Public Shaming C/D?

Though is it really public shaming if you go on CNN to do an interview? And where is CNN's credibility (lol) in not doing any kind of fact checking at all on Phillips.

"The chaperones are responsible for the behavior of the kids on the trip

FUCK no"

and why not? maybe not if these kids were like, 7 or 8. if you've ever gone on a field trip with a bunch of elementary school kids, yeah, you can't control them, the best you can do is make sure they don't get hit by a car. but these kids were in High School. They were clearly deemed old enough and mature enough to attend a Right To Life protest. Watching the full video makes it perfectly clear they behaved in a manner that was not acceptable; war whoops, dancing around, clearly mocking. There were adults present. The adults did not stop it. So yes, they are responsible for the behavior the kids on the trip, at least in part.

Fuck those kids. Imagine wasting .5 seconds worrying about them possibly facing consequences for .5 seconds (which of course they’re wiggling out of anyway bc the president is also a bigot)

one of the wildest things abt white supremacy is how white people's feelings abt racism are always the terrain being contested and always presented as The Stakes.https://t.co/CdmC0pNaA8

— Swole Porter. (@GeeDee215) January 22, 2019

Furthermore, the interesting thing to me abt the teens’ ironic affect is that it’s exactly what gives ppl like Mordy the space to imply identifying their racism is “thought police” type behavior bc it creates enough doubt ... I see their smarminess as having more to do w class than anything ... ironic racism gets a societal, structural, systemic benefit of the doubt (see all the old Momus posts), an opening for ppl to say they’re just being normal teenagers bc they too identify w the teenage impulse to be condescending towards “difference” (I still remember my high school class torturing the physics sub with the Russian accent). But this isn’t abt who is nice and who is mean; it’s abt drawing a line around racism & misogyny& anti semitism as having significantly more dangerous consequences, of being ideologically harmful w very real, physical consequences. IE prison camps for immigrant children. This is per usual “ironic” racism somehow getting a pass bc it’s not “real racism” aka poor people racism, the unfashionable sincere kind which we “all” instantly recognize... these kids learned if they do it like this they’ll get a pass from their parents and the president

16 year old "kids" have their future prospects negatively affected every day

this is one of the few instances to celebrate

does anyone want this 16 year old to have great prospects

I hold the controp that much of the divisions created in hot topics of progressive discourse (TERFism, East Asian appropriation of African-American culture, prison abolition, police abolition, sex work abolition, “should we write a think piece trying to understand the neo-Nazis or deprive them of all attention”-ism), that the vitriol and incandescent rage with which we approach these arguments is a literal product of cointelpro that seeks to keep conservatives in power while anybody with any empathy is caught up in meaningless discourse about whether or not it is ethical to send death threats to a white teen in a MAGA hat

There is some evidence for that, actually, fgti. I wouldn’t discount it.

https://thehill.com/policy/technology/426338-twitter-suspends-account-that-helped-incident-involving-catholic-school

The twitter account that first shared this “viral” video was found to be suspicious by twitter and suspended. Apparently it tweeted like 5 times per hour and the profile pucture didn’t match the purported owner of the account.

xpost I don't know that I'd go quite that far but would definitely assert that paroxysms of righteous indignation are often more about buttressing the ego than the affectation of anything constructive, and those on the opposite side of that ideological divide certainly aren't complaining about the extent to which that is so.

Tbh, i felt the entire affair made the media and “resistance”-minded social media users—i won’t say “the left,” which refers to a different kind of group that overlaps—look like absolute clowns.

Like, if you get really mad at a bunch of teens yelling things irl. And if you try to go to the newspaper with the story of the teens being dicks. That would be stupid.

FGTI - there are plenty of examples of that being a real thing, absolutely lots of (at best) bad-faith actors joining in with any online scandal, however I would say the mechanics of how especially Twitter works is if anything a larger factor here. I see plenty of intelligent left-wing people getting caught up in ultimately minor arguments because the important big picture stuff is too complicated and messy and/or everyone in their bubble has already agreed about it and there's not much else to say.

I hold the controp that much of the divisions created in hot topics of progressive discourse (TERFism, East Asian appropriation of African-American culture, prison abolition, police abolition, sex work abolition, “should we write a think piece trying to understand the neo-Nazis or deprive them of all attention”-ism), that the vitriol and incandescent rage with which we approach these arguments is a literal product of cointelpro that seeks to keep conservatives in power while anybody with any empathy is caught up in meaningless discourse about whether or not it is ethical to send death threats to a white teen in a MAGA hat

― flamboyant goon tie included

for me the literal source of the incandescent rage is not relevant, though if someone becomes more skeptical of incandescent rage as a tactic if they believe it's the result of cointelpro or whoever as opposed to, you know, random white men, i don't object to that. it's more that uncontrolled rage and effective political action are not typically congruent, and any work we do to dismantle rage culture is valuable work.

How dare u, cue performative outrage

mechanics of twitter otm

dan are you new to ilx? maybe take a breather. ppl are discussing this in good faith and you're having a fucking meltdown bc they dare not to see things your way. we're not devils advocates or nazi sympathizers or sea lions or gaslighters if we don't sign onto your take. we're just ppl with different perspectives.

― Mordy, Tuesday, January 22, 2019 11:03 AM (yesterday)

lol he's been here literally like, decades, he's fine, you're all fine, except that sb guy

you people, sometimes

theres an sb guy now

a real piece of work

It's a recurrent benbbag issue we can't seem to clear up

(sorry for tmi)

fgti otm i think

https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/10/30/sort-by-controversial/

On that note, this subreddit devoted to clowning on the bloviating nerds of the rational-sphere is very enjoyable https://www.reddit.com/r/SneerClub/

I thought the recent "civility above all" zeitgeist around here seemed pretty un-ILX-like; now I now where it's coming from

know

we've lost our edge maybe u can help us find it

looks like Greenwald had a point after all, eh

they should publicly execute the racist teen on good morning america imo

^ this unironically

i see we all did a lot of reading on MLK Day

(what a shitpile of idiocy)

There's probably an argument to be made that 'civility above all' (like nonviolence) only carries weight within a framework where it has some tangible efficacy. Like even if it's a noble and morally upright endeavor it may have negligible real-world impact at a point.

(Which is by no means an argument against its employment, just an argument against getting one's hopes up.)

in fact why even have civilization at all when humans do uncivilized things what benefits has it actually brought us

Civility is only good for long haul flights.

Like even if it's a noble and morally upright endeavor it may have negligible real-world impact at a point

ignoble and uncivil actions can have negligible real-world impacts too

For sure.

irl at work, with family, at the bar, wherever ppl are generally civil bc that makes life more comfortable. online where no one has a face ppl are less civil. anti-civility ppl online are presumably not going around acting like jackasses and getting into nasty fights calling ppl names at the office or wherever. and the ones who are don't get invited out much anymore. but that's ok bc it leaves them more time for twitter.

ignoble and uncivil actions can have negligible real-world impacts too

you mean like Dan I calling for the televised execution of teenagers?

did he start a change.org petition tho

I mean, my long-term personal goal is increasing my kindness quotient. But if pressed I don't know that I could make a strong argument that that's a particularly effectual way to approach the world. But my inability to construct that argument doesn't really impede my intentions (most of the time, anyway) (or at least some of the time).

um that was me give credit pls xp

xp it'll matter to the ppl who experience the kindness, idk about effectiveness but considering most of what we do help no one (and hurt ppl even) working on being more kind will at least have an unambiguous positive impact on others

Yeah, that's pretty much my take. If I can reduce the number of assholes a person encounters in a day by one, I've done my job.

Who’s talking about kindness—I’m talking about the dictatorship of politesse

oh poor baby have u been repressed i'm so sorry :(

Tell it to the Basilisk, man!

Dan, I'm the one who brought kindness into the equation. That was me. Mea culpa.

for me the literal source of the incandescent rage is not relevant, though if someone becomes more skeptical of incandescent rage as a tactic if they believe it's the result of cointelpro or whoever as opposed to, you know, random white men, i don't object to that. it's more that uncontrolled rage and effective political action are not typically congruent, and any work we do to dismantle rage culture is valuable work.

― The Elvis of Nationalism and Amoral Patriotism (rushomancy), Wednesday, January 23, 2019 9:17 AM (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

When confronted by public displays of racism i too wonder how we can address the real issue: people being angry

Rage is a tactic like any other, in that sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn’t; sometimes it’s purely cathartic, and sometimes it has efficacy. Effective political action and rage can be very congruent !