Avengers: Infinity War

I’m totally cool with Spiderman focusing on Spiderman Universe is what I meant to say. I know parallel universes colliding could bring back any MCU character but all the action in the preview is Spidey characters doing their thing.

We just had the parallel Universe Spiderman event though didn't we?
Great cartoon from last year.

would have enjoyed seeing that Captain America quest to return the gemstones though. I take it it's not going to be shown now. Did think it was what the next CA film might be for all of a couple of minutes there.

I wouldn't be surprised if it gets done as an animation or something

Let's face it, production wise it probably boils down to a choice between 30 minutes of live action footage vs 30 minutes of character animation, with the rest of the film the same.

One of the interviews with Endgame team revealed that Captain America had to get back to Endgame Universe in order to sit there on the bench. I found that more fascinating then him just staying in one place getting old. He had to cross universes and perhaps even time travel.

Perhaps!

Yeah, if he travelled back to the 1940s to be with Peggy, he automatically created a new timeline where Peggy wasn't left to mourn him. There's no way he was there all along in the original timeline, as Agent Carter and other media have shown what happened to Peggy after the events of the first Cap movie. So maybe after alternate Peggy died of old age, he wanted to come back and spend the rest of his days in his original timeline? Or maybe he just wanted to visit there to let the Avengers know he was successful in returning the Infinity Stones, since presumably he now has family and friends in the alternate timeline, so he'd still want to go back there?

(xpost)

I haven't finished the second series, but it presumably only shows what happened to her up to a point?

I haven't finished the second series, but it presumably only shows what happened to her up to a point?

The second season is set in 1947. We don't know when the last scene of Endgame takes place, but presumably Steve would want to return to Peggy as soon as possible after his "death", instead of letting her mourn for a long time, get over it, find a new love, etc? Which is exactly what happened in Agent Carter.

Anyway, according to the time travel logic laid out earlier in the movie, the mere fact that Steve returns to the 1940s and starts a new life there automatically creates a new timeline. There's no way to create a "you already changed the past" type of loop in the MCU, just like it isn't possible in the comic book universe either.

Correct. The way I've tried to explain it (and which the movie itself did an adequate job imo) is that, when they travel to the past, time changes from a capital I to a capital Y, with one of the forks being the timeline they came from and the other being the new timeline they've created through their temporal meddling. Tony's GPS effectively pulls them back to the bifurcated point in the timeline and then back up the 'correct' timeline such that it's as if they never left (the only subjective passage of time for each traveler being however long he/she spends in various other timelines before returning to their starting position).

i think the easiest explanation for cap's adventure--he went back and re-delivered all infinity stones except for the time stone, lived a full life with peggy, then whenever he was ready to go back to his original reality, he went to the sanctum and delivered the time stone to the ancient one, who portaled him back to the moment he left.

Or maybe he was a Skrull

He didn't need the time stone because he was utilizing the quantum realm.

Also everyone is a Skrull now.

People I've talked to keep focusing on how Captain America couldn't go back without creating an alternate timeline when Thanos from 2014 (or whenever) is right there in the giant battle and gets turned to ash

Seems like a loophole that's a little bit larger

that's why i think the time lords probably would have to get involved

Imma draw y'all a diagram of how this shit works when I get a little free time and an appropriately large whiteboard.

that whiteboard in full

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_JMFM__XdmG8/TFdWxa5WSHI/AAAAAAAAAmw/FpwueSoNOsg/s400/glennbeckblackboard.jpg

The
Heroes
Are
Now
Ugly
Skrulls

DO U SEE

^^^ This made me laugh a lot harder than I expected it to

Basically the ending would have worked better had Captain America simply never come back and left the others hanging. Then they could flash back to the same scene of him dancing with his girl, and might have been more bittersweet and affecting than old Captain America.

That would have been incredibly dumb because there wouldn't have been any closure for the characters re: Captain America's story and the universe's narrative would not be able to move beyond him without making the remaining Avengers seem even more callous/dismissive than they've already been in the movie (see everyone letting Black Widow wallow aside from the folks on her conference calls).

I, personally, do not want three more movies of "whatever happened to Captain America?" when I could have "Sam Wilson is now Captain America; how is the world reacting to that?" instead.

mh, all that happens there is that there's another timeline where Thanos disappears in 2014, and so Endgame doesn't happen in that one.

Cap only creates a new timeline if he changes the past - there's no evidence that he does, and some evidence that he doesn't (IE his appearance at the end of this film)

1) Sam could still be Captain America.

2) Who cares about closure? Anyway, the fact that people, including us, are discussing and debating whether what Captain America did was even possible, or what it means for the multiverse and so on, shows that there has been no closure on that front.

"who cares about closure," he says about the movie "endgame"

xp I am sort of wondering if you know what that word means, Josh.

Thanos got closed.

And endgamed.

Sam would not be Captain America without Steve's blessing. His respect for/deference to Cap is a core part of the character, both in the movies and in the comic books; he would never see himself worthy of the position without outside influence from the man holding it. It's even there in that final scene where he hesitates and checks with Bucky before going to talk to old Steve; in Sam's mind, Bucky is Steve's best friend and should have first dibs but Bucky knows Sam has been Steve's partner in crime for years at this point, plus Bucky already said goodbye to Steve by calling back to their exchange decades ago when Steve sets off to return the stones.

Also yes, you don't know what "closure" actually means in the context of a narrative.

I'll go one step forward, I don't know what closure means at all. I am just that ignorant.

Sam would not be Captain America without Steve's blessing. His respect for/deference to Cap is a core part of the character, both in the movies and in the comic books; he would never see himself worthy of the position without outside influence from the man holding it. It's even there in that final scene where he hesitates and checks with Bucky before going to talk to old Steve; in Sam's mind, Bucky is Steve's best friend and should have first dibs but Bucky knows Sam has been Steve's partner in crime for years at this point, plus Bucky already said goodbye to Steve by calling back to their exchange decades ago when Steve sets off to return the stones.

OTM. I enjoyed that scene.

My only quibble is whether Bucky would prefer to live in the past is never clarified. My preference is more White Wolf character development!

Well, prepare for clarification from the upcoming Disney+ series (now almost certain to be entitled Captain America & the Winter Soldier or somesuch).

Their choice of characters to make shows about, btw, makes much more sense now that we've seen Endgame.

(now almost certain to be entitled /Captain America & the Winter Soldier/ or somesuch).

I mean I guess he could still be Falcon for the show but that seems like a demotion at this point.

I mean it feels a little like the loose plan atm is to relegate what's left of the Avengers-qua-Avengers to a handful of short streaming series while the films shift focus toward the outliers and weirdoes, but I'm sure they'll mostly be back on the big screen at some point down the road.

I mean

Avengers Endgame 2 - a film for the nerds where all they do is sit in a room and describe how the time travel worked

very disappointed michael pena was not looped into the time heist.

agreed - they could have used more normal human sidekick business

as much as it pains me to turn down an opportunity for more peña, the last thing this movie needed was more characters

Separately (good discussion above there, thanks DJP) -- anyone seen this in IMAX yet? As it was filmed in it, we figured we'd catch a second showing this weekend at the local theater in SF.

I did. Enjoyed it, obv.

metreon in SF apparently has the only true IMAX screen within a nuclear fallout blast radius.

I watched it with my nose practically pressed to the screen (second row, recommended), q: does that count

watched it surrounded by approximately 30 small babies and their parents - absolutely the best way to watch any movie, a+ would recommend 100%

Rather see it surrounded by a bunch of crying babies than a load of marvel fans says you

Pena’s character recapping to Scott Lang what had happened while he’d been trapped in the quantum realm would’ve been great.