Brits - Who are you voting for in the European Elections?

A lot of it is more inadequacy than envy, and perceptions of worthlessness, just like school.

part of the problem is that the people engaged in doing the redistributing (and in deciding on how much you're 'worth' as a member of the deserving poor) are resented, maybe as much or more as the rich.

once 'bare minimum' is met, then maybe political capital is more effectively spent making sure everyone has the opportunity to be one of those super rich c*nts than actually trying to decrease the gap.

This is about as Thatcherite as you can get by the way.

i actually deleted the words and this bare minimum doesn't have to be based on thatcherite notions from the post, as it seemed a little 'methinks the poster protesteth overmuch'.

clearly not.

'envy issues' I don't like as a concept, partly because I don't care much about people's feelings, but more importantly because it trivialises the issue. There really are big downsides to inequality, because of the human tendency to band together - you get property surges, gated developments, placements-as-routes-into-employment, etc once part of society gets comparatively rich enough to make it all worthwhile, hence sink estates and declining social mobility

Yes. And as the planet's resources are squeezed it will be harder to justify the necessity of the super-rich. Probably harder to be super-rich. The Greens at the moment I see as well-meaning idiots but future leftist thinking is going to have to take into account sustainable economics and Labour as a party of simple redistribution or (hurray!) amelioration isn't really gonna cut it there either.

as the planets resources are squeezed, it will be harder to justify democracy to the super rich.

maybe political capital is more effectively spent making sure everyone has the opportunity to be one of those super rich c*nts than actually trying to decrease the gap

Umm. No, I couldn't disagree more. Not only does that ignore the basic statistical realities that are at least addressed by the moving-average approach (start with the concept that 50% always have to be below the mean and think it through from there), it also ignores the sociological ones: ie rapacious greed that might benefit a few lucky bastards might not be the best way forward (which in turn takes me back to the concept of unfairness as bad for a society's psychological wellbeing).

Everyone can be a rich cunt if only they're vicious and amoral enough: yeh, that was Thatcherism, wasn't it?

(Ismael Klata and Noodle Vague OTM in all manner of ways while I was writing that, btw.)

as the planets resources are squeezed, it will be harder to justify democracy to the super rich.

It'd be interesting to see how that played out. My reading of Roman history is that it usually sucked to be the Emperor.

Depends if you were taking a long- or short-term view, I guess :)

my point was more that removing perceived/real unfair barriers to success among the working classes or disadvantaged would be much more useful than just attempting to remove the super rich as a group, which i think may not be clear.

name me a politician that takes a long term view, or is even afforded the luxury of doing so.

xpost

OK, I'll settle for a pincer movement that deals with both extremities.

YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT RAISING TAXES YOU BASTARD

politics is hard :(

1. Raise taxes
2. Shoot everyone who moans, in the face, repeatedly
3. ???
4. A better society for everyone!

(Note to policy wonks: this needs a bit of work. Can we put a positive spin on number 2?)

positive spin on 1, 2 is only a small step from the met's current modus operandi, 3 can be left on the long finger until after the election, but 4 isn't going to sit well with the media. needs work.

I've suddenly realised that the reason I can't take Nigel Farage at all seriously is because he looks like one of those South Park dudes with the heads that flip right open.

GF this book basically backs up what you're saying. I'm a little surprised it research hasn't been coopted by Labour as it's pretty darn convincing.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21KM%2BOMW42L._SL500_AA180_.jpg

More on their findings here http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/

metaphor here somewhere

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/8089498.stm

Alison Pratt, from the National Farmers' Union, gave the following advice to others should they find themselves in a similar position.

"The best thing to do is to let the dog off the lead so it can run away because obviously a dog can run faster than you," she said.

now, i might be missing something here, but can anyone think of why this mightn't have been a great option?

xxpost to myself

Actually thinking about it I'm not too surprised that it hasn't gained greater traction in the mainstream yet, as it's obviously something which wouldn't fit with the rights worldview and is very damning about the total failure in this regard by the Labour government.

'uness you are blind, in which case, um,...' (xpost)

GF this book basically backs up what you're saying

Yes: superb. Couldn't remember where I'd seen this stuff but I'm pretty sure it was pegged to that book (and indeed website: I'll check some of that out later on). Awesome: thanks, Billy.

Equality Trust might wanna not consider not using Radiohead quotes as headlines on their front page. Or maybe throw a "Snakes on a Plane!" in there or something.

I haven't followed either of these particularly closely so may have got this wrong, but is there not an overlap with IDS's stuff on the broken society?

http://twitter.com/realnickgriffin

^^^See Woody Allen above.

Andrew Brons: the genteel face of neo-fascism

Jesus, this fucker eh?

Whew.

I ponder this both as a psychology student and a bemused citizen: could such lifelong dedication to such a discredited, antisocial and basically stupid cause be symptomatic of some form of personality disorder?

My guess: yes.

If it wears a suit and rosette, how could it possibly be delusional?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8089142.stm

^ its funny how all the BNP voters in that article are deluding themselves that that they are not racist.

One if the people from that link who voted BNP. He even has his pic on the page http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8089142.stm

BBC News website readers have been telling us why they decided to vote for the party.
MARK DAY, TEIGNMOUTH

I've never voted in the past, but I wanted to vote now.

I decided to vote for the BNP because I like what they are saying. They have an opinion and I want them to be heard.

Mark Day
I don't like the way the country has been run to date. I have seen British culture being eroded in the past few years, and British people being made to feel like second class citizens in their own country.

I must stress that I am not racist, but I do believe that when in Rome, do as the Romans do. I have no problem with skilled immigrants who come here and add to our economy and more importantly fit in with our way of life.

I do have a problem with so called 'no go zones' for whites. Some of my family are from Luton, and they will all tell you of the racial tension there. It simply doesn't work when you have mass uncontrolled immigration with no regard for the views of the native British people.

The BNP want to deport all criminal and illegal immigrants. What on earth is wrong with that? Do we want other countries' criminals here?

The BNP's view on foreign affairs is also good. It means no more illegal and immoral wars. No more invading other countries for 'peace keeping' missions. We will trade with other countries when it benefits us. Isn't that what trade is supposed to be about?

I'm totally sick to death of our country being run by out of touch politicians

The BNP will raise speed limits on the motorway! Hooray! Why on earth is the limit 70 miles-per-hour? Cars of today are far more advanced than cars of 30-40 years ago. Yet the speed limit hasn't changed.

The BNP will also stop persecuting motorists. This will be a welcome move, as I'm sick to death of the government using speed cameras, roadside traps and parking tickets as a source of revenue. If the BNP were in power the police would actually be fighting crime rather than hassling innocent people.

People think the BNP is racist. Is it racist to want to look after your country? I certainly don't think so. And I'm totally sick to death of our country being run by out of touch politicians who have everyone else but the native British peoples interests at heart.

I despair.

is Teignmouth not in Devon?

I mean you can at least see where the racism comes from with people from Yorkshire who actually have asians and blacks in their vicinity but in Devon? Really?

also voting fascist for their policy on vehicular transport is a bit of a weird one.

lol the BNP is libertarian as WELL as bigoted! good times, great memories

The BNP will raise speed limits on the motorway! Hooray! Why on earth is the limit 70 miles-per-hour? Cars of today are far more advanced than cars of 30-40 years ago. Yet the speed limit hasn't changed.

here's hoping darwin's law kicks in for this wanker without taking out any innocent motorists along the way.

so basically we can blame the 'rise' of the nbp upon endless reruns of top gear on dave?

I'm not too familiar with bnp policies, but is this true ?

"I don't agree with everything the BNP say. I think people should be free to marry who they chose regardless of race. "

People who work and contribute to our country and society (irrespective of colour or religion) are welcome

Voter not quite understanding BNP policy there.

so basically we can blame the 'rise' of the nbp upon endless reruns of top gear on dave?

No, but I dount Clarkson et al's constant LOL POLITICIANS has helped.

Dount Clarkson - hmm, wonder what I was thinking...

Speaking as a Briton, I say it's time we sent these people back to Lower Saxony and Jutland, where they belong

I'm not too familiar with bnp policies, but is this true ?

"I don't agree with everything the BNP say. I think people should be free to marry who they chose regardless of race. "

Not really, they do put conditions on marrying foreign nationals, such as you (the British National) have to live in your proposed spouses country for two years (reporting to the British Embassy every month) before you can come back to live here.

You can read their white paper (geddit!) here. It's a crock of unthought through shit unsurprisingly.

Tom are you a true Briton or one of those Celts who need sending back to Central Europe where you belong?