Neanderthal otm
― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Monday, 14 January 2019 05:17 (five years ago) link
if treesh wants to become one of those people who posts on the "glitch in the matrix" reddit board and thinks they died in 2010 but it got rolled back or whatever well then i support it
― ciderpress, Monday, 14 January 2019 05:17 (five years ago) link
Need an "it doesn't matter" option
― resident hack (Simon H.), Monday, 14 January 2019 05:22 (five years ago) link
it's there
― ciderpress, Monday, 14 January 2019 05:25 (five years ago) link
I feel like "stfu" is for ppl mad about the question. I'm not mad, just feels inconsequential
― resident hack (Simon H.), Monday, 14 January 2019 05:28 (five years ago) link
inconsequential feels like the appropriate word. What would you do differently, if you decided that your perceptions of yourself and the universe were the result of "a simulation"? more to the point, what is this "simulation" simulating and how would that be any different than this "reality" being real?
― A is for (Aimless), Monday, 14 January 2019 05:39 (five years ago) link
I’ll argue about this a bit more tomorrow I guess. fwiw my position is not “we are living in a simulation”, but I think it’s as likely as any other expiation I’ve heard. People roll their eyes at it, but I guess I roll my eyes at anyone who thinks that anything else is more plausible
― Karl Malone, Monday, 14 January 2019 05:40 (five years ago) link
That last aimless post otm btw
― Karl Malone, Monday, 14 January 2019 05:41 (five years ago) link
Assuming the answer is “nothing”
― Karl Malone, Monday, 14 January 2019 05:42 (five years ago) link
I'm not sure that I would do anything differently, but I imagine that it would massively impact how I thought about myself and the things around me. If I'm in a simulation (something like a computer simulation, which I think is what we're talking about here) then it seems to follow that the simulation has been designed or programmed by someone, and so I can start to wonder about the nature of the designer, why they made this thing, why the features of it are the way they are, and why I'm part of it. And I can wonder about what the world outside of the simulation is like, which is another way to put the question "What is this 'simulation' simulating?" That doesn't seem inconsequential for me.
― jmm, Monday, 14 January 2019 06:01 (five years ago) link
"which dreamed it?" remains a salient question but despite the apparent novelty of its present form i don't think there's been any actual advance in its tech for quite some time
― difficult listening hour, Monday, 14 January 2019 06:11 (five years ago) link
I can start to wonder about the nature of the designer, why they made this thing, why the features of it are the way they are, and why I'm part of it.
brave new concerns for a brave new century
― difficult listening hour, Monday, 14 January 2019 06:12 (five years ago) link
Lisa Randall otm. We hate oursleves so much for fucking everything up, and we want to belive we're one failed branch in a much larger optimization. But this is reality that we are fucking up. And the probabilities people invoke for these arguments are usually one part of a long string of condotional probabilities.
― why date Ryan Adams in the first place? (Sufjan Grafton), Monday, 14 January 2019 06:18 (five years ago) link
Conditional
needs a 'no and stfu' option
― why date Ryan Adams in the first place? (Sufjan Grafton), Monday, 14 January 2019 06:19 (five years ago) link
it feels like a lazy way out of answering a fundamental question we don't know the answer to. Like panspermia: how does life originate, we don't know, oh look a comet, there's the answer, done.
― StanM, Monday, 14 January 2019 06:22 (five years ago) link
Sufjan otm, I suspect that's part of the appeal, consciously or not. It's no biggie, just a trial run, right?
― resident hack (Simon H.), Monday, 14 January 2019 06:23 (five years ago) link
i will get grimes to write a ballad of this dream
― difficult listening hour, Monday, 14 January 2019 06:23 (five years ago) link
I didn't say any of that was new. I'm not that interested in the Bostrom formulation myself. My point was just to resist the idea that this kind of question is inconsequential. I could also say that it's not inconsequential whether we're inside of a dream.
J.E.H. Smith has a good post on this topic: https://www.jehsmith.com/1/2016/06/we-are-not-living-in-a-video-game-simulation.html
The particular form the new version takes offers a vivid case study in the consequences of historical and anthropological ignorance. How self-congratulatory and parochial does a member of a given culture, at a given moment, have to be, to suppose that reality itself takes the form of a particular technology developed within that very culture in the course of one's own lifetime? Consider the familiar claim that 'the brain is like a computer', or, switching the comparative 'like' for the stoner one, that 'the brain is, like, a computer'. Is this not effectively to say that this thing that has been around in nature for hundreds of millions of years turns out to in fact have been, all along, this other thing that we ourselves came up with in the past few decades?
― jmm, Monday, 14 January 2019 06:35 (five years ago) link
oh i wasn't aiming my snot at you (or being sarcastic w "salient"). we agree i think. there have been thousands of years of work done on this question and metaphors have come and gone.
― difficult listening hour, Monday, 14 January 2019 06:49 (five years ago) link
(tho pointlessly imo, because what's ever gonna work better than a dream)
― difficult listening hour, Monday, 14 January 2019 06:53 (five years ago) link
you are living in a simulation
― (ADVANCE) (320k vbr) (--V2) (aps) (diVX) (2CD) OST - SB (2019) (esby), Monday, 14 January 2019 07:34 (five years ago) link
Your grandmothers were right, kids: video games have ruined everything.
― Three Word Username, Monday, 14 January 2019 09:02 (five years ago) link
bold take: we havent rly fucked everything up things are pretty good
― topical mlady (darraghmac), Monday, 14 January 2019 09:32 (five years ago) link
just cuz life is pretty good for you (and for me tbh) doesn't mean things aren't fucked up
― Effectively Big Jim with a beard. (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 14 January 2019 09:39 (five years ago) link
relative to what
― topical mlady (darraghmac), Monday, 14 January 2019 09:46 (five years ago) link
also my life is awful fu
This reminds me of the first time I heard "Sh-Boom", particularly the opening line "Life Could Be A Dream" - I was full of the pondering that we (or maybe it's YOU) could wake up and find that none of this exists. Particularly as the version of "Sh-Boom" was by Stan Freberg.
― Mark G, Monday, 14 January 2019 10:07 (five years ago) link
relative to how unfucked they could be obv
― Effectively Big Jim with a beard. (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 14 January 2019 10:45 (five years ago) link
yeah idk how valid that is a comparator
― topical mlady (darraghmac), Monday, 14 January 2019 11:10 (five years ago) link
And there are other reasons to think we might be virtual. For instance, the more we learn about the universe, the more it appears to be based on mathematical laws. Perhaps that is not a given, but a function of the nature of the universe we are living in. “If I were a character in a computer game, I would also discover eventually that the rules seemed completely rigid and mathematical,” said Max Tegmark, a cosmologist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT). “That just reflects the computer code in which it was written.”Furthermore, ideas from information theory keep showing up in physics. “In my research I found this very strange thing,” said James Gates, a theoretical physicist at the University of Maryland. “I was driven to error-correcting codes—they’re what make browsers work. So why were they in the equations I was studying about quarks and electrons and supersymmetry? This brought me to the stark realization that I could no longer say people like Max are crazy.”
This sounds like deism
― Trϵϵship, Monday, 14 January 2019 11:27 (five years ago) link
We might be living in a simulationBut I'm still living for that stimulationWHEEEEDLYDEEEDLYDEEEEEEEEEE (guitar solo sound)
― A Nugatory Excrescence (Old Lunch), Monday, 14 January 2019 11:28 (five years ago) link
ah look this idea isn't a new idea, the notion that this reality isn't the ultimate reality, sooner or later some of these kids will discover gnosticism or prakrti or gorgias or what the fuck ever.
reality is broken, we don't know and will never know why, take it seriously or don't but for god's sake at least try to be kind.
― Sigur Ros or Pomplamoose type shit (rushomancy), Monday, 14 January 2019 11:33 (five years ago) link
It does neatly explain some things people have always intuited—like the existence of a realm of pure being that is more “real” than this one.
― Trϵϵship, Monday, 14 January 2019 11:34 (five years ago) link
Or whar rushomancy just said. (Can’t see if someone has posted on safari mobile).
― Trϵϵship, Monday, 14 January 2019 11:36 (five years ago) link
To me, God being a computer programming AI is the worst of all possible worlds, almost. It must be cruel to program all this suffering in but then someone could say the same of God.
― Trϵϵship, Monday, 14 January 2019 11:44 (five years ago) link
suffering does predominate in all of the fictions we produce, there's no reason our own simulating overlords wouldn't also bring the pain
― Rhine Jive Click Bait (Hadrian VIII), Monday, 14 January 2019 11:58 (five years ago) link
So this is just westworld
― Trϵϵship, Monday, 14 January 2019 12:12 (five years ago) link
actually a very interesting and good q imo which occupies not-non-adjacent ethical space with "how would you live differently if you knew beyond the shadow of a doubt that a divine Being existed"
― she carries a torch. two torches, actually (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Monday, 14 January 2019 12:20 (five years ago) link
the world would certainly be a healthier and happier place. the trick is to see the divine in what we can already perceive. children need to be shown nature and volcanos and stuff
― imago, Monday, 14 January 2019 12:23 (five years ago) link
that's true joan. the idea of the simulation question is interesting to me basically for that reason--this is really about metaphysics not technology
― Trϵϵship, Monday, 14 January 2019 12:25 (five years ago) link
fuck washing a virtual toilet then
― rip van wanko, Monday, 14 January 2019 12:27 (five years ago) link
― she carries a torch. two torches, actually (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Monday, 14 January 2019 12:20 (twenty-seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
do i know what they want?
― topical mlady (darraghmac), Monday, 14 January 2019 12:48 (five years ago) link
Microsoft Fight or Flight Simulator
― A Nugatory Excrescence (Old Lunch), Monday, 14 January 2019 12:53 (five years ago) link
Roll the booooonesRoll the boooones
The night has a thousand saxophones?
― MarkoP, Monday, 14 January 2019 14:17 (five years ago) link
voted no
the real nature of the Universe is kooky enough as is without having to invent this stupid backstory
― zwei dunkel jungen (crüt), Monday, 14 January 2019 14:17 (five years ago) link
If we live in a simulation, it’s less “overlord pushing buttons and changing settings to see what happens in a controlled environment”, and more me repeatedly reloading a Civ game I saved way too late to untuck my bad decisions.
― gyac, Monday, 14 January 2019 14:22 (five years ago) link
unfuck ffs
children need to be shown nature and volcanos and stuff
https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2F2.media.collegehumor.cvcdn.com%2F4%2Ff%2Fcollegehumor.0f3f88c4f70804eb819af14fe2c15cfe.jpg&f=1
― Effectively Big Jim with a beard. (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 14 January 2019 14:57 (five years ago) link
I agree with Louis. There is too much in our culture that pushes against the experience of awe.
Ftr i do not agree with the simulation hypothesis, but I like that it is getting people to face the fact that we don’t really understand the nature of the universe.
― Trϵϵship, Monday, 14 January 2019 14:59 (five years ago) link
How many wolves are in the average pack? Probably more than seven.
― Wuhan!! Got You All in Check (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Friday, 10 April 2020 21:54 (four years ago) link
Also seven being lucky could just be the simulation creating some retcon justification
― Wuhan!! Got You All in Check (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Friday, 10 April 2020 21:56 (four years ago) link
Have you looked up the legend of "Seven and the Ragged Tiger?"
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 10 April 2020 21:58 (four years ago) link
7 days in a week 7 years in the jubilee
― Mordy, Friday, 10 April 2020 22:01 (four years ago) link
Average pack size is six wolves. A pack usually consists of an alpha male, alpha female, current offspring, and a few yearlings. There also may be a few adult subordinate wolves in the pack. Wolves will usually stay with the pack until 2-3 years of age.
― mh, Friday, 10 April 2020 22:02 (four years ago) link
New hypothesis argues the universe simulates itself into existenceA physics paper proposes neither you nor the world around you are real.A new hypothesis says the universe self-simulates itself in a "strange loop". A paper from the Quantum Gravity Research institute proposes there is an underlying panconsciousness. The work looks to unify insight from quantum mechanics with a non-materialistic perspective.
A physics paper proposes neither you nor the world around you are real.
A new hypothesis says the universe self-simulates itself in a "strange loop". A paper from the Quantum Gravity Research institute proposes there is an underlying panconsciousness. The work looks to unify insight from quantum mechanics with a non-materialistic perspective.
https://bigthink.com/surprising-science/new-hypothesis-argues-the-universe-simulates-itself-into-existence
― A Scampo Darkly (Le Bateau Ivre), Tuesday, 15 December 2020 14:56 (three years ago) link
spelled "stimulate" wrong
― Lover of Nixon (or LON for short) (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 15 December 2020 14:57 (three years ago) link
glad we worked this out
― the serious avant-garde universalist right now (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 15 December 2020 15:09 (three years ago) link
The scientists link their hypothesis to panpsychism, which sees everything as thought or consciousness. The authors think that their "panpsychic self-simulation model" can even explain the origin of an overarching panconsciousness at the foundational level of the simulations, which "self-actualizes itself in a strange loop via self-simulation." This panconsciousness also has free will and its various nested levels essentially have the ability to select what code to actualize, while making syntax choices. The goal of this consciousness? To generate meaning or information.
Let's see how much trendy bullshit we can cram into one paragraph.
― jmm, Tuesday, 15 December 2020 15:10 (three years ago) link
A new "hypothesis"! Nobel prizes all round! This is almost certainly next-level woo but I'm tempted to go down the rabbit hole if only for the lols.
We have not used the term “God” in place of panconsciousness in this document because that is an ambiguous and confusing term. It has many meanings. Two of the most general meanings associated with that word are ideas anathema to this thesis. The first is that God is infinite. This is not the case in the SSH model. Our panpsychic substrate evolves. The second is the popular idea in many religions that God creates everything. Our panpsychic self-simulation is everything and is collectively created by everything within it. It is unitary and interdependent, where the panconsciousness cannot exist without evolving through us and everything else that can make decisions.
― ledge, Tuesday, 15 December 2020 15:11 (three years ago) link
Is the universe a simulation or is human consciousness a simulation? Discuss.
― You will notice a small sink where your sofa once was. (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 15 December 2020 15:14 (three years ago) link
Looked up Klee Irwin and apparently quantum physicist is his second career.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OppvPEM0wEQ
― jmm, Tuesday, 15 December 2020 15:26 (three years ago) link
― jmm, Tuesday, December 15, 2020 4:10 PM (seventeen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
^^ this sounds like someone who's simulated would say tbf
― A Scampo Darkly (Le Bateau Ivre), Tuesday, 15 December 2020 15:29 (three years ago) link
i wish i was able to grow a pencil moustache, they say so much
― the serious avant-garde universalist right now (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 15 December 2020 15:40 (three years ago) link
It's easy to simulate
https://c8.alamy.com/comp/BH6JKA/teenage-girl-with-a-pencil-between-her-upper-lip-and-nose-BH6JKA.jpg
― You will notice a small sink where your sofa once was. (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 15 December 2020 15:50 (three years ago) link
'Strange Loops' are Hofstadter's thing, iirc.
― Bidh boladh a' mhairbh de 'n láimh fhalaimh (dowd), Tuesday, 15 December 2020 16:32 (three years ago) link
The goal of this consciousness? To generate meaning or information.
Least plausible element.
― Luna Schlosser, Tuesday, 15 December 2020 16:39 (three years ago) link
alamy stock is the new snorg girl
― the serious avant-garde universalist right now (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 15 December 2020 17:09 (three years ago) link
The concept of a simulation requires that some reality exists apart from the simulation for it to be similar to, otherwise there is nothing to simulate.
― Respectfully Yours, (Aimless), Tuesday, 15 December 2020 17:22 (three years ago) link
this is not really propopsing a "simulation" per se, they're just using that idea as a jumping off point
― early-Woolf semantic prosody (Hadrian VIII), Tuesday, 15 December 2020 17:41 (three years ago) link
If I can't even tell that I'm in a simulation, the fuck do I care if robots use me as AAs in their Walkman?
― You will notice a small sink where your sofa once was. (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 15 December 2020 17:51 (three years ago) link
why do physicists always think they’re uniquely equipped to solve reality once and for all
haven’t read the paper so the article may be selling it short but it makes it sound like a mashup of ideas (some I like more than others) that have been buzzing around for a while in whatever you call that weird interdisciplinary zone where they talk about emergence a lot. the simulation angle seems tacked on like a hashtag to get it trending
― Left, Tuesday, 15 December 2020 18:58 (three years ago) link
worth revisiting:
― Respectfully Yours, (Aimless), Tuesday, 15 December 2020 19:00 (three years ago) link
that weird interdisciplinary zone where they talk about emergence a lot.
Ding ding ding
https://quantumgravityresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/logo-ret-4-13-17.gif
― jmm, Tuesday, 15 December 2020 19:27 (three years ago) link
Dr. Franklin Pangborn, Physicist
― Yes Virginia, there really is a (Boring, Maryland), Tuesday, 15 December 2020 20:57 (three years ago) link
Was just about to say. 'Everything is a simulation' is virtually indistinguishable from 'everything is real'.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 15 December 2020 21:08 (three years ago) link
this is *not* a simulation theory
― early-Woolf semantic prosody (Hadrian VIII), Tuesday, 15 December 2020 21:10 (three years ago) link
it's the new generation of Oldsmobile
― Lover of Nixon (or LON for short) (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 15 December 2020 21:18 (three years ago) link
― Respectfully Yours, (Aimless), Tuesday, December 15, 2020 12:22 PM (four hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
i agree with this part “ The concept of a simulation requires that some reality exists apart from the simulation“ but not what follows. simulation does not mean “make something similar to” and a simulation doesn’t require a similar counterpart in reality
― flopson, Tuesday, 15 December 2020 21:31 (three years ago) link
i cut my finger while peeling carrots yesterday. if this is a simulation, it's quite a painful and gross one and i want a word with the mods.
― treeship., Tuesday, 15 December 2020 21:59 (three years ago) link
Wikipedia has settled on this definition: "A simulation is an approximate imitation of the operation of a process or system that represents its operation over time."
As I'd define a simulation, it is an extension in time of the concept of a simulacrum. While it is possible to create a simulacrum of something that does not exist directly in reality, such as a pink elephant, or a Death Star, I'd be surprised to discover any simulation whose components are not wholly modeled upon or derived from some aspect of reality, if you include mathematics as an aspect of reality. I won't rule out being surprised, though. It has happened often enough before.
― Respectfully Yours, (Aimless), Wednesday, 16 December 2020 00:24 (three years ago) link
there are multiple definitions of simulation, but that one is not the one that people have in mind when they say ‘we are living in a simulation’. all it means is “fake data generated in a computer.” no similarity to any existing part of reality is necessary. an artist or mathematician could simulate completely abstract systems with no representation in mind. for example it’s obvious that we could simulate the game The Sims with a crazy species of aliens from our imagination instead of humans. in analogy, our experiences might be simulated by some other super smart species who have better computers than us. they don’t even have to have imagined us too vividly, they just need a good model and then they feed it some initial conditions and let it rip. it happens that most existing simulations do have a real counterpart, but thats just historical circumstance. engineers simulate air planes flying because it’s cheaper and safer than testing real planes and crashing a bunch of them in the process
― flopson, Wednesday, 16 December 2020 01:25 (three years ago) link
I have no idea
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 16 December 2020 01:26 (three years ago) link
i agree it’s an unfortunate development in the etymology of the word though
― flopson, Wednesday, 16 December 2020 01:26 (three years ago) link
I thought the timing of the Good Place being right at a point when a number of things were obviously going in completely the wrong direction was oddly fitting.
Might just be an indication that life was following a similar pattern.
That was an interesting take on a simulation of a different set up.I thought the usual take was about brains in vats which normally tied in with a famous thought experiment we studied in Philosophy but I'm going blank on who the philosopher writing it was.Like would you know if things were real or if you were being fed false information passing itself off as a form of reality. So if everything was false and you still did stupid things like stubbing your toes and knocking fragile objects flying and forgetting things how would you tell? & if you were a Buddhist and everything is false anyway would you mind.
― Stevolende, Wednesday, 16 December 2020 02:25 (three years ago) link
i feel that if this were a simulation then that guy that plays maverick in those movies, you know about whom i'm talking, given that his unnamed and therefore unactionable affiliated religious organization's super-duper powers center is trying way hard to prove a point, that guy would have developed the ability to fly like neo and bend the artificial construct that we think of as time and space, and he'd already be telling us all about it. that ain't happened. also i believe keanu reeves of all of us would actually innately have this predisposition to superpowers if such actually existed, but keanu being keanu, he'd think it immodest to show off thusly and so we'll never know. keanu can probably fly irl, but he's just as happy taking a bus, because someone on that bus might need his help like in that one movie where he takes that bus.
idk where i'm going with this but it's more that likely about how we're blessed to live in the era of keanu than about simulation theory.
― slugbuggy, Saturday, 11 May 2024 11:41 (two weeks ago) link
cyberpunk2077 players are blessed and cursed to live in both
― Philip Nunez, Saturday, 11 May 2024 13:31 (two weeks ago) link
who the fuck runs the simulation then?
― Ste, Saturday, 11 May 2024 17:32 (two weeks ago) link
What is their purpose of existence?
It's run by turtles. Who learned to program. Their purpose is to move fast (fast for turtles, that is) and break things.
― more difficult than I look (Aimless), Saturday, 11 May 2024 17:50 (two weeks ago) link
why they making me work this shit job, fucking turtle shit heads
― Ste, Saturday, 11 May 2024 17:52 (two weeks ago) link
Did you miss the "break things" part?
― more difficult than I look (Aimless), Saturday, 11 May 2024 17:56 (two weeks ago) link
oh yeah, sorry
― Ste, Saturday, 11 May 2024 18:53 (two weeks ago) link
It's run by turtles. Who learned to program. Their purpose is to move fast (fast for turtles, that is) and break things.― more difficult than I look (Aimless)
― more difficult than I look (Aimless)
TO SQUAREREPEAT 4 [FORWARD 50 RIGHT 90]END
i feel that if this were a simulation then that guy that plays maverick in those movies, you know about whom i'm talking, given that his unnamed and therefore unactionable affiliated religious organization's super-duper powers center is trying way hard to prove a point, that guy would have developed the ability to fly like neo and bend the artificial construct that we think of as time and space, and he'd already be telling us all about it. that ain't happened. also i believe keanu reeves of all of us would actually innately have this predisposition to superpowers if such actually existed, but keanu being keanu, he'd think it immodest to show off thusly and so we'll never know. keanu can probably fly irl, but he's just as happy taking a bus, because someone on that bus might need his help like in that one movie where he takes that bus.idk where i'm going with this but it's more that likely about how we're blessed to live in the era of keanu than about simulation theory.― slugbuggy
― slugbuggy
i have good news slugbuggy there is a way to develop the ability to fly like neo
it's called estrogen
(if people are going to call me a social contagion i'm going to fucking _earn_ the title)
― Kate (rushomancy), Saturday, 11 May 2024 19:02 (two weeks ago) link