Impeach Trump Y/N

"Is it or is it not untrue that you may or may not be a member or nonmember of what is often referred to as the 'Deep State'?"

GOP mostly running scared, it seems like. My guess is they are waiting to see how this shows up in the polls before making any real moves.

I mean I'm not surprised re: Hurd but other rumblings like from that Ohio rep don't bode well

they got their tax cut, can cut him loose whenever & find their next boss who'll cut taxes more

lol yes that was my thought too

Vermont GOP governor now also publicly in favor of impeachment fwiw (not much)

If they do their calculus and think they can save their own hides while throwing Trump to the wolves, they'll do it. But if they think turning on Trump will doom them at the ballot box, they won't.

I mean, people act like there's some weird cult of TrUmP but like people put "W" stickers on their SUVs before they got bored of the war & the economy died, the GOP cult of personality is a symptom rather than the illness itself

what if they are doomed either way, which is possible?

I mean, yeah, I've thought for a while that there must be republicans who are like 'we got two SC justices, maybe it's time to cut this dumbfuck loose'. You have to imagine that some of these preening sleazebags are capable of imagining a post-Trump landscape that will regard their cheerleading unfavorably if they don't start the damage control ASAP.

I've thought for a while that there must be republicans who are like 'we got two SC justices, maybe it's time to cut this dumbfuck loose'.

I think this is the majority of the GOP in the Senate tbh. (There's more true believer Trumpers like Nunes in the House)

first republican governor (Vermont) just called for Trump to be impeached

yeah, i know, it's Vermont. but still

Hm, I wonder if Larry Hogan (MD) will chime in? He's spoken up against Trump before.

He should be impeached for hinting at the death penalty for Biden and the whistleblower alone.

Look my entire political knowledge here is based on me having read "The Final Days" last year, but this sure looks a lot like what happened when the Smoking Gun tape came out. It's not 1974 though and I fully expect things to go down differently last time, if only because '74 had a Bad End and I refuse to accept that outcome.

still i look to find a treason to believe

that Brad Simpson thread:

Before getting on phone calls like this, both Trump and Zelenskyy will have gotten briefing materials with talking points and what the other party wants to talk about

and Zelenskyy probably read some of his.

I think the Republicans know Trump is the only person who can deliver them the presidency in 2020. maybe I'm wrong but I think it's going to be a long time before the party's base is going to accept some charisma-less dope like Tom Cotton or Josh Hawley (to say nothing of Pence). meanwhile, they don't have another carnival-barker madman waiting in the wings.

Trey Gowdy's got nothing going on ....

They will accept literally anybody who has an (R) after their name. Anyone who says "Guns for all, abortions for none, immigrants bad, God good". Someone milquetoast would have to be better at attracting "independents" and whatnot.

pareene:

A rush to a narrow impeachment strictly on the president’s attempt to coerce or bribe a foreign country into digging up dirt on a domestic political rival might sound strategically sounder than a lengthy and wide-ranging investigation into every other rotten thing the president and his cronies have done. A narrative that is easy to explain seems to be an essential part of a “successful” presidential impeachment (though the sample size is small). But the thing is, I want to know what is up with every other rotten thing the president and his cronies have done more than I want him to be impeached by the House.

https://newrepublic.com/article/155182/impeachment-trump-america-deserves-answers

that's a good piece. Dems need to be honest with themselves that none of this is going to result in Trump actually being removed from office, so why rush through impeachment?

which is also why a single-minded emphasis on Ukraine/Biden is not good strategery

Who wants to rush? We need to stretch this out as long as possible. I want it to take such a painful, devastating toll on him that he looks like Pizza the Hutt by the time the election rolls around.

there are 6 different house committee investigations, under the umbrella of impeachment inquiry, which were ongoing before the ukraine/whistleblower stuff happened, so i don't think they'll focus on just ukraine.

it's been like, what, 48 hours since this shit start bubbling up and he's freaking the fuck out even worse than usual. "Trump Increasingly Isolated" coming from the NYT in 3,2,1...

What about the swing voters (who always swing Republican)?

imho, the phone call notes released by the justice department is looking less and less like a smoking gun.

I watched the whole hearing today and listened to house minority leader, (R) Kevin Mccarthy, defend Trump. He made it seem like asking for dirt on Biden isn't akin to treason because Trump wasn't pressing Zelenskyy for dirt. It was more of an "oh by the way" comment at the end of the phone call (even though he wanted Giuliani and Barr to talk to him about it). If those phone calls were released there might be a smoking gun.

even in the edited summary released by the white house, it is not at all characterized that way. have you read it?

re: the actual recording of the phone call, it is likely that there is a recording on the US side (i doubt it'll come to light), and there is certainly a recording of it from Ukraine. doubt either one of them will be provided, at least until after the 2020 election

it's been like, what, 48 hours since this shit start bubbling up and he's freaking the fuck out even worse than usual

his recent implication that we should execute the whistleblower surprised even me

He was murmuring about joe biden and the electric chair the other day. He’s adopted a more murderous frame of mind recently. I hear he’s increasingly isolated

imho, the phone call notes released by the justice department is looking less and less like a smoking gun.

I watched the whole hearing today and listened to house minority leader, (R) Kevin Mccarthy, defend Trump. He made it seem like asking for dirt on Biden isn't akin to treason because Trump wasn't pressing Zelenskyy for dirt. It was more of an "oh by the way" comment at the end of the phone call (even though he wanted Giuliani and Barr to talk to him about it). If those phone calls were released there might be a smoking gun.

― brain dead operatus (FlopsyDuck),

i mean yeah total cool and legal so no need try and suppress the information from coming out until you had no fucking choice !

i think we should listen to more of what kevin mccarthy has to say, he is definitely someone who says things in good faith. we can trust mccarthy, real good guy

wasn't McCarthy the guy who basically admitted the whole point of Benghazi was to hurt Hillary Clinton

which is also why a single-minded emphasis on Ukraine/Biden is not good strategery

― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, September 26, 2019 1

did you read Jonathan Schell's The Time of Illusion? All kinds of shit emerges no matter how small the focus.

Just like the testimony today. Much of it (too much) was focused on Macguire's decision process (I see the legal bind he was in), but some of it veered toward "Wait, why the fuck was Rudy involved at all? Does he have security clearance?"

I think the Republicans know Trump is the only person who can deliver them the presidency in 2020. maybe I'm wrong but I think it's going to be a long time before the party's base is going to accept some charisma-less dope like Tom Cotton or Josh Hawley (to say nothing of Pence). meanwhile, they don't have another carnival-barker madman waiting in the wings.

― Evans on Hammond (evol j)

oh look the Pivot is coming, these guys are totally unprincipled weasels and at some point it stands to reason they'll just look at 1974 and see how fucking well that worked out for them and work to replicate it. the party's base are just as unprincipled as they are and are permanently amnesiac.

to karl, yes I read the transcript. the actual "do me a favor" line has to do with a missing democratic server (conspiracy theory).

McCarthy is obviously a bad man but lies and spin have protected the president thus far. moving phone calls = protecting them -_-

That's why we need a better smoking gun then just the call notes we have so far. Sadly, there isn't a clear enough line between withholding funds and asking for dirt on a political rival. It is pretty fucking clear, but until the clear rate is 98-100%, republicans have reasonable doubt to work their magic.

we're not even 48 hours after Pelosi got off her ass, chill out

who's not chill?

It is pretty fucking clear, but until the clear rate is 98-100%, republicans have reasonable doubt to work their magic.

lol even 100% clear rate wouldn't make the Senate GOP turn around, this is all down to their electoral calculus re: their base and absolutely nothing else

yep

right, but this isn't just about the president's base, the senator's that are up for reelection might take a blow if they support a crime that is 100% clear

which is why I said (either upthread or on the other thread) most of the Senate GOP are hemming and hawing until they see some polling data

in the meantime they will continue to be either "deeply troubled" or happy about their "nothingburgers"

to karl, yes I read the transcript. the actual "do me a favor" line has to do with a missing democratic server (conspiracy theory).

That is an extremely narrow reading of the document. Moments before that line, he was talking about withholding the military aid to Ukraine, and he spent the first part of the call establishing that the US had done a lot for Ukraine and that the support had not been “reciprocal”

Wow. Tide is shifting *very* quickly. 22% of Republicans strongly support impeachment, 10% of Republicans somewhat support impeachment. Only 49% of Republicans oppose impeachment.https://t.co/FuLcXkaQxg pic.twitter.com/iGQ6NYBhbm

— Zach Wahls (@ZachWahls) September 26, 2019

oh cool

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/463233-voters-split-on-whether-trumps-actions-toward-ukraine-amount-to

“The poll shows that the public has serious concern over the Trump actions, with 50 percent favoring impeachment if he ‘pressured’ the Ukrainian leader but only 45 percent if he just ‘asked’ for the investigation,” Mark Penn, the co-director of the Harvard CAPS/Harris poll, said.

“These are generally higher numbers than during the Mueller investigation and most consider his actions inappropriate even if not impeachable,” Penn added, referring to former special counsel Robert Muller’s probe into whether the Trump campaign coordinated with Russian officials to influence the results of the 2016 presidential election.

All kinds of shit emerges no matter how small the focus

not always, when it's Democrats doing the focusing