Public Shaming C/D?

the kids had been bussed from their drives-gay-kids-to-suicide, can't-wear-blackface-anymore school in another state to shout abuse at women. who gives a fuck if your friends on a website dedicated to overthrowing democracy may have ERRONEOUSLY thought that the one who wasn't making "scalpy scalpy" motions might have been racist just because he was wearing a racist hat sold by a racist grifter

The important thing is to keep shining, if we’re talking jewelry.

With eight tweets in and like 30 more to go.

I admit I tapped out when it said "load 45 more tweets" after the first 30 or 60 or w/e

I read it in article format

I did it wrong and read the article and not the tweets.

Twitter is the true paper of record

Well more like read halfway then put on Hall and Oates

I'm apparently an uninformed moron, because I've never heard of Megan McArdle, but she appears to be brain damaged.

catching up on her now so I can fully appreciate why I should have loaded the rest of that thread

McArdle correctly acknowledges that Grenfell might not have claimed as many lives if regulators had required sprinkler systems in the tower, but then proceeds to brainstorm bizarre hypotheticals in which installing sprinklers might have actually killed more people. “Every dollar [the government] spends on installing sprinkler systems cannot be spent on the health service, or national defense, or pollution control. Would more lives be saved by those measures or by sprinkler systems in public housing? It’s hard to say,” she writes. It’s worth noting that this abomination of an opinion piece was published before many Grenfell victims were pulled from the smoldering rubble that was, literally, their entire lives. “It’s possible that by allowing large residential buildings to operate without sprinkler systems, the British government has prevented untold thousands of people from being driven into homelessness by higher housing costs.”

this is a position i often see articulated by people who have never been victims and have little to lose by provoking racist demagogues

― the late great

that's not a political strategy, that's a survival mechanism. people do what they need to survive and don't need my approval or disapproval, and therefore i have neither to offer.

i lost track of this thread because i had other things to do, people were trying to defend rage as a viable political strategy? and then started talking about civility? are the two related because i don't think they are

love you, but I won't do what you tell me

ok right this thread is officially all talking and no listening, i'm going to switch over to slaughterchrist's "reflections of things to come", it's on youtube if anybody elese is interested

two of my favorite things

love you, but I won't do what you tell me

― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal)

actually this is great, somebody needs to rewrite all of ratm from angry white-boy posturing into songs of loving but principled resistance, or possibly pizza, because songs about pizza are always funny

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayd-a44Nca4

really like that WGW post upthread

WGW may refer to:

Wagawaga language (New Guinea) – former ISO 639 code WGW; later split into codes YLB (Yaleba) and WGB (Wagawaga)
Whitby Goth Weekend, a goth music festival in North Yorkshire, England
Wigan Wallgate railway station, Greater Manchester, England (station code WGW)
WorldGenWeb, genealogy project

lol, I meant Whiney G. Weingarten

everyone dogging into the thread is right about why the ppl itt are wrong but wrong about it being a bad thread it is in fact a good thread

WGW may refer to:

Wagawaga language (New Guinea) – former ISO 639 code WGW; later split into codes YLB (Yaleba) and WGB (Wagawaga)
Whitby Goth Weekend, a goth music festival in North Yorkshire, England
Wigan Wallgate railway station, Greater Manchester, England (station code WGW)
WorldGenWeb, genealogy project

― Trϵϵship

"what god wants", the first single from roger waters' acclaimed 1992 album "amused to death"

That’s what i thought at first, but roger water(face) hasn’t posted in some time

that's not a political strategy, that's a survival mechanism

fair enough i guess

i think TLG's point is pretty legit as a counterbalance to overconfident white progressives that there are unintended consequences to unexamined radical ideological positioning fwiw ... that said i do think the blowback to ppl wishing death on some teens while bad for leftist optics or whatever is still kind of a red herring / distraction from the way the system actually *worked* in this instance, which was to move to protect the positions of the kids when they were forced to face some consequence

the thing about 'wishing death on teens' is, anybody who is outed in social media for doing anything, heinous or imagined-heinous, is typically subjected to death threats. Which doesn't make it not fucked up, but it means the average friend of yours that was roaring over this story wasn't sending Sandmann messages like "Peek a boo, you are doomed".

I haven't seen anybody in my social sphere wanting to John the Baptist the little fuckers

OTM:

I admit I jumped the gun when I said those MAGA kids should have their lives ruined. Now that more info about the students and their school has come to light, I believe their families should also have their lives ruined, and Covington Catholic should be bulldozed to the ground.

— Bryan🌹 (@superlancerboy) January 22, 2019

So this is kind of hilarious. This thread reminded me to call out a friend of a friend (who was manpearlclutching at length about the maga kids being vicitms) about him posting bullshit about David H0gg like a month after the shooting. His response. "Hogg is an opportunist who sought and made personal gain from a tragedy."

Rationalization, it's not just a river in Egypt.

i lost track of this thread because i had other things to do, people were trying to defend rage as a viable political strategy? and then started talking about civility? are the two related because i don't think they are

IMO you are 100% wrong about almost everything you've posted about in these threads over the last few days, and I utterly reject your entire value system.

sorry, I'm just tired of the second-guessing of tactics. I support all the tools in the toolbox, all the time.

is sleeve really 52 and how do i get to shadow ilx

xp yeah sleeve I agree with that

the last statement about supporting all measures

Interesting the bullshit account (@2020fight) that edited/popularized the MAGA kid video hasn't been mentioned. Sounds like the story would have trended even if it had to rely on bot accounts following that account. Everyone ate it up, so... moot?

lol hoos

also I conflated this thread with the alt right thread w/r/t discussion of tactics, I apologize for that vehemence there rusho - death threats are not cool, "public shaming" seems to be very complex in the social media age and I shld read that book

Relevant: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/jan/23/conspiracy-theories-internet-survivors-truth

NBC looked into the twitter account, and found that it was probably not 'bullshit': https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/twitter-account-amplified-covington-catholic-d-c-march-video-appears-n961981 Again, the overcorrection has been absolutely insane.

this is a little off topic, but I think this is a great example of the internet's fascination with breaking down every tiny detail of everything - explainer videos, 10 things in star wars that you never noticed and will BLOW YOUR MIND, YouTube dildos and their "response" videos - really poisons the dialogue and our reaction to things

the initial reaction people had was totally correct, the kid's a smug racist little piece of shit, but then the internet has this compulsion to make simple things complex, let's see what happened 10 minutes before 10 minutes after for "context" oh wait they aren't bad the black Israelites are, oh wait they are bad they harassed a girl earlier in the day, oh wait they aren't bad the guy with the drum walked up to them first.... just insane, like people aren't that complex most of em are super simple and 9x out of 10 it's really easy to understand exactly who they are

And as is so commonly the case, the more intently the minutia is pored over, the more easily the big picture and any sense of context is lost.

ie how many of the people engaged in public shaming of teenage choads are willing to expend the same energy in seeking out and combatting the structural problems that turn teens into choads?

Today, my anti-Trump, very liberal history teacher friend, a normally level headed guy who has for whatever reason, lost his mind defending the Covington kids, just shared a Daily Caller article attacking Phillips. Seemingly unaware of the publication's history, founder, and reputation. 2019 is trippy

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2019/01/23/nathan-phillips-man-standoff-with-covington-teens-faces-scrutiny-his-military-past/?utm_term=.851630fab66b

A group representing Nathan Phillips wrongly said he served in Vietnam. Then came the accusations.
There’s no evidence that he’s ever claimed to have served in Vietnam, a representative said
By Dan Lamothe January 23 at 3:11 PM
Nathan Phillips, the U.S. veteran whose standoff with high school students on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial captured viral attention online, has often discussed his military past.

The Native American activist, seen beating a drum Friday as teens from Covington Catholic High School in Kentucky surrounded and mocked him, has referred to himself as a “Vietnam-times” veteran. He described in interviews getting spit on and called a baby killer by a “hippie girl” and told the Detroit Free Press on Saturday that “I’m a Marine Corps veteran, and I know what that mob mentality can be like.”

The sight of him surrounded by a group of teens wearing red baseball hats emblazoned with President Trump’s “Make America great again” campaign slogan and the shifting narratives about the incident afterward have prompted political outcry from conservatives and liberals alike.

Nathan Phillips, center, with other Dakota Access Pipeline protesters in February 2017 near Cannon Ball, N.D. (Mike McCleary/Bismarck Tribune/AP) (Mike Mccleary/AP)
The incident also has led to scrutiny of Phillips’s service record after an organization representing him, the Lakota People’s Law Project, described him as a Vietnam veteran in a news release and numerous media reports identified him as one afterward. Several, including The Washington Post, have since issued corrections.

In reality, Phillips served from June 1972 to May 1976 in the Marine Corps Reserve, a service spokeswoman, Yvonne Carlock, said Wednesday. He did not deploy, and he left the service as a private after disciplinary issues. From October 1972 to February 1973, he was classified as an antitank missileman, a kind of infantryman, Carlock said. He then became a refrigerator technician for the majority of his service.

Daniel Paul Nelson, a leader in the Lakota People’s Law Project, said in an interview that his group made the error and that Phillips never told the group he served in Vietnam. The group, Nelson said, “trusted what we had seen” in previous stories about Phillips, some of which also referred to him erroneously as a Vietnam veteran.

“We were trying to do the advocacy work that we do,” Nelson said.

Phillips, who turns 64 next month, is not old enough to have deployed to Vietnam as a Marine infantryman, prompting accusations that he was lying about his service.

The military will typically provide basic details about a person’s military service within a day, but the situation with Phillips was complicated because he enlisted under another name associated with a family that raised him, Nelson said. He provided Phillips’s full Social Security number to The Post with Phillips’s permission to help clear up the confusion.

On Tuesday night, Donald Shipley, a Navy SEAL veteran who investigates military service records, published a video in which he showed excerpts of Phillips’s service record.

“This is all going into that Native American guy that everybody keeps labeling as a Vietnam vet, and he is not,” Shipley said in the video. “A lot of these news outlets are using that claim of ‘Vietnam vet’ to kind of beef that story up and make it look even worse.”

Shipley, who did not respond to an interview request Wednesday, noted that Phillips enlisted under another name and spent the majority of his time in the military as a refrigerator technician. He questioned how that squares with an April report by Vogue magazine in which Phillips is quoted saying that he was a “recon ranger,” a position that does not exist in the military.

“I have a relative here who said he’d lead the way and scout ahead for us,” Phillips said in the article, which describes a protest at the Standing Rock Sioux reservation in North Dakota. “You know, I’m from Vietnam times. I’m what they call a recon ranger. That was my role. So I thank you for taking that point position for me.”

Nelson said that Phillips’s comments at Standing Rock were taken out of context and that Phillips actually was referring to the work they were doing at the time on the reservation.

In other interviews, Phillips has consistently described being a veteran of “Vietnam times.”

In 2000, he told The Post that he was a patriot who had served as “a Marine Corps infantryman” in the 1970s. He did not claim to have served in Vietnam and did not mention leaving the infantry after a few months to become a refrigerator technician.

In 2015, he described himself in a video interview with MLive as “a Vietnam veteran times” and stated that he served from 1972 to 1976.

Nelson said he did not know Phillips before the uproar but has “incrementally learned about this man’s integrity, and I have not been disappointed.”

With all the scrutiny of Phillips’s military record, he has now been victimized twice, Nelson said.

“It’s definitely a distraction,” he said. “It’s a diversion, in fact. I’d like to make the point that these papers being released demonstrate the most important fact, which is that he was in the military. He did not lie about that, and there are a lot of people who have been in a very irresponsible and vicious manner targeting him without being able to prove that.”

is your liberal history teacher friend a white guy?

Both sides, man. Both sides.

Man randomly stabbed in park may have bounced a check in the '80s. Was he as innocent a bystander as we'd been led to believe?!??!?

Yerac yup

There was a thing recently about why there is that rush to overly defend with all the sexual assault cases that have multiple victims and Kavanaugh, etc. It's easier to identify and feel that that could've been you, you've made that mistake in the past etc etc.

And I recently saw someone in the black community who explicitly did not care about this incident, change his mind. Because if he expects a level of equality and respect of his feelings and viewpoints who is he to say the indigenous community should feel differently or minimize their experience.

also I conflated this thread with the alt right thread w/r/t discussion of tactics, I apologize for that vehemence there rusho - death threats are not cool, "public shaming" seems to be very complex in the social media age and I shld read that book

― sleeve

no worries, i think we're basically in agreement (especially re: using all the tools in the toolbox), when i speak out against rage as a political strategy i'm mostly speaking of my ongoing efforts to reject my white male rage, i don't feel like i have the knowledge or experience to comment on other forms of rage. the thread just started moving so fast that it wasn't really possible, for me at least, to consider what i or other people were saying. another of the many reasons i avoid twitter - also the scale issue ums alludes to, you get 50 million people in a room together and nobody is going to get anything useful out of that.

We allocate more time to writing over each other than we do to reading, that's for sure.

post yeah^^^ and when I talk about rage and anger I am thinking of when I tell other women they should be angrier. Their lack of anger and complacency, such good and civilized behaviour, with how things are directly affects other women who aren't fine. There is the stereotypical picture of the angry feminist "consumed by rage" that circulates, in hope I guess, that women won't want to be seen as not attractive to men, number one priority. I haven't read Rebecca Traister's "Good and Mad" yet. I probably should.