If they do their calculus and think they can save their own hides while throwing Trump to the wolves, they'll do it. But if they think turning on Trump will doom them at the ballot box, they won't.
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 26 September 2019 16:33 (five years ago) link
I mean, people act like there's some weird cult of TrUmP but like people put "W" stickers on their SUVs before they got bored of the war & the economy died, the GOP cult of personality is a symptom rather than the illness itself
― L'assie (Euler), Thursday, 26 September 2019 16:34 (five years ago) link
what if they are doomed either way, which is possible?
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 26 September 2019 16:35 (five years ago) link
I mean, yeah, I've thought for a while that there must be republicans who are like 'we got two SC justices, maybe it's time to cut this dumbfuck loose'. You have to imagine that some of these preening sleazebags are capable of imagining a post-Trump landscape that will regard their cheerleading unfavorably if they don't start the damage control ASAP.
― It Seems I've Seen a Steaming Stream Pissed from a Presidential Peen (Old Lunch), Thursday, 26 September 2019 16:35 (five years ago) link
I've thought for a while that there must be republicans who are like 'we got two SC justices, maybe it's time to cut this dumbfuck loose'.
I think this is the majority of the GOP in the Senate tbh. (There's more true believer Trumpers like Nunes in the House)
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 26 September 2019 16:39 (five years ago) link
first republican governor (Vermont) just called for Trump to be impeached
yeah, i know, it's Vermont. but still
― Sally Jessy (Karl Malone), Thursday, 26 September 2019 16:47 (five years ago) link
Hm, I wonder if Larry Hogan (MD) will chime in? He's spoken up against Trump before.
― ☮ (peace, man), Thursday, 26 September 2019 17:09 (five years ago) link
He should be impeached for hinting at the death penalty for Biden and the whistleblower alone.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 26 September 2019 17:10 (five years ago) link
Look my entire political knowledge here is based on me having read "The Final Days" last year, but this sure looks a lot like what happened when the Smoking Gun tape came out. It's not 1974 though and I fully expect things to go down differently last time, if only because '74 had a Bad End and I refuse to accept that outcome.
― Poody Mae Bubblebutt, Miss Kumquat of 1947 (rushomancy), Thursday, 26 September 2019 17:10 (five years ago) link
still i look to find a treason to believe
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 26 September 2019 17:13 (five years ago) link
that Brad Simpson thread:
Before getting on phone calls like this, both Trump and Zelenskyy will have gotten briefing materials with talking points and what the other party wants to talk about
and Zelenskyy probably read some of his.
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 26 September 2019 17:15 (five years ago) link
I think the Republicans know Trump is the only person who can deliver them the presidency in 2020. maybe I'm wrong but I think it's going to be a long time before the party's base is going to accept some charisma-less dope like Tom Cotton or Josh Hawley (to say nothing of Pence). meanwhile, they don't have another carnival-barker madman waiting in the wings.
― Evans on Hammond (evol j), Thursday, 26 September 2019 17:16 (five years ago) link
Trey Gowdy's got nothing going on ....
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 26 September 2019 17:19 (five years ago) link
They will accept literally anybody who has an (R) after their name. Anyone who says "Guns for all, abortions for none, immigrants bad, God good". Someone milquetoast would have to be better at attracting "independents" and whatnot.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Thursday, 26 September 2019 17:21 (five years ago) link
pareene:
A rush to a narrow impeachment strictly on the president’s attempt to coerce or bribe a foreign country into digging up dirt on a domestic political rival might sound strategically sounder than a lengthy and wide-ranging investigation into every other rotten thing the president and his cronies have done. A narrative that is easy to explain seems to be an essential part of a “successful” presidential impeachment (though the sample size is small). But the thing is, I want to know what is up with every other rotten thing the president and his cronies have done more than I want him to be impeached by the House.
https://newrepublic.com/article/155182/impeachment-trump-america-deserves-answers
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 26 September 2019 17:21 (five years ago) link
that's a good piece. Dems need to be honest with themselves that none of this is going to result in Trump actually being removed from office, so why rush through impeachment?
― Evans on Hammond (evol j), Thursday, 26 September 2019 17:24 (five years ago) link
which is also why a single-minded emphasis on Ukraine/Biden is not good strategery
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 26 September 2019 17:26 (five years ago) link
Who wants to rush? We need to stretch this out as long as possible. I want it to take such a painful, devastating toll on him that he looks like Pizza the Hutt by the time the election rolls around.
― Steampunk wasn't in my vocapulary 6 days ago. (Old Lunch), Thursday, 26 September 2019 17:27 (five years ago) link
there are 6 different house committee investigations, under the umbrella of impeachment inquiry, which were ongoing before the ukraine/whistleblower stuff happened, so i don't think they'll focus on just ukraine.
― Sally Jessy (Karl Malone), Thursday, 26 September 2019 17:28 (five years ago) link
it's been like, what, 48 hours since this shit start bubbling up and he's freaking the fuck out even worse than usual. "Trump Increasingly Isolated" coming from the NYT in 3,2,1...
― Evans on Hammond (evol j), Thursday, 26 September 2019 17:29 (five years ago) link
What about the swing voters (who always swing Republican)?
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 26 September 2019 17:38 (five years ago) link
imho, the phone call notes released by the justice department is looking less and less like a smoking gun.
I watched the whole hearing today and listened to house minority leader, (R) Kevin Mccarthy, defend Trump. He made it seem like asking for dirt on Biden isn't akin to treason because Trump wasn't pressing Zelenskyy for dirt. It was more of an "oh by the way" comment at the end of the phone call (even though he wanted Giuliani and Barr to talk to him about it). If those phone calls were released there might be a smoking gun.
― brain dead operatus (FlopsyDuck), Thursday, 26 September 2019 17:38 (five years ago) link
even in the edited summary released by the white house, it is not at all characterized that way. have you read it?
― Sally Jessy (Karl Malone), Thursday, 26 September 2019 17:40 (five years ago) link
re: the actual recording of the phone call, it is likely that there is a recording on the US side (i doubt it'll come to light), and there is certainly a recording of it from Ukraine. doubt either one of them will be provided, at least until after the 2020 election
― Sally Jessy (Karl Malone), Thursday, 26 September 2019 17:41 (five years ago) link
it's been like, what, 48 hours since this shit start bubbling up and he's freaking the fuck out even worse than usual
his recent implication that we should execute the whistleblower surprised even me
― frogbs, Thursday, 26 September 2019 17:42 (five years ago) link
He was murmuring about joe biden and the electric chair the other day. He’s adopted a more murderous frame of mind recently. I hear he’s increasingly isolated
― treeship., Thursday, 26 September 2019 17:43 (five years ago) link
― brain dead operatus (FlopsyDuck),
i mean yeah total cool and legal so no need try and suppress the information from coming out until you had no fucking choice !
― (•̪●) (carne asada), Thursday, 26 September 2019 17:44 (five years ago) link
i think we should listen to more of what kevin mccarthy has to say, he is definitely someone who says things in good faith. we can trust mccarthy, real good guy
― Sally Jessy (Karl Malone), Thursday, 26 September 2019 17:45 (five years ago) link
wasn't McCarthy the guy who basically admitted the whole point of Benghazi was to hurt Hillary Clinton
― frogbs, Thursday, 26 September 2019 17:47 (five years ago) link
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, September 26, 2019 1
did you read Jonathan Schell's The Time of Illusion? All kinds of shit emerges no matter how small the focus.
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 26 September 2019 17:49 (five years ago) link
Just like the testimony today. Much of it (too much) was focused on Macguire's decision process (I see the legal bind he was in), but some of it veered toward "Wait, why the fuck was Rudy involved at all? Does he have security clearance?"
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 26 September 2019 17:50 (five years ago) link
― Evans on Hammond (evol j)
oh look the Pivot is coming, these guys are totally unprincipled weasels and at some point it stands to reason they'll just look at 1974 and see how fucking well that worked out for them and work to replicate it. the party's base are just as unprincipled as they are and are permanently amnesiac.
― Poody Mae Bubblebutt, Miss Kumquat of 1947 (rushomancy), Thursday, 26 September 2019 18:01 (five years ago) link
to karl, yes I read the transcript. the actual "do me a favor" line has to do with a missing democratic server (conspiracy theory).
McCarthy is obviously a bad man but lies and spin have protected the president thus far. moving phone calls = protecting them -_-
That's why we need a better smoking gun then just the call notes we have so far. Sadly, there isn't a clear enough line between withholding funds and asking for dirt on a political rival. It is pretty fucking clear, but until the clear rate is 98-100%, republicans have reasonable doubt to work their magic.
― brain dead operatus (FlopsyDuck), Thursday, 26 September 2019 18:04 (five years ago) link
we're not even 48 hours after Pelosi got off her ass, chill out
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 26 September 2019 18:06 (five years ago) link
who's not chill?
― brain dead operatus (FlopsyDuck), Thursday, 26 September 2019 18:07 (five years ago) link
It is pretty fucking clear, but until the clear rate is 98-100%, republicans have reasonable doubt to work their magic.
lol even 100% clear rate wouldn't make the Senate GOP turn around, this is all down to their electoral calculus re: their base and absolutely nothing else
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 26 September 2019 18:08 (five years ago) link
yep
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 26 September 2019 18:11 (five years ago) link
right, but this isn't just about the president's base, the senator's that are up for reelection might take a blow if they support a crime that is 100% clear
― brain dead operatus (FlopsyDuck), Thursday, 26 September 2019 18:12 (five years ago) link
which is why I said (either upthread or on the other thread) most of the Senate GOP are hemming and hawing until they see some polling data
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 26 September 2019 18:13 (five years ago) link
in the meantime they will continue to be either "deeply troubled" or happy about their "nothingburgers"
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 26 September 2019 18:14 (five years ago) link
to karl, yes I read the transcript. the actual "do me a favor" line has to do with a missing democratic server (conspiracy theory).That is an extremely narrow reading of the document. Moments before that line, he was talking about withholding the military aid to Ukraine, and he spent the first part of the call establishing that the US had done a lot for Ukraine and that the support had not been “reciprocal”
― Sally Jessy (Karl Malone), Thursday, 26 September 2019 18:17 (five years ago) link
Wow. Tide is shifting *very* quickly. 22% of Republicans strongly support impeachment, 10% of Republicans somewhat support impeachment. Only 49% of Republicans oppose impeachment.https://t.co/FuLcXkaQxg pic.twitter.com/iGQ6NYBhbm— Zach Wahls (@ZachWahls) September 26, 2019
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 26 September 2019 18:23 (five years ago) link
oh cool
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/463233-voters-split-on-whether-trumps-actions-toward-ukraine-amount-to
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 26 September 2019 18:25 (five years ago) link
“The poll shows that the public has serious concern over the Trump actions, with 50 percent favoring impeachment if he ‘pressured’ the Ukrainian leader but only 45 percent if he just ‘asked’ for the investigation,” Mark Penn, the co-director of the Harvard CAPS/Harris poll, said.
“These are generally higher numbers than during the Mueller investigation and most consider his actions inappropriate even if not impeachable,” Penn added, referring to former special counsel Robert Muller’s probe into whether the Trump campaign coordinated with Russian officials to influence the results of the 2016 presidential election.
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 26 September 2019 18:26 (five years ago) link
All kinds of shit emerges no matter how small the focus
not always, when it's Democrats doing the focusing
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 26 September 2019 18:27 (five years ago) link
Flopsy, I'm not sure if you're willfully ignoring the much smokier gun of Trump & Co. apparently trying to hide the existence of this wholly-innocuous call but it is, perhaps, worthy of note.
― Steampunk wasn't in my vocapulary 6 days ago. (Old Lunch), Thursday, 26 September 2019 18:27 (five years ago) link
notice how not a single person has said something along the lines of "this just does not seem like something the President would do". even his diehards are like yeah sounds about right lol.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Thursday, 26 September 2019 18:29 (five years ago) link
Well tbf Lindsay Graham apparently didn't think he was capable of being so nice as he was on the call. And Lindsay's a smart guy.
― Steampunk wasn't in my vocapulary 6 days ago. (Old Lunch), Thursday, 26 September 2019 18:31 (five years ago) link
The whistleblower claims that this was "not the first time" that a highly classified system was used to protect "politically sensitive - rather than national security sensitive - information"
i would guess this will be explored more in the upcoming hearings
― (•̪●) (carne asada), Thursday, 26 September 2019 18:32 (five years ago) link
He should have done a GWB and get a lawyer to write him a note that said it was cool to do this
― Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Thursday, 26 September 2019 18:32 (five years ago) link