I dare you to anticipate Joaquin Phoenix in Todd Phillips's JOKER (now with something that may or may not be a SPOILER)

and the CROWN prince of CRIME heehehehehehheehheeahahahahahahhHAHAHA!

I really think everything about this movie is enraging horseshit.

We do not need to humanize the goddamned fucking Joker.

It's just a clown.

Like literally give me a movie of Jared Leto's Joker from Suicide Squad stomping on puppies for 2.5 hours over this nonsense

At what point do the majority shareholders of WB begin questioning the wisdom of their portfolio, is a question I occasionally find myself asking

This joaker is one twisted mf and that's no 'joke'

We do not need to humanize the goddamned fucking Joker.

this is what was so good about the "Did I ever tell you how I got my scars?" bit in the Ledger movie: the first time you hear it, you're drawn in -- you want to humanize the Joker, he's there to help you do that. and then when he tells a different story the next time, you as the viewer are supposed to go "oh lol @ me, this guy is obviously a sadistic asshole, do not try to get the 'two sides to every story' bit on him"

It's just... The Joker isn't a sad character. He is not a character that should be pitied or identified with. He is not a downtrodden soul bent and misshapen by a cruel, uncaring world into a vengeful monster. He's a vengeful monster because he wants to be one. He destroys things because he can. He hurts and kills because it's fun. He is screaming, unchecked id driven by cunning and malevolence, which is why Ledger's version worked so well. Turning him into a sad little man with so many problems and setbacks and issues that he couldn't help but turn into a monster in response is not only a fundamental misunderstanding of the character; it lets him off the hook by inviting you to rationalize why he became what he is and allows you to think that it's possible to redeem him.

I don't care how Comic Book Guy I'm coming across as here because every review talking about how this movie is likely to be an incel rallying cry resonates strongly with every vibe I've picked up off this movie from the trailers and, given where the entirety of western civilization has been going over the past 5 years, I do have some actual, legitimate concerns about whether shit like this will make the world worse for me and my kids.

xp: YES EXACTLY JCLC

I've seen it suggested in several reviews that there's a satirical undercurrent to the film. The problem being that we're living in a post-satirical world filled with people who lack the critical faculties to differentiate satire from a call to arms.

xpost JCLC otm

It's funny how they pulled that "naughty liberals hunting down MAGA chuds" movie in case it was a bad influence but this is like "here you go scumbags knock yourselves out"

Every review I've read of this has not mentioned satire and in fact has said the movie's lack of a clear POV seriously undermines whatever positives the movie has.

I've seen it suggested in several reviews that there's a satirical undercurrent to the film. The problem being that we're living in a post-satirical world filled with people who lack the critical faculties to differentiate satire from a call to arms.

I mean, people took Natural Born Killers at face value; we've been in a post-satirical world for at least the entirety of my adult life

I'm just so fucking tired of comic book movies

i'm wondering what the movie-themed beer at the local brewhouse/cinema will be. a sour would be truly twisted

https://d27dyaf1itptjc.cloudfront.net/brews/joker-ipa/_brew_portrait_large/JOKER-IPA-WEBSITE_180704_171455.png?mtime=20180704171455

https://i.imgur.com/b4inf0n.jpg

A N A R C H Y G R A P H I C S

WEISS SO SERIOUS

at this point 'the joker' as a character no longer exists in any meaningful way, its a costume

just like masculinity

i have a sinking feeling that some nutbag is going to use the opening of this film to shoot up a movie theater again.

arent there celebrated graphic novels with joker origin stories just as described

and it doesn't need saying but ppl are shooting up every conceivable venue in the states regardless of a joker movie or not

Lest we forget, one of the most infamous mass shootings was at a Batman screening.

not forgetting it at all, we had a thread recently asking pretty much the explicit question. you have a guy with a history of dissociative mh issues and worrying behaviour able to get a shitload of automatic weapons and a culture where for whatever reason the desire is bubbling up more and more to utilise those weapons against massed bunch of strangers.

maybe the "whatever reason" is characters in movies, to some extent, is this now an open opinion? at what stage (and look i know its a trope sorry) are you charlton heston, but for free?

what's this about my issues

Would be pretty funny if all these lads turned up tooled up to the same cinema at the same time

People on the edge can be nudged by the slightest of breezes. The Joker movie isn't going to make a mass shooter of anyone who wasn't already careening headlong in that direction and just looking for something to blame it on.

Not that (assuming the reviews accurately reflect the film's content) releasing this thing at this point in time isn't pretty goddamn irresponsible.

I'm not of the opinion that it should be banned or anything, just that it was a bad idea in the first place

on the bright side, some kids might end up watching The King of Comedy

on the other hand, we might create a new generation of Scorsese dudes who have Taxi Driver posters on their walls

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ea/6b/d1/ea6bd1a934d27512ea7208f5bac9d9aa.jpg

ridle me this jokeman

imo he should have kept the mustache from Her and, when he dons greasepaint, covered it Cesar Romero-style

The plot twist in this is that the Joker...is all of us

Hope Maron gets in a "So who were your guys, Joker? Alice Cooper?"

Wonder if he's going to eat China in this

you cannot marry an OS, jokeHer

Yeah so I'm going to come right out and say that as a black man, I feel like things like this explicitly put a target on my back and my family's backs and I already have enough of them, thanks. This is particularly true for me in a way it is not for most, if not all, of you, and your glib nonsense can eat my entire black ass.

another thing annoying about this -- maybe a centrally annoying thing -- is that the Joker already has a canonical origin story. (fell into a vat of acid while trying to rob his employer; emerged disfigured. was already criminal. there are other origin stories, of course, the comics do that.) the "he tells the story differently" thing, I've learned this morning, also began in the comics -- Batman observes at one point that, as a comedian, the Joker uses whatever material works for him.

but in almost every version with a fleshed-out story -- in every version other than ones just narrated by the unreliable Joker -- his criminality precedes the transformation. this is important, because the very people whose existence ensures that I wouldn't see this in the theater even if I'm certain I'd enjoy Phoenix's performance a lot are people who believe that the world owes them some form of restoration for their grievances. "If people had been nicer to the Joker, he wouldn't have had to kill all those people" is a particularly dangerous thesis to be presenting in 2019. Barring some "this is the story as he's telling it; none of it is true" revelation in the film, this thing looks pretty fucking irresponsible.

Also the Taxi Driver comparisons are feeling a little off since one thing about that film is that it had people surrounding Travis Bickle who were—despite his clear social awkwardness and weird tendencies—very decent to him, but he couldn’t overcome his issues and occasionally gave into his violence before he totally snapped (he killed a guy who was sticking up a bodega, and it’s hinted that maybe he did it because he was just a bit racist maybe). He didn’t have guys bullying him.

Joker movie feels like the gritty version of the Crazy Joe Davola clown episode from Seinfeld.

(In case it doesn't read clearly enough, my read above is in support of brigadier pudding's concerns. the "imagined grievances" of the Joker as seen in the trailer & described in reviews are the grievances of entitlement, specifically white male entitlement, which has always been violent but which, under the current admin & in the current climate, is surging. A movie that lends support to the grievances of white entitlement -- that nurses "white guy gets violent revenge for not getting what he wants" narratives -- is dangerous, especially to black people in the US in 2019.)

"I wanted people to take my posts seriously so I chose the screen name 'brigadier pudding'" - me in 2019

thank you for your service to the crown

(In case it doesn't read clearly enough, my read above is in support of brigadier pudding's concerns. the "imagined grievances" of the Joker as seen in the trailer & described in reviews are the grievances of entitlement, specifically white male entitlement, which has always been violent but which, under the current admin & in the current climate, is surging. A movie that lends support to the grievances of white entitlement -- that nurses "white guy gets violent revenge for not getting what he wants" narratives -- is dangerous, especially to black people in the US in 2019.)

I do think people regardless of skin color are entitled to not getting beaten up for twirling a sign but I don't think everyone is entitled to bone Zazie Beets

I mean, people took Natural Born Killers at face value; we've been in a post-satirical world for at least the entirety of my adult life

should have cast this guy as the joker:

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BZmEwZWY2MzItYWQwZi00Nzg3LTg1MTYtMWZmZWM2MTNlMmI5XkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNjI4OTE1MTA@._V1_.jpg

arent there celebrated graphic novels with joker origin stories just as described

no afaik btw

Surprised this is going to show in 70mm at my city’s main arthouse theater (the Music Box).

Good review:

From Venice: JOKER gives us the first incel folk hero. https://t.co/9wtCTKpS9a

— Stephanie Zacharek (@szacharek) August 31, 2019

not surprised that joaquin would be involved with a bad idea like this. he's the guy who spent 2 years pretending to be retarded because ben affleck's brother asked him to.

Aren't all the criticisms that are being leveled at this equally true of Taxi Driver? I mean maybe Taxi Driver deserves the same criticisms, IDK.