Democratic (Party) Direction

i still want to find someone to take a run at schrader in OR-5, dude is the bluest of blue dogs

― Clay

reddest surely

i would love them to find someone to run against schrader in clackamas and i would love them to do a better job than the colossal fuck-up they went through trying to get knute's old seat

I've seen references to Ojeda being #problematic but I can't seem to find any more concrete info. His hardman act makes me kinda uncomfortable tbh

― wayne trotsky (Simon H.), Thursday, November 22, 2018 2:37 PM (nine minutes ago)

yeahhhhh I'm a little nervous about white miliary dudes, sorry not sorry. he seems ok tho otherwise

here's an article on him from yesterday: http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/11/richard-ojeda-isnt-like-other-democrats-is-that-good.html

oh also that whole "voted for Trump" thing is going to haunt him forever not unlike Kerry's Iraq vote

oh jesus christ I didn't get to that part yet. fuck this guy then

what in tarnation

And with an eye toward the swamp, he proposed Monday to make the work of lobbyists more transparent by forcing them to wear body cameras.

A stupid line that makes me think he might be stupid.

Ojeda says he quickly turned on Trump. But choosing a Republican sex pest over the first woman with a real shot at the White House is unlikely to play well with Democratic primary voters.

"sex pest"? You're in America, fucker; write like it.

tbf I've seen "sex pest" used more commonly lately

I have to admit the lobbyist body camera line is funny

death to prescriptivism, "sex pest" has crossed the atlantic by now

it is a great coinage and deserves adoption

praising with faint damns

It was weird that Ojeda threw in Maxine Waters along with Pelosi and Schumer among those who he said the party need to get away from. The “pro-Coal” and “voted for Trump” things mean it’s actively bad to take him seriously.

i am all in favor in the rise of the use of "sex pest" over here, especially because half the time it's about Trump

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/paloma/the-trailer/2018/11/13/the-trailer-how-protesters-will-shape-the-democrats-next-election/5be997741b326b3929054744/?utm_term=.bc2e202c5f87

WP: What do you say to people who make up the majority of the party now, who say: Look, coal is killing us, and we need to stop taking carbon out of the ground?

RO: I'll say this, and I've said this to people in Silicon Valley, too. There's no reason we don't have IT jobs in West Virginia. We've got people graduating from college with IT degrees and they leave the state. You've got to build these relationships. I understand global warming exists. When I was a kid, the best thing you could get was a sled, because when it snowed in November, you wouldn't see the ground again until April showers. Now we get one snowfall in December for three inches and one in January for six inches and that's it. We need to turn that around.

...

WP: Let's imagine you're talking to a black voter in South Carolina or a Latino voter in Nevada, and they ask: How could you have voted for Trump, given what he was saying about my community? How would you answer that?

RO: It was about the community in which I live, which is full of miners and people who work in the coal industry. That was the only vote I could make that would allow the people in my area continue to feed their families. My state's the only one that's lost population for 10 years in a row. He was saying some things that I found to be disgusting.

WP: Would you run as a third-party candidate if this doesn't pan out?

RO: No. I'm a Democrat. I'm going to remain a Democrat until the day I die. The party has gotten away from true-blue Democratic values, but I believe we can get it back.

WP: Is there any circumstance, any way the Democratic nomination could wind up, where you'd vote for Trump again?

RO: No way. There's no way I'd ever make that mistake again. Mistake. You can capitalize that.

he’s a human being who I believe is capable of listening to people and learning from his mistakes, and those are pretty good answers all things considered. I’m sure the party will find much better candidates though

right

Those are good answers. He should run for governor of West Virginia instead. Their governor is a real piece of shit and is up for reelection in 2021.

The Trump thing: I think he's answered this well, and if you want a candidate that can reach people who voted or Trump in 2016, then someone who voted Trump in 2016 themselves isn't a bad bet! In 'normal' times this would be a stand-for-nothing pivoting centrist but these aren't normal times, and he's running on a good platform

The hardman act: idk, not sure i'd go as far as calling it that exactly, but he is a good speaker and that counts for a lot, he's strong in his answers.

The coal thing: Much more of a problem. he did answer well, but theres a contradiction there that can hurt him for sure

I don't know we're at a point where we can be anywhere near complacent that Trump loses in 2020, but Ojeda wins against Trump all day long surely. The problem is winning the democrat nomination in the first place, that looks a much bigger ask. Glad he's running though, regardless of whether he wins, his platform is good and the more candidates like this the better

You don’t need people who voted for Trump to win. In fact, you run the risk of alienating people who know how objectionable that was. 2016 wasn’t long enough ago. You can pretend his answers to that concern are good if it were like 20 years ago.

There’s also the fact that he lost the race he just ran in by a lot. Anyone who likes this guy should start a “Draft Manchin for 2020” petition.

Is good to have a candidate that ran on a more leftist platform do (comparatively) well in a very difficult state. Not all states are as tough as this one

Manchin is the polar opposite of a good candidate, and is in fact, a scumbag

We’re treating the line about how voting for Trunp was the only thing that would allow his community to feed their families too credulously. If he legiitimately believed that it’s insanely disqualifying as far as being informed on a fundamental level.

One thing I had been wondering is if someone like Warren would choose him as a running mate. I'm not exactly keen on Warren, but if she were to get the nom I could see her picking someone like Ojeda as he can do well precisely in the regions she will find tough

Not a Manchin fan at all but he won his race by a lot. The electability standards we’re using to justify our rose-covered glasses view of this guy (perhaps because we bought to the self-mythologized NYT profiles of Trump voters) means you gotta compartmentalize away the bad stuff about Manchin too.

I do think its an election too early in general, but its good to have non-corporate democrats and the window of opportunity is definitely there for candidates that not only run to the left, but run to the left in difficult states

Ojeda's platorm can work better outside of WV than in. Manchins cannot and is also bad

To clarify, I dont think Ojeda is good BECAUSE he voted trump and can reach those people. It is more that i dont think its a disqualifyer

I can’t fathom the level of compartmentalization involved for the same people who criticize “centrist dems” as “republican-lite” or whatever and bring up impure voting records from years ago then look at a guy who literally voted for the fascist two years ago and it’s like “Oh I hope it doesn’t hurt his chances”.

Its not "“Oh I hope it doesn’t hurt his chances”

Its "I dont think it hurts his chances”.

What i do think is far more likely to hurt his chancesis his pro-coal stance.

I dont mind centrist dems at all! I just prefer a non-centrist dem candidate

honestly I wouldnt trust this guy for shit. getting ed schulz vibes from him

and i dont bring up impure voting records from years ago, no interest in that either. my only interest is today

military bro from west virginia not exactly the most progressive on guns either, I'm shocked

https://wvah.com/news/local/miller-and-ojeda-where-they-stand-on-gun-control

Xpost Yeah sorry that wasn’t about you. I shouldn’t conflate support for him in general with the people I saw mentioning him in the last week.

Xpost Yeah sorry that wasn’t about you. I shouldn’t conflate support for him in general with the people I saw mentioning him in the last week.

― Nerdstrom Poindexter,

Thanks, thats ok! I mean, I'm generally pro-Ojeda, but its not like im working on his campaign, I've only really heard about him over the last couple of months, he may turn out to be terrible, and K3vin brings up a good point too. I mean I'm not even saying he would be my choice (i dont know who that might be yet!), but I'm glad he's running because the positives outweigh the negatives for me (at this point at least!), and it does feel like theres going to be a wide field!.

Whoever ends up getting the nomination is likely to be 'wrong' in some way, and thats ok, dont let perfect be the enemy of good and all that

I have zero idea at this point. I remember I didn’t think Obama had what it took to win until he started campaigning in the primary. There’s strengths and flaws that don’t emerge until you see a lot of these people start running for real.

Its my hope that by 2020 the Trump presidency is too beleaguered and has run out of steam, and we get Democrat candidates that focus on tangible positives instead of "not being Trump"

Whoever ends up getting the nomination is likely to be 'wrong' in some way, and thats ok, dont let perfect be the enemy of good and all that

― anvil, Friday, November 23, 2018 2:07 AM (thirty-four minutes ago)

let's get the best candidate out of the primaries and then worry about that

I agree, I mean i don't expect the candidate to be perfect, I'm flexible, I'm not a purist! they are all going to have something not so good and thats fine!

i know nothing about ojeda other than what's been posted in this thread and i would be unlikely to vote for him in the primary. based on the quotes from him here, though, i can immediately see why he's such an appealing candidate. he's the trump voter i wanted to see but by and large haven't - one who is willing to admit they made a terrible mistake. he appeals to the dream of bipartisanship, the delusion that america is still democratically governable. since it isn't, it doesn't matter whether he wins or not, doesn't, in fact, matter much who the democrats run in 2020 or whether or not they win, but regardless he's probably one to watch.

the idea that placating trump voters is the only way to win is untrue and dangerous but it underscores the “let’s talk to every person in this waffle house” mindset of big media outlets so it persists despite its wrongheadedness. democrats and republicans do not exist in equal proportion and the latter are dying off.

(btw there’s at least one waffle house in pennsylvania so spare me your “don’t be anti-south”’sanctimony)

btw https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/22/us/white-americans-minority-population.html

This isn't the reason I would vote for him (if i were to do so), I would vote for him because he runs to left on policy

I was saying I don't think the fact he voted for Trump in 2016 should (or necessarily will be) a disqualifyer, not that it was a 'good' in and of itself, or the only way (or even a way) to win. 2020 is there for the taking for 'justice democrats' and not an election for pivoting to centrism. Time to start looking past Trump and just being "not trump"

the idea that placating trump voters is the only way to win is untrue and dangerous but it underscores the “let’s talk to every person in this waffle house” mindset of big media outlets so it persists despite its wrongheadedness. democrats and republicans do not exist in equal proportion and the latter are dying off.

― maura

i guess that depends on what "winning" looks like. sure given enough time and dedication we can probably gain as much of a hold on government as republicans have now, and we could run that government about the way the republicans do, "fuck you if you didn't vote for me". we could, instead of actively working to disenfranchise republicans, complain loudly about "UGH why won't you DIE already".

and of course, no matter what we do, at some point republicans will violently revolt. all "politics" at this point is waiting for that to happen.

swinging further right isn’t the answer. doing so results in placating white men in a way that hurts everyone else - including further generations (seriously, coal???)

Yeah why does this thread have a boner for some coal-boosting Trump voter all of a sudden

I don’t think anyone on this thread would be happy to vote for him.

He isn’t going to win the nomination.

He’s one of 2 people who’ve declared their candidacy so we could talk about the other guy I suppose.

caek otm, no one would care except that he's a genuine oddball and there are v few official candidates

my highest hope for him is that he ends up decking martin o'malley or something

"What if Jim Webb but a social democrat?"

I think Marianne Williamson is absolutely the ticket

https://marianneforamerica.com

Prominent elected and public officials endorsed her campaign, including: Frmr. Governors Jennifer Granholm and Jesse Ventura; Frmr, Congressmembers Dennis Kucinich, and Alan Grayson; and Van Jones, among many others.[39] Alanis Morissette wrote and performed her campaign theme song, entitled Today

I hope she brings Alanis back to the team.

I can think of someone who might want to write her a new jingle

Yeah why does this thread have a boner for some coal-boosting Trump voter all of a sudden

― I have measured out my life in coffee shop loyalty cards (silby), Friday, 23 November 2018 15:37 (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

wow kinkshaming itt