i think you're talking about a real split but not the one i'm talking about. when h00s says "battles over norms matter, but the fact that people engage in them oughtn't be misunderstood as organized political activity when there are plenty of people actually doing political work while a thousand nobodies flood the phone line of the catholic school's principal" he's talking about two groups of leftists, but one is doing actual political work and a thousand nobodies are flooding the phone line of the principal. if you criticize the latter you're not a centrist - maybe you just find the former more important. xp
― Mordy, Tuesday, January 22, 2019 4:08 PM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
and some are ... the same people doing both
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Wednesday, 23 January 2019 01:05 (five years ago) link
anyway weve been over this but my feeling is the culture war football isn't deflated by trying to pretend it doesn't exist or by playing whack-a-mole with i.e. racism just bc one racist kid goes viral, but that anti racism (again for example) clearly has to be an explicit part of any platform in which for example the figurehead of the republican party is an unapologetic racist
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Wednesday, 23 January 2019 01:10 (five years ago) link
Wondering if some percentage of the population, same that can't tell a fake smile from a real one, is also incapable of telling a smug smirk from a friendly smile, said percentage also being heavily concentrated among reactionary conservatives
― Bnad, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 01:47 (five years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CJZcVi5BA4
― j., Wednesday, 23 January 2019 01:51 (five years ago) link
If you want Medicare4All to include funding for women's health you will have to fight every last participant in the March for Life, and how the fuck are you going to do that unless you're willing to fight them?
I also want Medicare4All to be available for this kid
― anvil, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 03:03 (five years ago) link
pretty sure most all of us want the benefits of a more socialist society to benefit everybody, even the people we don't like
― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 23 January 2019 03:30 (five years ago) link
the MAGA wearing psychos yelling rape threats at women
Was there a source reporting this? I saw a video on Twitter where I can hear them yelling "MAGA" at a woman and she added that she could hear them yelling "build the wall".
― Locked in silent monologue, in silent scream (Sund4r), Wednesday, 23 January 2019 03:53 (five years ago) link
telling people they’re racist isn’t really anti racism though if they’re not willing to listen
― the late great, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 04:06 (five years ago) link
thats pretty much the history of racism in a nutshell though isnt it, people experiencing it describing something happening to them & everyone who isn't doing the racism basically saying they can't hear it
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Wednesday, 23 January 2019 04:09 (five years ago) link
*everyone else who isn't
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Wednesday, 23 January 2019 04:10 (five years ago) link
yes you don’t have to tell me
― the late great, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 04:13 (five years ago) link
anyway i think people will find in the long run that “anti racism” tactics that make racists look like victims will turn off more persuadables than you manage to sweep up while mobilizing the faithful
― the late great, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 04:16 (five years ago) link
“while” should say “by”
^
― Trϵϵship, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 04:21 (five years ago) link
So this "Vietnam Vet" served as an electrician in....Kansas and Nebraska?
― anvil, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 06:47 (five years ago) link
I guess in the CNN interview he does say "Vietnam times vet" and not Vietnam vet
― anvil, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 06:48 (five years ago) link
xxp dont get me wrong i don't think this was a great day for anti racism or something (or great... three days).
but also like ... this wasnt an event controlled by political strategists or something. it was a media clusterfuck and most ppl i see aren't concerned w/ properly prosecuting the teen for racism as they are annoyed by media framing & exploitation of his racism for ratings
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Wednesday, 23 January 2019 06:59 (five years ago) link
I'm reminded of the thread on smuggest album covers on ILM, where hardly any of the covers are smug.
― Wee boats wobble but they don't fall down (Tom D.), Wednesday, 23 January 2019 10:06 (five years ago) link
and give racists the platform they need. people are building entire careers in media and politics on the the outraged online reactions of their enemies. it would appear that is a p key component in how fascism works today.
― FernandoHierro, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 10:12 (five years ago) link
for that matter ... how much can we rely on 'persuadables' if they're perpetually vulnerable to racial appeals? it seems to me anti-racisms focus is abt compelling strategies that undermine the effectiveness of right wing racial appeals, which isn't the same as trying to step lightly around race, albeit also probably not abt falling totally for the bait during these flashpoint moments
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Wednesday, 23 January 2019 10:38 (five years ago) link
idk, i would say i'm pretty ... pessimistic abt how one goes about doing that at this point. but anything less than that feels like a trap
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Wednesday, 23 January 2019 10:39 (five years ago) link
People who have the energy for moral outrage can be directed to use that energy for something practical too--they can be/get organized. How can more of that happen?
― There's more Italy than necessary. (in orbit)
i don't know how that happens without people who are already committed putting in a lot of work. people have to be taught the skills involved, often mentored.
-
i would like to again express my displeasure with any strategy that involves conscious avoidance of _provoking_ racist demagogues. this seems to me like an implicitly or explicitly victim-blaming strategy.
― The Elvis of Nationalism and Amoral Patriotism (rushomancy), Wednesday, 23 January 2019 14:44 (five years ago) link
did someone use the word 'provoking'
― FernandoHierro, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 14:51 (five years ago) link
is that how de-platforming works fernando?
because last i checked not only was this kid not deplatformed, he ended up on the today show
― the late great, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 15:43 (five years ago) link
― The Elvis of Nationalism and Amoral Patriotism (rushomancy), Wednesday, January 23, 2019 2:44 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
just to bolster this point, demos just did a fresh study that i presented on yesterday indicating that frames that alienate the firm opposition track with increased support from our base (as distinct from ourselves, advocates) & the mixed-views persuadables.
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 16:38 (five years ago) link
what
― topical mlady (darraghmac), Wednesday, 23 January 2019 17:38 (five years ago) link
lol
― Wee boats wobble but they don't fall down (Tom D.), Wednesday, 23 January 2019 17:48 (five years ago) link
messages that alienate our opponents are not a bad thing but a good thing xp
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 18:01 (five years ago) link
i think what's good is that sort of wide-ranging policy-based message, vs the singling-out of people or small groups of people who do something that offends the left's sensibilities. i think the former leads to the base galvanizing and becoming stronger, and the latter leads to people rushing to someone's defense and a bullshit redemption arc that winds up being more of a validation.
― omar little, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 18:07 (five years ago) link
xp you know i wasnt zinging you i just literally could not parse that f
― topical mlady (darraghmac), Wednesday, 23 January 2019 18:13 (five years ago) link
haha yeah i read it again and i couldn't parse it either
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 18:13 (five years ago) link
i would agree but the relationship is not causal or direct, i.e. the things that most outrage "our" "enemies" are not necessarily best at galvanizing "our" "base"
― the late great, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 18:19 (five years ago) link
Different things with different messengers appeal to different people.
I was just thinking that a big grievance towards most politicians, parties, people with any sort of power, your friends and neighbors, is that they have distinctly been avoiding even acknowledging racism/sexism for our entire lives. This is why I often hear that white people will never, ever truly be an ally, forget them, look after your own.
― Yerac, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 18:23 (five years ago) link
the things that most outrage "our" "enemies" are not necessarily best at galvanizing "our" "base"
― the late great, Wednesday, January 23, 2019 6:19 PM (twenty-one minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i agree, but what i'm getting at by highlighting the point is that i don't think we should let alienating the opposition stop us from using messaging that galvanizes the left base -- and, separately, it seems to me that making them howl marginalizes them further from the general public.
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 18:46 (five years ago) link
I recommend ash sarkar's interview with hbomberguy on novara abt his recent marathon donkey kong 64 twitch fundraiser and one of the things he talks abt is how part of what helped such a large group of ppl suggest was having graham linehan as a hate figure. i think ppl often underestimate how effective a negative focus like that can be in helping a group rally
― ogmor, Wednesday, 23 January 2019 23:49 (five years ago) link
hbomberguy on novara abt his recent marathon donkey kong 64 twitch fundraiser a
damn i must be old -- is this english?
― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Wednesday, 23 January 2019 23:55 (five years ago) link
it's ok to have bad people angry at you
― The Elvis of Nationalism and Amoral Patriotism (rushomancy), Thursday, 24 January 2019 00:57 (five years ago) link
― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy)
does this mean i'm young for understanding it? (i'm not young)
― The Elvis of Nationalism and Amoral Patriotism (rushomancy), Thursday, 24 January 2019 00:58 (five years ago) link
i think you should take it! :)
― affects breves telnet (Gummy Gummy), Thursday, 24 January 2019 01:03 (five years ago) link
c'mon Gummy I'm 52 and have never used Twitch and am not a gamer and even I know what all that means
― sleeve, Thursday, 24 January 2019 01:04 (five years ago) link
donkey kong 64 is 20 years old
― ogmor, Thursday, 24 January 2019 08:58 (five years ago) link
donkey kong 84
― The Elvis of Nationalism and Amoral Patriotism (rushomancy), Thursday, 24 January 2019 14:44 (five years ago) link
Imagine a prehensile foot stamping on Mario's face...forever
― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Thursday, 24 January 2019 15:06 (five years ago) link
Native American activist Nathan Phillips has a criminal record https://t.co/EOUOoeu1Mb pic.twitter.com/2Efl6qWjMY— New York Post (@nypost) January 24, 2019
holy shit that chud PR firm is good
― frogbs, Thursday, 24 January 2019 15:51 (five years ago) link
Have we discussed anywhere this guy taking a guilty plea to a terrorism charge? Hope this clears the way for more accurate labeling of white supremacist terrorists as they are charged in our justice system.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/23/nyregion/timothy-caughman-white-supremacist-guilty.html
― peace, man, Thursday, 24 January 2019 16:00 (five years ago) link
this week's ep on Covington
https://www.npr.org/podcasts/452538775/on-the-media
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 26 January 2019 07:29 (five years ago) link
i sense a great disturbance in the force
https://preview.redd.it/e4ganyea02d21.jpg?width=720&auto=webp&s=b44cb54f37db50f0f6fe43a52f7356122bf3d763
― maxwell’s silver hang suite (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 28 January 2019 11:32 (five years ago) link
Sounds like the plot to Michel Houellebecq's Submission.
― pomenitul, Monday, 28 January 2019 11:44 (five years ago) link
The fuck is he talking about 11 year olds dancing? I missed this particular piece of propaganda.
― peace, man, Monday, 28 January 2019 11:51 (five years ago) link
A supposedly autistic 11 year old boy in drag danced at a gay bar in NYC, patrons threw money at him, deplorables are losing their minds on Twitter, Infowars, the Daily Wire, Breitbart, LifeSite, etc.
― pomenitul, Monday, 28 January 2019 11:58 (five years ago) link