Which is the least racist country in the world?

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xxpost - Atlantis

Amon (eman), Friday, 10 June 2005 03:12 (nineteen years ago) link

or Antarctica (did someone say that upthread?)

Amon (eman), Friday, 10 June 2005 03:13 (nineteen years ago) link

Germany

I'm not convinced. My girlfriend lived there studying for a year in a fairly iberal small university city (Frieburg) and said the amount of casual asumptions made by locals about people purely from their appearance was shocking.

Without wanting to trivialise the debate, she said that enough people just stared at her for minutes just because she had ginger hair and wore a red coat!

Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Friday, 10 June 2005 09:01 (nineteen years ago) link

Belgium

Vlaams Blok abyone?

Vicious Cop Kills Gentle Fool (Dada), Friday, 10 June 2005 09:04 (nineteen years ago) link

I can't believe someone said Australia.

OK I gotta bite this. Oops, what prompts this comment? I know our refugee track record recently is poor, and I know our Aboriginal problem is terrible, but I like to think broadly speaking we're a reasonably tolerant nation.

After all we're based on immgration, and we dont have a slave history! OK, wow, now Im going to get shit for this comment I guess.

Trayce (trayce), Friday, 10 June 2005 10:23 (nineteen years ago) link

Er by "Aboriginal problem" I mean how whites regard the native population, not that they are a "problem" obviously yeesh. I have aboriginal family members.

Trayce (trayce), Friday, 10 June 2005 10:24 (nineteen years ago) link

I think most people outside Australia believe that, in the past perhaps, it was somewhat errrrrrrrrrrr problematic becoming an Australian citizen if you weren't white. Maybe we're wrong.

Vicious Cop Kills Gentle Fool (Dada), Friday, 10 June 2005 10:58 (nineteen years ago) link

sorry trayce, oz does have a bit of a pr problem there. rabbit proof fence!

N_RQ, Friday, 10 June 2005 11:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Australia had a whites-only immigration policy into the seventies, aboriginals didn't get the vote until 1967...

I'd say Australia is pretty racist once you get out of the middle class urban enclaves. What about the huge amount of anti-Indonesian outpouring right now on account the Corby case?

Jonathan Z. (Joanthan Z.), Friday, 10 June 2005 11:10 (nineteen years ago) link

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4074084.stm

Jonathan Z. (Joanthan Z.), Friday, 10 June 2005 11:13 (nineteen years ago) link

Yeah fair point, I like to think Aus is tolerant and multicultural when I compare it to the UK and US but the native population are really dealt a bad hand, and that Corby thing and how "middle Australia" percieves Indonesia is disgusting. That said, the media have a LOT to answer for in that regard.

Trayce (trayce), Friday, 10 June 2005 11:17 (nineteen years ago) link

Yeah, but the fact that the media can whip up a xenophobic storm so easily... I'm an Australian living in Europe, and when I go back to Australia sometimes I'm astonished by the totally blatant racism you come across once you step outside the inner city and the middle class suburbs. Although maybe people in Europe are no less racist, just a little bit more circumspect about it...

Jonathan Z. (Joanthan Z.), Friday, 10 June 2005 11:24 (nineteen years ago) link

I can only speak for myself when I say that when I think of countries that I don't consider particularly racist then Australia is not exactly at the forefront of my thoughts

Vicious Cop Kills Gentle Fool (Dada), Friday, 10 June 2005 11:24 (nineteen years ago) link

i was talking to a white american the other day. i mentioned that the pope's funeral took place while i was in poland, and in kracow, people were burning crosses as part of the mourning thing. i made some joke about how that didn't mean they were kkk, which didn't convince her, so i explained there just weren't very many black people in poland, there wasn't that dimension to it -- which made her think they were even *more* racist than the kkk. [i then explained the history of the european overseas empires.] i don't know if poland has a 'whites-only' immigration policy, but this did give me pause: there must be some correlation between total ignorance and racism, but was she right, were the poles being racist?

N_RQ, Friday, 10 June 2005 11:31 (nineteen years ago) link

Let's not get on to the subject of racism in Eastern Europe

Vicious Cop Kills Gentle Fool (Dada), Friday, 10 June 2005 11:36 (nineteen years ago) link

Er, has burning crosses a racist implication anywhere else than in the US? In Finland we have K markets, and the big K supermarkets are called KKK Markets. Is that racist?

Tuomas (Tuomas), Friday, 10 June 2005 11:37 (nineteen years ago) link

Belgium
Vlaams Blok abyone?

Very true, only it's called Vlaams Belang (roughly translated: Flemish Importance/Concern). The sad thing is, they are still winning votes. So much so that with the next elections, Filip DeWinter might be elected as mayor of Antwerp. :-(

nathalie's post modern sleaze fest (stevie nixed), Friday, 10 June 2005 11:40 (nineteen years ago) link

Toumas, I think that NRQ's friend would claim that it's a sign of racism, because if there were more black people around, those stores wouldn't be called that. Which is only true if every black person has the same attitude to those three letters as african-americans do.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Friday, 10 June 2005 11:51 (nineteen years ago) link

i was a bit on edge because she once said to me that 'cambridge is too white'; i felt a bit helpless really. like it was my/the british people/william pitt's fault. in my experience british racism is very shallow. people quite frequesntly *say* slightly embarrassing things, but i get a much worse sense of interracial antagonism in france.

N_RQ, Friday, 10 June 2005 11:55 (nineteen years ago) link

yeah trayce I mostly had white australians relationship with aboriginals in mind. something that amazed me was that not longer ago than the 60s, they were classified as part of the fauna (!) of the country. from what little i know, it's not close to being the *most* racist country, but also far from the least.

oops (Oops), Friday, 10 June 2005 15:05 (nineteen years ago) link

I was in Australia in 1997 and when I first went to Bondi beach I was staggered to see a large road sign with 'WOGS OUT' sprayed across it.

Teh HoBB (the pirate king), Friday, 10 June 2005 15:59 (nineteen years ago) link

Yeah, I don't think KKK iconography has any signifying play outside of North America. Especially considering that most of it is banal Anglophilic stuff lifted from Sir Walter Scott in the first place.

nabiscothingy, Friday, 10 June 2005 16:09 (nineteen years ago) link

KKK Nigeria: Be afraid! There's a cross burning on your lawn!
Babatunde Okoro: Wow, thanks guys, that's really impressive! Kids, come look at this!

nabiscothingy, Friday, 10 June 2005 16:12 (nineteen years ago) link

Well, a friend of mine recently spent time in Copenhagen, and she saw a gazillion billboard of a model in blackface.. it was the most prominent thing everywhere. She had nice things to say about Copenhagen, but let's just say that Denmark isn't the answer.

donut e-goon (donut), Friday, 10 June 2005 16:28 (nineteen years ago) link

my gut wants to say lichtenstein, but i don't know anything about it. anyone been to lichtenstein?

matlewis, Friday, 10 June 2005 16:33 (nineteen years ago) link

there is no answer. We all fucking hate our neighbors... or we're too isolated and afraid of what's across that big pool of water.

donut e-goon (donut), Friday, 10 June 2005 16:37 (nineteen years ago) link

yeah, the question i would ask is, "ok well what does a burning cross traditionally signify in poland?" was it some kind of protest against the papacy? or did a few million poles see "mississippi burning" and "like a prayer" and say to each other "yes, his holiness would totally love that shit"

g e o f f (gcannon), Friday, 10 June 2005 16:39 (nineteen years ago) link

ok this is going to sound totally ignorant but what abt uruguay? (i think i's uruguay... one of the 'guays) the whole country is bilingual spanish and guarani, the indigenous language. i think that's just cool.

g e o f f (gcannon), Friday, 10 June 2005 16:41 (nineteen years ago) link

The burning cross is a long-running Christian symbol, isn't it? This is what I mean about the rip-offs in KKK iconography. The flaming cross is Christian; it resurfaces in medievalist lore like Scott's; it gets picked up by the KKK as some proper old-school old-world Protestant-white-people imagery. It's pretty obvious, in terms of the Christian icons a person could dream up (especially given the flaming swords and such in the Bible); I imagine it has to have filtered out across Europe in a whole lot of other fashions, as well.

From what I know about Uruguay it's really hugely Iberian in makeup, compared to everything around it; It'd be a pleasant surprise to find that that's left it without racial animosity!

nabiscothingy, Friday, 10 June 2005 16:48 (nineteen years ago) link

when I first went to Bondi beach I was staggered to see a large road sign with 'WOGS OUT' sprayed across it.

TO prevent any UK misunderstanding there though, that refers to Italians and Greeks, not (as I understand) black or West Indian people. For what its worth. The term's been diluted into almost jocular use now by immigrants anyway, cf "Wogs out of Work" and "Wogorama" musicals/comedy shows of recent years (written and performed by Greek and Italian Australians).

Trayce (trayce), Saturday, 11 June 2005 02:55 (nineteen years ago) link

Australia's definitely out. Two words: Pauline Hanson. The response she got in my home town was downright creepy, to the point where my Mum was even trying to tell me that ole pinchy-face 'had a point'. Which is when you say "Mum, there's not an Asian within coo-ee of this fucking place, so how do you even KNOW that there's "too many"?" Many fights & slamming doors during those halcyon days. But as soon as I heard her talking, I knew she sounded just like every adult that i'd grown up hearing. I think it's partly to do with the isolation, especially in rural areas like where I grew up.

VegemiteGrrl (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 11 June 2005 03:38 (nineteen years ago) link

i've never heard about this thing w/ poles burning crosses. i presume that the cross-burners were older poles -- i.e., those less likely to be aware of the american connotations of such an act. perhaps i should ask relatives over there, though that will be a pretty odd conversation i think :-o

as for my grandmother (who was born over there), she definitely never saw any blacks until she was sent to tanzania (that was where the british sent some of the polish POWs who were released to their custody by the soviets when the soviets entered WWII on the allied side). there weren't exactly lots of black people in pre-WWII poland, you know. i don't know WHAT she thought of blacks -- african or african-american -- that conversation never came up.

Eisbär (llamasfur), Saturday, 11 June 2005 04:27 (nineteen years ago) link

were the poles being racist?

I'm not sure about the cross-burning thing, but I was in Poland when the pope died and just walking around I was shocked by the number of racist skinheads walking around (despite the fact that there were no coloured people to be seen anywhere). This was Poznan, and you can see a photo of one the the skins, wearing a "White Power Poland" t-shirt, here. More thoughts on the subject in the radio program I made there, Poznan Radio.

Momus (Momus), Saturday, 11 June 2005 05:58 (nineteen years ago) link

poland also has a rather nasty, hardcore old-school catholic radio station ("radio maria") that is rather infamous for its anti-semitism and general europhobia. i believe that lech walesa's former parish priest-cum-advisor had a hand in the station. at any rate, it's a nasty bit of business.

i'm also amazed that the "white power" thing has had any traction in slavic nations (not just poland, but also the czech republic and russia), given hitler's well-known views of the slavs and the general brutality of the WWII years not to mention the often-bigoted attitudes that modern-day germans have about eastern europeans.

Eisbär (llamasfur), Saturday, 11 June 2005 06:13 (nineteen years ago) link

despite the fact that there were no coloured people to be seen anywhere

Momus!!! You said the C word!

Gatinha (rwillmsen), Saturday, 11 June 2005 09:30 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm not sure about the cross-burning thing, but I was in Poland when the pope died and just walking around I was shocked by the number of racist skinheads walking around (despite the fact that there were no coloured people to be seen anywhere). This was Poznan, and you can see a photo of one the the skins, wearing a "White Power Poland" t-shirt, here. More thoughts on the subject in the radio program I made there, Poznan Radio.

-- Momus (nic...), June 11th, 2005.

no shit! i was in kracow, and there were, now i think of it, plenty of ominously shaven-headed guys wandering around at one point. it wasn't totally clear what the deal was, though, cos they all had football paraphernalia, and i didn't want to leap to 'east europeans = racist' conclusions. i can't read polish either. but i guess my original point was: my american cousin thought poles were racist because there are no/very few black people in poland. which might be bullshit, otoh, might not be; after all, there are very few jews in poland (?10,000?) and the record on anti-semitism isn't pretty.

Momus!!! You said the C word!

not the preferred nomenclature!

N_RQ, Saturday, 11 June 2005 16:55 (nineteen years ago) link

I've always felt that Eastern Europe is full of racists. Fucking Slavs!

Lovelace (Lovelace), Saturday, 11 June 2005 21:22 (nineteen years ago) link

..with all the fucking skinhead jack asses in Australia?

Tibet is the winner.

kiki ramone, Sunday, 12 June 2005 01:15 (nineteen years ago) link

Yeah, those Tibetans sure love the Chinese.

walter kranz (walterkranz), Sunday, 12 June 2005 07:05 (nineteen years ago) link

my gut wants to say li[b]e[/b]chtenstein, but i don't know anything about it. anyone been to liechtenstein?

yeah been there. The impression I got was that there were only tourists.

Ludo (Ludo), Sunday, 12 June 2005 09:41 (nineteen years ago) link

Look at the crap that's going on with asylum seekers in Ireland recently.

More an administrative probelem than a social one, was my impression. And the figures from NationMaster seem to back this up. As does the recent article in Time

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 22 June 2005 12:12 (nineteen years ago) link

ten months pass...
The Spirit Country, where the formless spirit resides before its embodiment and growth. Where color is of no importance, nor habits culture, or riches and status. Just the soul and its desire to grow.

Bodie, Sunday, 23 April 2006 23:55 (eighteen years ago) link

How do you wank if you're a soul?

Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 24 April 2006 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

I met one horribly racist man, in the czech republic

RJG (RJG), Monday, 24 April 2006 00:37 (eighteen years ago) link

So how is lack of racism ranked?

I'd say Iceland is the least racist country I've been to because I've never heard anything bad or stereotypical said about any other race in the country. Then again, 99.5% of Icelandic residents are, well, Icelandic or Scandinavian..(actually, many Icelanders move to the other three Scandinavian countries because Iceland is too conservative for them.), so do they get marked down for being sheltered or being very neutral about it all?

(Point being: "which is the least racist country in the world?" is a ridiculous question to ask...)

Also the "least racist" country could end up being the "most homo-bigoted" country as well, or the most misogynist, or the least. What's the context of the measuring stick in the first place? Thread length? (Hi! :D)

DOQQUN (donut), Monday, 24 April 2006 01:07 (eighteen years ago) link

nobody said america?

DEEDS NOT WORDS (vahid), Monday, 24 April 2006 05:40 (eighteen years ago) link

118 messages and nobody said america?

DEEDS NOT WORDS (vahid), Monday, 24 April 2006 05:40 (eighteen years ago) link

america was proffered at the very top of the thread. it just wasn't taken as a given that that was the right answer, which is ok with me. i mean, america is my answer, but i don't mind people thinking otherwise. they've got plenty of reason to. the cabbie who drove us to the airport when we left manchester told us, "you know what i like about america? you really knew how to handle those blacks!"

so, i mean, america means a lot of different things depending on who's looking at us.

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Monday, 24 April 2006 06:13 (eighteen years ago) link

America: good at handling the blacks. Not so much the arabs. Though obviously everything that happens there gets a lot more coverage.

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Monday, 24 April 2006 06:31 (eighteen years ago) link


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