Predict the electoral vote of the US Presidential Election

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The state Democratic party has said that they're concentrating a bit more on canvassing and getting favorable voters out to vote on November 2 than relying on yard signs

this is the thinking here in missouri too. in st. louis we can't keep signs in HQ because demand is so high.

teeny (teeny), Friday, 15 October 2004 18:14 (nineteen years ago) link

Whoever came up with those Bush/Cheney "Farm Team" signs in the green-and-yellow John Deere colors is a genuis. I hate that guy.

Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Friday, 15 October 2004 18:20 (nineteen years ago) link

The whole fact of yard signs, while sort of unavoidable, strikes me as creepy and coercive and undemocratic. In effect, not intention. There's something about it that always looks like the warm-up to a civil war.

nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 15 October 2004 18:21 (nineteen years ago) link

http://www.jimholt.us/images/Holt%20Embossed.gif

The good news is that this guy doesn't have a shot in hell of winning.

Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Friday, 15 October 2004 18:33 (nineteen years ago) link

I've never in my life been so terrified by a fish!

nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 15 October 2004 18:38 (nineteen years ago) link

Although to be fair I have to admit: if that was some secret stylized Ganesh snuck in there or something, I'd totally vote for whoever that was.

nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 15 October 2004 18:38 (nineteen years ago) link

the latest numbers in OR show that they have at least 50K registered around Portland.

Sir Kingfish Beavis D'Azzmonch (Kingfish), Friday, 15 October 2004 18:39 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm pessimistic. I've always thought Bush will win, I haven't seen much to change my opinion.
-- Jonathan Z. (zin...), October 15th, 2004 8:27 AM.


I have to say that I've had this feeling more or less since they found Saddam. I'm not sure how this whole Mary Cheney thing will end up playing out. Something tells me the feigned outrage from the right will end up playing really really badly to the middleroad "undecided," though that "something" could just be my disgust for their disgust. Plus two-and-a-half weeks equals roughly 43,295 more pre-election "events" getting media attention.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Friday, 15 October 2004 18:45 (nineteen years ago) link

i just got my Oregon ballot in the mail today. Dig this: Nader ain't on it.

Sir Kingfish Beavis D'Azzmonch (Kingfish), Friday, 15 October 2004 19:53 (nineteen years ago) link

yeah, he's too late.

teeny (teeny), Friday, 15 October 2004 19:56 (nineteen years ago) link

I doubt anyone but politcs/media-hounds are paying attention to the Mary Cheney flap, and it's not going to sway anyone's vote one way or another. It'll be gone by next week.

morris pavilion (samjeff), Friday, 15 October 2004 20:45 (nineteen years ago) link

I don't think Oregon or Virginia will leave the Kerry or Bush camps, respectively, but it appears that there are under-the-radar campaigns for each. I wonder how many other clear or hazy swing states such things are happening in.

I should note that "under-the-radar campaigns" mean different things depending on the party - for Democrats, it's voter registration; for Republicans, it's voter suppression.

gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 15 October 2004 23:18 (nineteen years ago) link

AP's take on the battlegrounds:

The real tossups are OH, FL, WI, IA, PA, NV, NH and NM

The states Bush can get only if he moves the national needle are MN, MI, ME and maybe NJ

The states Kerry can get only if he moves the national needle are CO, WV and AZ

This is basically how I see things, except I think that, in the absence of a national needle move, the last four tossups above are already or will very soon be in the second category, locked down as Bush or Kerry states .

gabbneb (gabbneb), Saturday, 16 October 2004 22:09 (nineteen years ago) link

So I spent the day in Wisconsin. It was pretty interesting - nothing to be intimidated by. I'd recommend carpooling to a swing state if you've got a Saturday or two you can spare. I'm feeling pretty run-down right now, might be getting the flu, but if my energy returns, I'd do it again.

k3rry (dymaxia), Saturday, 16 October 2004 22:31 (nineteen years ago) link

Oh, and there were -plenty- of Kerry / Edwards signs in Wisconsin.

k3rry (dymaxia), Saturday, 16 October 2004 22:34 (nineteen years ago) link

i think bush will win by a small margin, though my opinion is colored by the fact that i live in south carolina and see almost nothing but those ubiquitous bush "W" bumper stickers everywhere i go.

i hope to god the bastard loses.

latebloomer (latebloomer), Saturday, 16 October 2004 23:06 (nineteen years ago) link

bush will win convincingly, no more debates, no more attempts by pundits to make kerry coherent or presidential. newsweek has him up 6. kerry is getting desperate, now running ads for free college tuition. ads claiming a million jobs outsourced inaccurate, no mention of all the people who work for foreign subsidiaries. ads on mistakes are pretty good, reporters kept asking so they could make television ad, rove smart enough to not give them material. colorado is solidly bush, coors will also win. intiative won't pass because republicans don't support it, it's a poor plan because candidates are guaranteed representation even if they don't campaign there. but, frustratingly, the lame public transport bill will pass and probably the renewable energy initiative as well, don't these people have any understanding of redundancy? that's why wind power is so expensive, argh. no more trains, more lanes of freeway, carry 90% more passengers and cost around 1/3rd as much as trains. at least the stupid monorail question is not on the ballot, make skiers pay for disneyworld rides. it's a wonder that republicans win all the time when democrats offer goodies for everyone.

keith m (keithmcl), Sunday, 17 October 2004 02:57 (nineteen years ago) link

You mean the Republicans aren't? I thought Bush was proud to say the government was providing jobs and coverage for you all, you dear little man.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 17 October 2004 02:59 (nineteen years ago) link

(I mean, sorry Keith, but at least Don is honest and straightforward about calling BushCo troughfeeders, you seem to ignore that salient fact.)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 17 October 2004 03:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Swing State Project is going to be a good resource over the next few days

newsweek has him up 6.

...among likely voters, a result they immediately disavowed, given that it showed Bush leading with women and Kerry leading with men. Bush is up by 1 among registered voters in their poll.

kerry is getting desperate,

;-)

reporters kept asking so they could make television ad

LOL

coors will also win

http://www.inventionfactory.com/history/RHAbridg/bb.jpg

and to think i'd missed keith's giardiasic political analysis. it's been so accurate in the past.

gabbneb (gabbneb), Sunday, 17 October 2004 03:12 (nineteen years ago) link

Actually, about this getting desperate business, I spoke briefly with Teeny online today -- you'll recall she is working for the campaign at this point -- and she indicated the mood at her place was quiet confidence mixed with a growing excitement. Take that as you will. Also interesting was that over on NRO's blog, mixed in with the to-my-mind useless to-and-froing over the polls, were these spasms of not-exactly-happiness:

Andy McCarthy on why the Mary Cheney thing is the GOP 'overplaying the hand'

Jonathan Adler on how Bush's claim to never having made mistakes is being used against him ad-wise

And my personal favorite, an endorsement that Mark Krikorian baldly says is 'not one the White House is likely to trumpet.' It begins "Why I'm voting for this clown" and proceeds to argue bluntly why the author is content to vote GOP while not hiding his contempt for Bush at all, calling him "a spoiled rich kid who wasted his youth partying with his frat-boy buddies and then woke up one morning and decided to become president. I pointed out that his domestic policy has been disastrous and his foreign policy idiotic."

A lovely paragraph:

The question that matters is not who occupies the one job at the top of the executive branch. It's who occupies the thousands of other jobs. If re- elected, Bush is much more likely to name judges who respect the Constitution and believe in limited government -- though he himself certainly doesn't. He is likely to spend less on social programs than Kerry -- though not much less.

You can fight your corner, Keith, without kowtowing to the feeb who is making a lot of your assumptions look ridiculous. You have a shit candidate you're only backing for the reasons this guy says, except at least this guy says it.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 17 October 2004 03:36 (nineteen years ago) link

Heh, the KERRY campaign, I meant to say about Teeny.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 17 October 2004 03:41 (nineteen years ago) link

Oh yeah, and unless I missed it, Jonah Goldberg still has said jack about Robert George's contemptuous rejection of Bush, after promising to provide comments. Personally I still think it's because he can't offer a constructive one at all. Can you, Keith?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 17 October 2004 03:43 (nineteen years ago) link

Man, this thing is just coming closer and closer to the wire. Kerry's crawling towards 270, two inches forward, one inch back. I can't take this for another 2 weeks. (And that's if we even get a final result within less than 24 hrs from the polls closing...)

Girolamo Savonarola, Sunday, 17 October 2004 04:26 (nineteen years ago) link

make skiers pay for disneyworld rides.

double-you tee eff question mark

Sir Kingfish Beavis D'Azzmonch (Kingfish), Sunday, 17 October 2004 05:20 (nineteen years ago) link

You might enjoy this one too, Ned

gabbneb (gabbneb), Sunday, 17 October 2004 13:32 (nineteen years ago) link

"...I have deep family roots in the Republican Party. My father, Thruston Morton, served as a Republican U. S. senator from Kentucky and also served as national chairman of the Republican Party."

and was the singer-guitarist for the band Sonic Youthton

latebloomer (latebloomer), Sunday, 17 October 2004 15:24 (nineteen years ago) link

Nader's gonna win. I can feel it.

The TAO that can be Posted is not the TAO! (The Tao that can be Posted is), Monday, 18 October 2004 00:32 (nineteen years ago) link

Most entertaining, gabbneb.

At this point the only voters going for Bush who I will respect are those like the fellow who wrote the 'clown' piece that essentially say "he's useless and obviously so but Kerry I think would do worse." Anyone heaping praise on Bush is quite frankly blowing smoke up their own ass.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 18 October 2004 00:38 (nineteen years ago) link

Zogby Interactive in the WSJ is more encouraging for Bush supporters this time around, but only in a vague way. Compared to their Oct 6 battleground poll, OH and FL seem to have drifted back to Bush but Kerry's lead in MI, MN, WA, NM and OR now seems close to unassailable with PA looking comfy too (Zogby never considered MD or NJ up for grabs in the first place and Rasmussen seems now - finally - to concur). All the Bush leads are within the margin of error and the only state currently changing hands is NH (Kerry up by 5.1). So that's Bush by 274-264 but all those Red leads are flimsy.

Rasmussen's nationwide tracker has been calling it a tie or a 1-2pt Bush lead for about a week now; the numbers in the battlegrounds are better for Kerry than they have been for weeks and they're even giving him a slight lead in WI after reporting it Bushwards for ages. FL has drifted back to 'toss-up' status. They've still got that alarming K49-44B poll up for NY from mid-Sept - I presume this has widened in line with the rest of the east coast.

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 15:25 (nineteen years ago) link

I've never trusted those Zogby Interactive numbers much, but I trust them even less after a lot of Freepers signed up as respondents in between this survey and the previous one.

gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 15:31 (nineteen years ago) link

So, who should we be trusting for our daily poll fix, Gab?

Hilariously confusing stats of the day: Washington Post gives Bush a 54% approval rating (+ incumbent factor = home and dry) while NYT/CBS pegs that figure at 44% (he's dead in the water). Oh, and the Washington Post gives Kerry a 4pt lead in the marginals.

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 15:36 (nineteen years ago) link

Do polls really mean anything in a race this close? This is a serious question.

n/a (Nick A.), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 15:45 (nineteen years ago) link

I don't trust any of them, necessarily. Zogby and Ras (and perhaps the new tracking polls from major media and TIPP) seem the most reliable because they change the least frequently and show the smallest margins. Zogby (and CBS/NYT) probably tilts a bit to the left more than other polls, and Ras (and most of the other big-media polls) probably tilts a bit more to the right, but I think all the polls probably tilt a bit further to the right than the electorate, given the cellphone/new-voter/college-student phenomenons, perhaps more than Zogby tilts to the left.

gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 15:53 (nineteen years ago) link

slate's election scorecards this week have given me hope

Yanc3y (ystrickler), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 15:54 (nineteen years ago) link

At the state level, the most reliable are usually the local polls like the Ohio Poll. I look at ARG, Research 2000 and Rasmussen at the state level, trusting the (Republican) latter less than the others. I don't buy automated SurveyUSA polls, and think Mason-Dixon leans way too far right.

The polls I like least - Gallup and the newsmagazines.

gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 15:57 (nineteen years ago) link

yeah, the commentary on those scorecards seems to indicate which polls to trust

gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 15:57 (nineteen years ago) link

I don't know the background to these organisations, of course, but the fact that Rasmussen has had "Cheney posts narrow win in VP debate" near the top of its News sections for ages (no mention of the presidential debates at all) kinda gave it away.

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 16:04 (nineteen years ago) link

From another messageboard:

Electoral Vote Winner:
Popular Vote Winner:
House Control:
Senate Control:
Who wins Florida?
Suprise Republican victory:
Suprise Democratic victory:
Scandal State:
Media Blunder State:
Biggest Nader Factor State:
Libertarian Factor State:
Likelihood of capturing Osama?:
Likelihood of US Attacked Factor?:

Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 16:11 (nineteen years ago) link

Electoral Vote Winner: Kerry, over 300
Popular Vote Winner: Kerry, over 50%
House Control: Republicans
Senate Control: Tie or Democratic, pending LA runoff and potential Chafee switch
Who wins Florida? Kerry, if the votes are counted
Suprise Republican victory: Minnesota, New Mexico
Suprise Democratic victory: West Virginia, Virginia
Scandal State: don't get it
Media Blunder State: don't get it
Biggest Nader Factor State: Maine, Oregon
Libertarian Factor State: Colorado, Nevada
Likelihood of capturing Osama?: very slim
Likelihood of US Attacked Factor?: how would I know?

gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 16:53 (nineteen years ago) link

Possible argument: the fact that no-one has ever polled me on owt means that I should not believe polls till they do.

Ditto, ratings.

the bluefox, Wednesday, 20 October 2004 16:58 (nineteen years ago) link

Scandal State: meaning vote-counting scandal? where won't there be one?

Media Blunder State: meaning initially called wrong on Election night? Wisconsin

gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 17:00 (nineteen years ago) link

yeah, what ned said above about me is correct--we're very excited about missouri's chances. I'll caveat that with a note that I am not specifically working in the Kerry campaign but on behalf of Kerry and other democrats--I'm employed by the dem machine in the city of st louis, and st louis is its own special beast. But I do think that St Louis will be the reason that MO will be a surprise Kerry state. We've got a great ground plan, tens of thousands of new voters, and 85%-95% (depending on the neighborhood) democratic votes. But of course it's also my job to be optimistic.

teeny (teeny), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 18:26 (nineteen years ago) link

THank you teeny

gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 18:40 (nineteen years ago) link

Teeny, St. Louis isn't going to get in trouble again like last time when they kept the polling places open late, are they?

Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 18:41 (nineteen years ago) link

we shall see! mr teeny will be one of the lawyers at the polls watching for funny business, there will be dozens around the city and more around the state.

teeny (teeny), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 19:10 (nineteen years ago) link

Yeah! Stick it to the 417!

Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 19:13 (nineteen years ago) link

haha oh yeah he also says he will tell the folks waiting in line which one of the cars belongs to the republicans holding up the process (word on the street says they plan to challenge every third ballot in democratic wards).

teeny (teeny), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 19:13 (nineteen years ago) link

hahahah oh next month will be such fun

Sir Kingfish Beavis D'Azzmonch (Kingfish), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 19:17 (nineteen years ago) link

two more for Ned - here and here

gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 20 October 2004 19:41 (nineteen years ago) link


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