i also disagree with the idea that 63 million trump supporters are innocent bystanders who happened to be fooled by the republican machinery. "The everyday people, the 63 million? Mostly, from what I can tell, they're just along for the ride. They're going along to get along, they're trying to be Good Americans." - i completely disagree with that. they know what's up. they know what it means to support trump. when there's a president that is so publicly racist and corrupt, from before the election to today, voting for him means SUPPORTING his behavior. remember the desmond tutu quote? “If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor." That is still true.
― It is my great honor to post on this messageboard! (Karl Malone)
Oh yes, it's absolutely true. Those 63 million people are all _responsible_ for their actions. Their actions and the beliefs which enable those actions are a problem.
Where I draw the line is the idea that those problems are our responsibility. We are literally powerless to do anything to fix their fucked up shit. The extent to which I don't worry about them is the extent to which even though they may support politicians who want me dead, they will always, in practice, consider me one of the "good ones". It's, how far do we need to go to protect ourselves? How dangerous are these people and in what ways?
Given the right circumstances, in the right situation, yeah these are dangerous people. I wouldn't make any of them prison guards (wait, what do you mean they already are?). So I try to manage the situations in which I encounter these people.
I try to stay out of dark alleys, both in the world and in my own head.
― Calpico Girlfriend (rushomancy), Friday, 4 October 2019 19:17 (four years ago) link
yeah we’re talking 3-4 million salvageable Trump voters TOPS. any attempt by democrats to woo the other 60m is just the dumbest shit ever, and anyone telling you differently actually wants the Democrats to lose.
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Friday, 4 October 2019 19:19 (four years ago) link
I think a lot of these people are dangerous because they are idiots, which is not necessarily the same as being dangerous idiots. That is, they are profoundly ignorant of politics and policy in all but the broadest sense, if that, but those broad feelings and beliefs are what (unfortunately) drive them to vote. The flip side of these folks is I suppose the people profoundly ignorant of politics and policy who *don't* vote, who are no less dangerous in effect. I think a very small fraction (though big enough) of these people in both groups are actually dangerous individuals, but maybe no more than the general population. I also don't think most of these people are necessarily bad people who mean harm and hurt on others. It's just that they are, again, so profoundly ignorant of politics and policy (for lots of reasons) that they might not consider how the politicians they support enable bad things they may not believe in. Or may not realize the ways the politicians they *don't* support could help further the *good* things they believe in! Doesn't make them entirely defensible, but they're not as bad as, say, someone like Stephen Miller or Trump himself, or militia people or whomever, who are outright sociopaths.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 4 October 2019 19:28 (four years ago) link
That's to say, I think that most people, on a micro, case by case, person by person, neighbor by neighbor basis, would offer aid or support to their fellow American if asked. But many of those same people vote for assholes, or don't vote at all.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 4 October 2019 19:30 (four years ago) link
the good news is there are literally no bad people
― cheese canopy (map), Friday, 4 October 2019 19:32 (four years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBCw4_XgouA
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Friday, 4 October 2019 19:39 (four years ago) link
I can't cosign map's post in a world that contains Logan Paul
― brigadier pudding (DJP), Friday, 4 October 2019 19:40 (four years ago) link
lol
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 4 October 2019 19:47 (four years ago) link
Chris Hayes asking a good rhetorical question: why was the US Ambassador to the EU, of which Ukraine is not a part, apparently handling anything involving Ukraine?
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 4 October 2019 19:50 (four years ago) link
xpost (Obviously there are plenty of terrible people, just not that many, probably, but it doesn't take many to ruin things for everybody.)
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 4 October 2019 19:52 (four years ago) link
Ventura in a landslide
― maffew12, Friday, October 4, 2019
Finally, The Rock has come back to Washington, DC!
― Larry Elleison (rogermexico.), Friday, 4 October 2019 19:57 (four years ago) link
However, the defeated Trump will make noise about running again, keeping them all looking small.
Trump is not going to be capable of making comprehensible noises in 2024, or of controlling his own bowels. Like Bush going down the memory hole, the second he is out of office the media will feel safe accurately describing him as a senile, racist, incompetent idiot.
― now let's play big lunch take little lunch (sic), Friday, 4 October 2019 19:59 (four years ago) link
totally agree with Josh's take
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Friday, 4 October 2019 20:00 (four years ago) link
but that's not Bush anymore, he's that nice fella who gives Michelle Obama candy at funerals
so sez Val Jarrett and those other cogs
xp
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 4 October 2019 20:01 (four years ago) link
also trying to predict anything about 2024 now is like trying to predict President Trump in 2013
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 4 October 2019 20:02 (four years ago) link
or tomorrow.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 4 October 2019 20:03 (four years ago) link
I had a guy in his early 20s recently ask me "so I've been hearing about democrats and uh what's the other ones? repulicans? yeah. what's the deal with them, what are the differences?". I don't think he's all that unusual in just being totally ignorant wrt politics.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Friday, 4 October 2019 20:04 (four years ago) link
yes that was normal even 30 years ago
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 4 October 2019 20:11 (four years ago) link
meanwhile:
Economist/YouGov Poll:should House try to impeach Trump?50% yes39% noif House impeaches, should Senate remove Trump from office?51% yes39% no— John Harwood (@JohnJHarwood) October 4, 2019
NEW: House Democrats seek Ukraine-related documents from VP Pence as part of impeachment inquiry. - @AlexNBCNews pic.twitter.com/crDfEw7TZn— NBC News (@NBCNews) October 4, 2019
― It is my great honor to post on this messageboard! (Karl Malone), Friday, 4 October 2019 20:19 (four years ago) link
FYI, I have like 6 Gmail addresses and one of them is signed up for Trump emails (as "Bob Dobalina"). Here's the one I got today:
Bob,I need your help.I’m working hard to make sure the Democrats and their media lapdogs hold Quid Pro Joe accountable for his LIES and his son’s corrupt actions.But, the FAKE NEWS MEDIA refuses to tell the truth about Sleepy Joe’s dirty past.It’s time to take charge. If the FAKE NEWS media won’t report the truth, then WE WILL. My team just launched an ad to FIGHT BACK against their biased coverage. We need to raise $1,000,000 in the next 24 hours to FLOOD THE AIRWAVES with this ad, so we’re turning to our best supporters for help.Without your support, the Fake News will do everything in their power to censor this ad and prevent Americans from hearing the truth. Please contribute $5 in the NEXT 24 HOURS to our Official Trump Ad Blitz Fund to help our ad dominate the airwaves. >> CONTRIBUTE $20CONTRIBUTE $15 CONTRIBUTE $10 CONTRIBUTE $5CONTRIBUTE ANY AMOUNT We can’t let the Left turn the tables on us. They are trying to turn a Biden Scandal into a Trump Scandal by calling for my IMPEACHMENT.The American People deserve to know the TRUTH about Joe and Hunter Biden, and it’s up to Patriots like YOU to hold them accountable.Please contribute $20, $15, $10, or even $5 to our Official Trump Ad Blitz Fund to help us push this ad far and wide. Thank you and let’s FLOOD the airwaves.
I need your help.
I’m working hard to make sure the Democrats and their media lapdogs hold Quid Pro Joe accountable for his LIES and his son’s corrupt actions.
But, the FAKE NEWS MEDIA refuses to tell the truth about Sleepy Joe’s dirty past.
It’s time to take charge. If the FAKE NEWS media won’t report the truth, then WE WILL. My team just launched an ad to FIGHT BACK against their biased coverage. We need to raise $1,000,000 in the next 24 hours to FLOOD THE AIRWAVES with this ad, so we’re turning to our best supporters for help.
Without your support, the Fake News will do everything in their power to censor this ad and prevent Americans from hearing the truth. Please contribute $5 in the NEXT 24 HOURS to our Official Trump Ad Blitz Fund to help our ad dominate the airwaves. >> CONTRIBUTE $20
CONTRIBUTE $15 CONTRIBUTE $10 CONTRIBUTE $5
CONTRIBUTE ANY AMOUNT We can’t let the Left turn the tables on us. They are trying to turn a Biden Scandal into a Trump Scandal by calling for my IMPEACHMENT.
The American People deserve to know the TRUTH about Joe and Hunter Biden, and it’s up to Patriots like YOU to hold them accountable.
Please contribute $20, $15, $10, or even $5 to our Official Trump Ad Blitz Fund to help us push this ad far and wide. Thank you and let’s FLOOD the airwaves.
"Quid Pro Joe" and "Sleepy Joe" - two nicknames in two paragraphs! That's some brilliant politickin'!
― shared unit of analysis (unperson), Friday, 4 October 2019 20:20 (four years ago) link
Been a while since Trump used "hereby" in a tweet, he must not be taking this stuff that seriously.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 4 October 2019 20:22 (four years ago) link
They are trying to turn this thing I'm trying to turn into a Biden scandal back into a Trump one lol this fuckin guy
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Friday, 4 October 2019 20:32 (four years ago) link
can't wait til someone other than Biden gets the nomination
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Friday, 4 October 2019 20:33 (four years ago) link
lol at Bob Dobalina
It is of my opinion that the people are impeaching...
― A breezy pop-rock feel fairly typical of the mid-'80s (Dan Peterson), Friday, 4 October 2019 20:34 (four years ago) link
if i have a point (i might not) it's this: the chuds are not our misfortune
― Calpico Girlfriend (rushomancy), Friday, 4 October 2019 20:37 (four years ago) link
Breaking via NBC: Weeks before the whistleblower's complaint became public, the CIA's top lawyer made what she considered a criminal referral to the Justice Dept. about the whistleblower's allegations that Trump abused his office in pressuring Ukraine. https://t.co/bVMDEveD79— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) October 4, 2019
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Friday, 4 October 2019 20:40 (four years ago) link
amazing
― Dan S, Friday, 4 October 2019 21:08 (four years ago) link
#derpstate
― Instant Carmax (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, 4 October 2019 21:40 (four years ago) link
Rumors being reported of a second CIA whistleblower with even more extensive details than the first.
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 5 October 2019 01:36 (four years ago) link
not following this at all but just wanna vent that all the ppl on my twitter feed who would not stfu about how pelosi was too chicken to do impeachment are all completely silent now that impeachment is actually happening
― flopson, Saturday, 5 October 2019 01:57 (four years ago) link
Quel surprise
― Οὖτις, Saturday, 5 October 2019 02:04 (four years ago) link
i guess i should be happy that they have at least stfu
― flopson, Saturday, 5 October 2019 02:05 (four years ago) link
yup I’ve been enjoying that tbh
― Larry Elleison (rogermexico.), Saturday, 5 October 2019 02:07 (four years ago) link
Here we gohttps://thehill.com/policy/national-security/464480-second-intel-official-considering-filing-complaint-over-trump-report
― Οὖτις, Saturday, 5 October 2019 02:07 (four years ago) link
Andhttps://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/10/04/republican-sen-ron-johnson-just-did-trump-no-favors-ukraine/
― Οὖτις, Saturday, 5 October 2019 02:11 (four years ago) link
The 2nd whistleblower has information about Trump’s dealing with Ukraine, right? I want the Trump tax return whistleblowers to come forward and hit him where it hurts. His credulity as a successful billionaire.
― brain dead operatus (FlopsyDuck), Saturday, 5 October 2019 02:12 (four years ago) link
errr... credibility
― brain dead operatus (FlopsyDuck), Saturday, 5 October 2019 02:23 (four years ago) link
was hoping someone else would post this but since no one has... kinda lol but mostly sad?https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trumps-calls-with-foreign-leaders-have-long-worried-aides-leaving-some-genuinely-horrified/2019/10/04/537cc7a8-e602-11e9-a331-2df12d56a80b_story.html
― Larry Elleison (rogermexico.), Saturday, 5 October 2019 02:45 (four years ago) link
― flopson, Friday, October 4, 2019 8:57 PM (forty-nine minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
― Οὖτις, Friday, October 4, 2019 9:04 PM (forty-two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
― flopson, Friday, October 4, 2019 9:05 PM (forty-one minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
― Larry Elleison (rogermexico.), Friday, October 4, 2019 9:07 PM (forty minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
reporting live, as a person who stfu about it: i stfu about it because she finally did it because...she finally did it. not sure if i'm supposed to keep urging her to impeach, may consider raising it again
― It is my great honor to post on this messageboard! (Karl Malone), Saturday, 5 October 2019 02:48 (four years ago) link
dunno how much credit pelosi should get for lucking into an even more blatant set of reasons to impeach, it being the right thing to do now doesn't mean it was wrong to pursue it then
― Simon H., Saturday, 5 October 2019 02:49 (four years ago) link
she deserves a lot of credit for understanding the moment to do it
― Dan S, Saturday, 5 October 2019 02:52 (four years ago) link
Y'know, if (IF) any of this manages to stick and/or hurt Trump, one of the more bizarre ironies will be...
Wait. Let me work up to this. The story has already involved Nickelback and Romney as partly good guys, so it's going to take some doing to get the tone here exactly right.
As it stands today, the institution that is doing the most to insist on the rule of law and call attention to unwarranted abuse of power... is... the CI frickin A?
― Instant Carmax (Ye Mad Puffin), Saturday, 5 October 2019 02:53 (four years ago) link
the implication from most of those posters was she would never do it bc she didn’t have it in her was terrible couldn’t lead etc etc
― Larry Elleison (rogermexico.), Saturday, 5 October 2019 02:53 (four years ago) link
ditto xxxxp (Jesus Christ, all the fucking posts)
she had no choice
her previous "he wants us to impeach him, so we won't" was dopey even for a 'cover story'
nice to see Pelosi Crew is still intact, maybe you can help her marginalize the Squad when this is over
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 5 October 2019 02:54 (four years ago) link
xxp at least credit her with recognizing that those new charges that she 'lucked into' were of a different quality that could be more easily sold to the public as an abuse of power, allowing a more aggressive response.
― A is for (Aimless), Saturday, 5 October 2019 02:59 (four years ago) link
LOL
She followed the caucus, which is what she always does
― Οὖτις, Saturday, 5 October 2019 03:01 (four years ago) link
Events pushed a solid majority of the caucus behind impeachment, she took note of this and acted accordingly
― Οὖτις, Saturday, 5 October 2019 03:02 (four years ago) link
xxp sure
― Simon H., Saturday, 5 October 2019 03:02 (four years ago) link
agree with Οὖτις
― Dan S, Saturday, 5 October 2019 03:41 (four years ago) link