power plants, restore and improve ten thousand neighborhood parks, build a million new elementary schools to reduce crowding. call it the "war on everything being all worn out and shitty all the time." or the "war on three decades of pretending there is no money for any of these things."
― |Restore| |Restart| |Quit| (Doctor Casino), Friday, 21 September 2018 14:42 (five years ago) link
Doc for prez
― wayne trotsky (Simon H.), Friday, 21 September 2018 14:42 (five years ago) link
i've already secured the most critical endorsement
― |Restore| |Restart| |Quit| (Doctor Casino), Friday, 21 September 2018 14:43 (five years ago) link
but convincing middle ILMerica is another ball game and if our polling model is to be trusted i face an uphill battle
― |Restore| |Restart| |Quit| (Doctor Casino), Friday, 21 September 2018 14:44 (five years ago) link
shouldn't we be taking that money and giving it all away in one big megajackpot lotto drawing?
― Karl Malone, Friday, 21 September 2018 15:16 (five years ago) link
Doc Casino, I like your version of Infrastructure Week.
― A is for (Aimless), Friday, 21 September 2018 20:19 (five years ago) link
sadly it is a watered down, corporate-dem shell in comparison to the earlier, more ambitious program laid out in the basic income thread some months back. the campaign trail has just been one long sellout.
― |Restore| |Restart| |Quit| (Doctor Casino), Friday, 21 September 2018 20:38 (five years ago) link
love the mastery with which complexity is shell gamed into a pudding politic itt
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 21 September 2018 21:16 (five years ago) link
"the largest and most lethal employer on the planet is complicated, you guys, lets not raise questions about whether endlessly inflating their budget could have anything to do with 20 years of war"
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 21 September 2018 21:18 (five years ago) link
Military spending isn’t pro war. It’s very distinct from decisions related to intervention.
This is hilarious, did you manage to keep a straight face while typing it?
― louise ck (milo z), Friday, 21 September 2018 21:19 (five years ago) link
the largest and most lethal employer on the planet
new board description?
― crüt, Friday, 21 September 2018 21:22 (five years ago) link
by the way nerdstrom just to inoculate in advance i've been complaining about the NDAA for 15 years and built digital infrastructure enabling thousands of constituent calls to demand saving the iran deal so don't fucking try it with me
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 21 September 2018 21:23 (five years ago) link
Great. Glad you agree with me saying saving the deal was way more important than this spending bill.
― Nerdstrom Poindexter, Friday, 21 September 2018 21:26 (five years ago) link
v convenient that this unpleasant & condescending poster is called Nerdstrom Poindexter
― crüt, Friday, 21 September 2018 21:29 (five years ago) link
Woah hey that’s out of line.
― Nerdstrom Poindexter, Friday, 21 September 2018 21:35 (five years ago) link
saving the deal was way more important than this spending bill
― louise ck (milo z), Friday, 21 September 2018 21:37 (five years ago) link
― Nerdstrom Poindexter, Friday, September 21, 2018 4:35 PM (five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
you named yourself, man
― nba jungboy (voodoo chili), Friday, 21 September 2018 21:41 (five years ago) link
Doesn’t matter. Crut’s post was a transgression against the standards of this great community.
Xpost The “primary everyone” post about it is extremely stock ”both parties are the same”. I’ve found (anecdotally) that most people who get loudly worked up about stuff like that didnt seem to care about the Iran Deal, which is interesting imo.
― Nerdstrom Poindexter, Friday, 21 September 2018 21:48 (five years ago) link
Get a new shtick, this one is boring
― faculty w1fe (silby), Friday, 21 September 2018 22:16 (five years ago) link
fwiw i have no idea how you get from "primary everyone" to "both parties are the same." i feel like this only makes sense if you're refusing to believe posters who tell you they perceive these politicians as being "good" on some issues and "bad" on others... like if you were ignoring those posts or reading them as "i see these politicians as all-bad" then i guess you could get to "i see these politicians as indistinguishable from republicans"........... i guess. or are you saying that a democrat being primaried equals a win for a republican and so that would only make sense if someone thought both parties are the same....... i mean this is a lot of work so maybe it'd be better to start from assuming people mean the actual thing they type rather than some other position that they didn't, ymmv tho
― |Restore| |Restart| |Quit| (Doctor Casino), Friday, 21 September 2018 22:27 (five years ago) link
The initial “primary everyone” post and subsequent defenses of it had nothing remotely close to reasonable mentality of “these politicians are good on some things but bad on others” so no I can’t refuse to believe something no one told me.
If you’re not treating “vote out the GOP” as an imperative now with stakes as high as possible and letting one spending bill turn you into an Intercept comment section then yeah you’re helping the GOP.
― Nerdstrom Poindexter, Friday, 21 September 2018 23:05 (five years ago) link
I’ve found (anecdotally) that most people who get loudly worked up about stuff like that didnt seem to care about the Iran Deal, which is interesting imo.
No, you haven't.
― louise ck (milo z), Friday, 21 September 2018 23:28 (five years ago) link
Yes, I have. The posts by Sleeve for example (which you might have seen and are in this very thread) represent this exact type.
― Nerdstrom Poindexter, Friday, 21 September 2018 23:50 (five years ago) link
ah, so by 'anecdotal people' you meant 'phantoms I've created in my head.'
No one posting in this thread doesn't care about the Iran Deal, it appears that you're just the only person who considers the issues mutually exclusive.
― louise ck (milo z), Saturday, 22 September 2018 00:01 (five years ago) link
Sure
― Nerdstrom Poindexter, Saturday, 22 September 2018 00:11 (five years ago) link
Nerdlinger isn't wrong that the Jill Stein types who will readily holler about the NDAA have a myopic high volume disdain for anything related to the Obama legacy and so might not leap to defend the Iran deal.
Where Nerdlinger is wrong is in imagining these are the same people interested in primarying Democrats. If anything these people tend to think the Dems are a fool's game. The people working to shift the party have wholly separate motivations, intentions, strategies and key players. By repeatedly conflating the two Nerdy is just slipping on his own banana peel over and over.
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Saturday, 22 September 2018 01:16 (five years ago) link
So for God's sake shut the fuck up already
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Saturday, 22 September 2018 01:17 (five years ago) link
hoos u clearly been spending more time on your sweet science lately than your meditation practice
: o
― j., Saturday, 22 September 2018 01:31 (five years ago) link
No @Hoosteen. Sleeeve’s posts in this thread exist so we can just agree that it’s extremely a thing.
― Nerdstrom Poindexter, Saturday, 22 September 2018 01:51 (five years ago) link
pugilistic hoos is one of my favorite sides of the variegated hoos
― gbx, Saturday, 22 September 2018 01:55 (five years ago) link
love the "one person's arguments on a message board means there's a monolith out there" approach to argumentation
― wayne trotsky (Simon H.), Saturday, 22 September 2018 02:07 (five years ago) link
I guess that’s better than weirdly denying his arguments were obviously indicative of that point of view.
Maybe there are odd emotional ties on here because he poured his heart out on a strokes thread fifteen years ago or something.
― Nerdstrom Poindexter, Saturday, 22 September 2018 02:12 (five years ago) link