they're all good i think
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 3 October 2019 21:58 (four years ago) link
http://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2011/01/narnia-week-heaven-heaven-is-a-place-a-place-where-nothing-nothing-ever-happens/
― mark s, Thursday, 3 October 2019 22:00 (four years ago) link
my fave was always dawn treader: must have read it a dozen times. love a voyage.
silver chair was the creepiest, in which narnia felt the oldest (in spite of magician's nephew).
i am an original-sequence loyalist.
― difficult listening hour, Friday, 4 October 2019 02:57 (four years ago) link
Well shit I was reading the years old thread thinking “the horse and his boy is the best” and there you go
It was later that Allah Tash was problematically represented as some spider-vulture; Horse is colonialist but well told and sympathetic— the secondary-character nature of the Four Monarchs is a narrative coup
Silver Chair overrated but goodPrince Caspian boringLast Battle and incredibly constructed bit of traumatizing filthWhite Witch is lessened by Nephew— also how dare you read it first, your job as a librarian is effectively cancelled— Digory and Jane (?) remarkably good protagonistsTreader is good because Eustace is a great character Wardrobe is my favourite after Horse— so weird that Santa shows up but I like the anachronism in fantasy— imagine if Krishna was a random character in Dune that’d be sick
― i could chug a keg of you (flamboyant goon tie included), Friday, 4 October 2019 03:09 (four years ago) link
great piece mark, lol @ this:
I like to think that Professor Digory Kirke lost his nice house when he lost his job as a professor — after the school inspectors who’d been at Experiment House audited one of his lessons and realised he’d never actually read The Republic…
the deposed Head becomes an MP, iirc, so odds are good
experiment house btw is such a strange satire. from wiki
Created by the author to express his disdain with modern educational methods, it is co-educational where children are allowed to do as they please and can feel free to bully other children. It is run by a female Head who devotes her attention more to bullies, whom she sees as interesting psychological cases who she does not punish, than well-behaved children.
you'd think your average grumpy conservative constructing a progressive-school strawman would lament the loss of bullying's darwinian power to improve, or maybe i am thinking too modern-US; maybe there's a contemporary body of education-policy criticism EH fits snugly into, but lewis' political/religious idiosyncrasy in general makes me think prob not. regardless my understanding is that the nonprogressive UK school system of his day was not exactly institutionally bullyfree.
anyway the absurdity of this picture of an entirely upside-down hell-school-- presumably the top of the class is all the most consistent truants-- has made it always stick w me in a way a more trad "eustace had received an alligator in mathematics" would not. (for example my personal image of the opening of silver chair has always been reused for YOU! YOU BEHIND THE BIKE SHED!!! even tho this is not actually appropriate at all, or is it.)
― difficult listening hour, Friday, 4 October 2019 03:26 (four years ago) link
i have consulted the text and darragh is (of course) correct
Reshpeckobiggle
― mookieproof, Friday, 4 October 2019 04:15 (four years ago) link
also pretty rude that no one complimented me on my cuteness reading prince caspian above
guess i'll put a bold face on it
― mookieproof, Friday, 4 October 2019 04:20 (four years ago) link
no wonder Aslan instructs Caspian, Eustace, and Rilian to slap'em with the sides of their swords.
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 4 October 2019 10:22 (four years ago) link
Prince Caspian suffers from the structural tediousness of telling yet another origin story, only the Pevensies are marginalized. Yet I get a thrill when Caspian watches in awe as Trufflehunter (great character), and Trumpkin (same) confirm the existence of Old Narnia, one character at a time: Glenstorm, Patterwig, the Three Bulgy Bears, and, of course, Reepicheek.
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 4 October 2019 10:27 (four years ago) link
and no Narnia chronicle is complete without a wtf sequence: the awakening of the River God and his daughters and the appearance of Bacchus.
that wtf sequence explored*: http://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2008/07/the-chronicles-of-narnia-part-2-prince-caspian-or-whos-got-the-hornalso (since i'm apparently doing this) why the dawn treader is good not bad film: http://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2011/01/narnia-week-what-you-see-is-what-you-getbook: http://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2014/06/narnian-origins-imagined-islands-in-the-great-green-sea-of-gloom
*some of this one reads a bit FT in-jokey in retrospect so apologies for that in advance, i wasn't on ilx at this time or caring much abt the "wider reader"
― mark s, Friday, 4 October 2019 11:06 (four years ago) link
The problem of the Telmarines: book-Telmarines are Puritan colonisers, Early Americans if you will, pirates-turned-moralisers out of sync with the nature they’ve invaded. They had excellent pointy helmets and nifty mini-skirts. Film-Telmarines are Spanish Conquistadors extpriating the Aztecs, proud and treachorous all, except for tyrant-usurper Miraz, who is Hitler obv, and therefore Iranian.
man that movie -- to quote TSC's Glimfeather, "Too true, too true!"
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 4 October 2019 11:14 (four years ago) link
I liked PC-the-film's concept of a High King Peter who's not so High King after all when called upon to recall his old moves. Lewis does mention Peter's putative strategy and Magnificence in those allusions to endless wars with the Giants of the North.
Back to PC: it's as credible that flop-haired Cesar Romero Caspian would think, "Who the fuck are you, High King? I'm in charge now, you're an illustration in a book" as it would be credible for "The High King in Command."
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 4 October 2019 11:20 (four years ago) link
Shout out to the King Edmunds. Edmund I of England, and Edmund Pevensie from The Chronicles of Narnia.— wikishoutouts (@wikishoutouts) September 4, 2019
― mookieproof, Saturday, 5 October 2019 02:19 (four years ago) link
love how Eustace does not get less unlikeable as the series proceeds.
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, May 21, 2015
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 11 November 2019 01:28 (four years ago) link
I need to reread these. Remember really liking The Silver Chair, though, and the descriptions of Charn still stick with me even now. Know it’s basic af, but the ending of TLB really knocked me sideways - it just feels so casually cruel! Millions of people have said about this, but honestly, the thought of being a parent having to explain that...nah
― gyac, Monday, 11 November 2019 08:25 (four years ago) link
TLB's underlying ethos is a facer ("dying young in a horrible railway accident is good and here's why") but it absolutely has some of the best-realised and and most startling tableaux along the way
― mark s, Monday, 11 November 2019 10:07 (four years ago) link
Started reading these on a whim with my 8-year-old, in the correct order. So far halfway through TMN and it's just as good as I remember, perhaps even better.My opinion as a kid was TH&HB > TMN >>>> TSC > TVOTDT > THTW&TW >>>> PC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> TLB - so will be interested to see if I still agree with myself aged 10.
― Camaraderie at Arms Length, Tuesday, 31 January 2023 21:41 (one year ago) link
It’s been too long since I’ve read these.
― The Triumphant Return of Bernard & Stubbs (Raymond Cummings), Tuesday, 31 January 2023 21:49 (one year ago) link
xp -- re yr placing of TLB: yrself aged 10 was nuts and very wrong
― mark s, Tuesday, 31 January 2023 21:49 (one year ago) link
I was a 10-year-old Catholic kid and I genuinely think it may have been one of the first cracks that led to my atheism by the age of 15, just "what kind of sick fuck thinks this is a good thing to publish as a kids' book and do I really want to be in their club?:
― Camaraderie at Arms Length, Tuesday, 31 January 2023 21:52 (one year ago) link
That was kinda about my reaction too at 10. (Even if I was more of a relaxed but earnest Anglican.)
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 31 January 2023 21:55 (one year ago) link
I took the Devil and His Works very seriously at that point, remember being equally traumatised by the end of Time Bandits and listening to REM's "Star Me Kitten" on headphones on holiday in France (I had the idea that the cassette had been somehow possessed, really a very good job I lost the religion before I started on the drugs)
― Camaraderie at Arms Length, Tuesday, 31 January 2023 21:58 (one year ago) link
what kind of sick fuck thinks this is a good thing to publish as a kids' book and do I really want to be in their club?
The best part.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 31 January 2023 21:58 (one year ago) link
yrself aged 10 was nuts and very wrong
new borad description
― I HAVE NO IDEA HOW THE DIAPER GOT LOOSE (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 31 January 2023 22:03 (one year ago) link
tash! tash! inexorable tash!
― mark s, Tuesday, 31 January 2023 22:06 (one year ago) link
I mean in my case it wasn't helped by the fact that my babysitter had apocalyptic Jack Chick tracts around, which I inevitably read. I didn't suddenly renounce theological belief but as the years went by I could pinpoint where the disenchantment derived from. (Certainly there's arresting imagery in The Last Battle, the squeezing out of the sun and so forth, but...)
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 31 January 2023 22:06 (one year ago) link
Respectowiggle.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 31 January 2023 22:17 (one year ago) link
i don't remember having any inkling about the christianity when i read these as a kid
― Kieth Encounter (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 31 January 2023 22:49 (one year ago) link
I was aware of it but loving Aslan was cooler than loving Jesus.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 31 January 2023 22:50 (one year ago) link
the last battle is good not bad, few know this
― mark s, Thursday, October 3, 2019
otm
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 31 January 2023 22:52 (one year ago) link
the religion in TLTW&TW is so heavy-handed that it would take an idiot child not to spot it, and I was absolutely that idiot child
― Camaraderie at Arms Length, Tuesday, 31 January 2023 22:52 (one year ago) link
i do remember loving TLB because i was already a very depressed child
― Kieth Encounter (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 31 January 2023 22:54 (one year ago) link
come further up, come further in!
I took this as gospel as a newly gay man.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 31 January 2023 22:58 (one year ago) link
i never got around to reading the books, just saw the BBC series in 5th grade (well, as far as they got into it).
― I HAVE NO IDEA HOW THE DIAPER GOT LOOSE (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 31 January 2023 23:43 (one year ago) link
for years I thought "Cair Paravel" was someone saying "Camp Parallel" with an accent
coincidentally i have also just started (re-)reading these w my 11 yo and yeah MN's is just tremendous. the way he makes the reader a confidante is just irresistible. i think it flags a little in the second half but comes back pretty strong at the end.
as a kid i remember thinking TH&HB was VERY boring so it's wild to see it's your favourite CAL. looking forward to it now!
― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 31 January 2023 23:48 (one year ago) link
You “order of composition” rather than “chronological in-universe” fanatics are weird as fuck. TMN is the first book and TLB the final one. How could it be any different?When I was a kid, TH&HB was the clear dog of the series, although there was so much in it that was great (Aravis; the jackals & the tombs; the phrase “O my father and o the delight of my eyes” which I briefly required my kids to address me with). Later, the heavy-handedness of TL,TW&TW and TLB put them way down the list. Sometimes I wish Aslan would just fuck off. I’ve always had a soft spot for the gloomy Silver Chair (reshpeckobiggle being a joek for the ages) — the true Prince being revealed in a desperate moment of clarity but everything had primed you and the characters and even himself to distrust and dismiss his realness — there’s something deep as hell about that motif.
― The land of dreams and endless remorse (hardcore dilettante), Wednesday, 1 February 2023 05:44 (one year ago) link
order of composition is correct. lion witch is the first book and everything else pivots around it
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 1 February 2023 06:15 (one year ago) link
Didn't vote in this, huh! Top 2 are correct because trippy Narnia is the best Narnia.
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Wednesday, 1 February 2023 06:34 (one year ago) link
the religion in TLTW&TW is so heavy-handed that it would take an idiot child not to spot it
Bssed on my experience as a kid, it suffices to not be Christian
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Wednesday, 1 February 2023 06:35 (one year ago) link
Ditto. Aslan's submission to his fate and his resurrection baffled me - "so he just comes back to life? huh." I wasn't judgemental enough to call it lame but I definitely found it lacking in narrative justification.
― ledge, Wednesday, 1 February 2023 08:36 (one year ago) link
I've only actually read that one and The Magician's Nephew. Should I read the rest now, in my 49th year?
― ledge, Wednesday, 1 February 2023 08:41 (one year ago) link
reason I don't like order of publication is that TLTW&TW is so worthy and moralistic, it's a poor start and worth getting past as track 2, not as an openerH&HB was a favourite as it took place entirely within the world and explored different cultures (not sure how I will feel abt this now of course), also I had just been to Mont Saint-Michel and imagined the city as being like that, I have always been more interested in setting than in plot or characters.
― Camaraderie at Arms Length, Wednesday, 1 February 2023 08:53 (one year ago) link
― Camaraderie at Arms Length, Wednesday, 1 February 2023 08:55 (one year ago) link
the bolt of tash falls from above
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 1 February 2023 08:56 (one year ago) link
Another reason for TMN to be canonically Book One is that it would mean they finally make a film of it next time they get around to it, instead of getting bogged down in the final third of TLTW&TW again.
― Camaraderie at Arms Length, Wednesday, 1 February 2023 09:00 (one year ago) link
Ha! It would be good finally to get a film that far into the series...
I've always been in the 'order of composition' camp. Any other way and you lose all those 'aha!' moments that I found so enchanting as a child. You're discovering things about a world as Lewis is inventing them, and that's a wonderful way to read fantasy.
― Sam Weller, Thursday, 2 February 2023 12:47 (one year ago) link
― ledge,
If not, the bolt of Tash will hit you from above.
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 2 February 2023 12:51 (one year ago) link
I guess I don't mind The Lion. The first volumes in a series are often the most awkward; the writer's creating a world and he hasn't figured out every detail (e.g. the White Witch as descendant of Lilith and the Djinn instead of, as we learn later, the queen of Charn).
― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 2 February 2023 13:24 (one year ago) link