I guess if you avoid television commercials, trailers played before other movies, commercials using the characters to sell other products, places that play music from Black Panther, sketch comedy like SNL that references the movies, advertisements on the street, board game stores that double as comic book stores that are playing the movies in-store as you're shopping, costumed children and adults at halloween...
I guess it's all avoidable
― mh, Thursday, 24 October 2019 19:36 (four years ago) link
wins otm, i've enjoyed a fair number of marvel films but as a set, they're decent big-screen TV serialization but not half so special as they're supposed to be. so i derive no enjoyment from the "love Marvel or hate 'em, you gotta admit... they pulled it off!" cheerleading. they pulled off... putting out a bunch of movies? that are mostly kinda the same except for some windowdressing sufficient only to convince fanboys who have never seen a paranoid espionage thriller or a romantic comedy that these genres are actually fully embodied herein? and they needed like twenty of them in order to get me to tear up at the end of the last one? most movies can manage that in one movie if they're trying to.like even the much-ballyhooed storyline/tone/phase coordination isn't much to write home about. to name just one example, the Vision is massively built up Age of Ultron as an important new character, then never does anything besides hang around (and crippling Rhodes, which has no impact on anything), before dying in Infinity War... surely if these were the popcorn masterpieces they're supposed to be, with expertly staged "fuck yeah!" and "oh no!" moments, he would have at least the rudiments of an arc, a setup, a payoff....? i've bitched before about the characters' inability to remember anything that happened in previous movies, let alone have it inform their choices.... etc etc.to be clear I adored marvel comics throughout my teens and at some other junctures later on - my beef is not with the existence of movies about superheroes!
― weird ilx but sb (Doctor Casino), Thursday, 24 October 2019 19:36 (four years ago) link
There are plenty of culturally omnipresent things that I somehow manage to avoid (see: professional sports as a whole). I don't feel like blaming the siren song of the zeitgeist quite explains away my confusion.
― Go-Gurt Ops (Old Lunch), Thursday, 24 October 2019 19:36 (four years ago) link
Superhero action, comic: three pages, two minutes of reading time topsSuperhero action, MCU: thirty minutes, possibly seizure inducing
― Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Thursday, 24 October 2019 19:38 (four years ago) link
Halloween's become kinda fun tho.
"Who are you?"(silence)"He's Einherjar #4."(silence)"Get the fuck off my porch, kid."
― Pauline Male (Eric H.), Thursday, 24 October 2019 19:39 (four years ago) link
xxp I was gonna say -- avoiding most the things listed by mh (with minimal effort) is actually pretty easy
― drunk on hot toddies (morrisp), Thursday, 24 October 2019 19:39 (four years ago) link
Actively avoiding something is an even more annoying interaction.
― Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Thursday, 24 October 2019 19:41 (four years ago) link
Remove Bookmark from this Thread
― When I am afraid, I put my toast in you (Neanderthal), Thursday, 24 October 2019 19:42 (four years ago) link
yep, esp when you don't have cable and have lost interest in the popgeist. xxp
I remember Christopher Reeve getting good reviews for the first Superman in '78 (Kael said he was the best reason to see it) and him pooh-poohing awards talk in an interview: "You don't get an Oscar for playing Superman."
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 24 October 2019 19:42 (four years ago) link
If I didn't read the trades (and I guess Twitter), I would probably just see the billboards and that's it
― drunk on hot toddies (morrisp), Thursday, 24 October 2019 19:42 (four years ago) link
lol Eric
― mh, Thursday, 24 October 2019 19:43 (four years ago) link
reeve actually should have won awards for that performance though, it's outstanding (and a reminder of many things unfortunately lacking in a lot of these recent movies)
― weird ilx but sb (Doctor Casino), Thursday, 24 October 2019 19:54 (four years ago) link
WinnerRichard Dreyfuss, The Goodbye Girl
NomineesWoody Allen, Annie HallRichard Burton, EquusMarcello Mastroianni, A Special DayJohn Travolta, Saturday Night Fever
― now let's play big lunch take little lunch (sic), Thursday, 24 October 2019 20:02 (four years ago) link
only seen Annie and Fever but I'd give it to Travolta over Reeve. Those assholes almost broke his pussy finger!
― now let's play big lunch take little lunch (sic), Thursday, 24 October 2019 20:04 (four years ago) link
Wrong year.
WinnerJon Voight, Coming Home
NomineesWarren Beatty, Heaven Can WaitGary Busey, The Buddy Holly StoryRobert De Niro, The Deer HunterLaurence Olivier, The Boys from Brazil
― Pauline Male (Eric H.), Thursday, 24 October 2019 20:06 (four years ago) link
Ah, give it to Travolta anyway. He worked a long time on his hair!
― now let's play big lunch take little lunch (sic), Thursday, 24 October 2019 20:38 (four years ago) link
re: ease of avoiding Disney/Marvel content
If this doesn’t make your blood boil... https://t.co/A4WERjtuX1 pic.twitter.com/yRMWq5whHG— Vikram Murthi (@fauxbeatpoet) October 24, 2019
― Simon H., Thursday, 24 October 2019 20:50 (four years ago) link
I mean they're just going to wind up burning themselves with that shit ultimately, particularly as they continue to lean heavier on regurgitation of their own supply. Cut to five years from now as tumbleweeds drift through a multiplex showing the live-action remake of Chicken Little on fifteen screens.
― Go-Gurt Ops (Old Lunch), Thursday, 24 October 2019 21:11 (four years ago) link
eh, take it to the Star Wars thread
― Larry Elleison (rogermexico.), Thursday, 24 October 2019 21:18 (four years ago) link
I mean they're just going to wind up burning themselves with that shit ultimately, particularly as they continue to lean heavier on regurgitation of their own supply. Cut to five years from now as tumbleweeds drift through a multiplex
Independent theaters will have been killed by then.
― now let's play big lunch take little lunch (sic), Thursday, 24 October 2019 21:23 (four years ago) link
re: engaging w/the material, i myself enjoy the films despite my issues with them but the manner in which they've taken over the movie culture (and to a lesser extent, Star Wars films have done the same thing and i guess maybe on second thought we should count our blessings that Solo was a failure and the second of the new trilogy didn't "do well" i.e. didn't make five billion dollars) is a bummer. would i have a problem w/them if i didn't feel like they were a negative on what films are getting made? or at least part of a larger problem in terms of moviemaking? not really. my aesthetic concerns would remain the same but as movies they're not any more offensive than your average blockbusters of yore.
I also don't think Scorsese is wrong (he says much the same thing Meirelles says, just a bit more pointedly and again i think it's just because he likes to talk and will keep going if you give him an opening, and i think he did it out of love). i guess i don't find them particularly moving or thought-provoking. what they succeed at is they are exceptionally made products and sleek and nice to look at and they're occasionally very, very well cast, especially Hemsworth. (again, Ragnarok is a really excellent film, Marvel or no. It manages to stand alone too, which is to its credit. It helps to see the earlier films but it's one where you can maybe get away with just seeing this one).
― omar little, Thursday, 24 October 2019 21:31 (four years ago) link
he says much the same thing Meirelles says, just a bit more pointedly
This just isn't true!
― drunk on hot toddies (morrisp), Thursday, 24 October 2019 21:43 (four years ago) link
oh i think it is i think FM was being just a bit diplomatic, but it's fine really, the MCU has weathered a lot of storms and while i feel bad that noted Scorsese collaborator Jon Favreau feels not-great about the comments, i also think w/the current climate in the film industry ol Marty can sigh a bit over the films' influence.
anyway i do actually have ENDGAME on hold at the library, looking forward to how events wrap up!
― omar little, Thursday, 24 October 2019 22:01 (four years ago) link
He didn't sigh a bit over their influence, he said "that's not cinema"!
― drunk on hot toddies (morrisp), Thursday, 24 October 2019 22:03 (four years ago) link
endgame’s the only one i’ve seenthere were two good jokes iirc and hulk’s mouth was weird
― Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 24 October 2019 22:05 (four years ago) link
Sighing a bit is a good way to describe it. He didn't declare war or call the creators or consumers immoral for doing their thing. He was just "jeez...ugh...yknow?"
― Galangal Baker (WmC), Thursday, 24 October 2019 22:07 (four years ago) link
i mean by his definition they're not cinema and i'm not going to strictly disagree but again that's okay, the MCU will survive and some people including myself find enjoyment in them.
― omar little, Thursday, 24 October 2019 22:07 (four years ago) link
Meanwhile (as they say in comics) — looks like Hailee Steinfeld’s role in an Apple series may be holding up her acceptance of the Kate Bishop part: https://variety.com/2019/tv/news/hailee-steinfeld-interview-hawkeye-disney-plus-dickinson-apple-1203378527/
― drunk on hot toddies (morrisp), Friday, 25 October 2019 03:14 (four years ago) link
what if — hear me out — this take is exactly backwards, and it's actually the triumphal simplicity of this stuff that's helped convert a subset of admirers into blinkered anti-social wannabe crusaders who have in fact made the world demonstrably more unsettling pic.twitter.com/TZW0ZjmehZ— Nitsuh Abebe (@ntabebe) October 24, 2019
― j., Friday, 25 October 2019 04:49 (four years ago) link
damn idk who nabisco’s quoting there but that is a colossally stupid take
― Larry Elleison (rogermexico.), Friday, 25 October 2019 04:55 (four years ago) link
https://media.giphy.com/media/iGMTtx1VmHmZFhwDxX/giphy.gif
― difficult listening hour, Friday, 25 October 2019 05:12 (four years ago) link
based on this argument, there should have been lines around the block for Dark Phoenix. Explain.
― Larry Elleison (rogermexico.), Friday, 25 October 2019 05:34 (four years ago) link
Again, when you adopt a broad brush approach to any subject, you can generalize to the point where nothing you say is entirely untrue but neither is it especially meaningful. Like, in what way has popular entertainment (children's or otherwise) become ever more infantilizing, exactly? Is there a strain of hyper-erudite pop culture from the past several decades that I somehow failed to notice? What specific works are under discussion here? Because just referring to eg 'cartoons and comics' is like...you might as well issue sweeping proclamations about 'music'.
They both have a point but either take is great, tbh (the rare not-quite-OTM!). The simplicity of the stuff nabisco speaks of (again, the simplicity of what, precisely) isn't at issue as much as the erosion of critical distance among segments of the audience. This is just the pearl-clutching discussion of The Joker all over again, though. If people are transformed in some measurable way by, say, a superhero movie, that shit doesn't happen in a vacuum and it's not because the movie has some special transmogrifying power which thwarts all attempts at resistance.
― Go-Gurt Ops (Old Lunch), Friday, 25 October 2019 12:04 (four years ago) link
If anything, these types of entertainment seem to have the most deleterious effect upon those who attempt to criticize them.
― Go-Gurt Ops (Old Lunch), Friday, 25 October 2019 12:08 (four years ago) link
Big props to Doc C upthread, though, who actually made the effort to hone in on specific aspects of the MCU and reckon with it on its own terms with some legit + valid criticism. I don't get why it's so hard for so many other people to do likewise.
― Go-Gurt Ops (Old Lunch), Friday, 25 October 2019 12:14 (four years ago) link
Oh cool, the argument has reached batshit right wing cartoons phase:
pic.twitter.com/jQSP8TFaZ9— John Campea (@johncampea) October 24, 2019
― Pauline Male (Eric H.), Friday, 25 October 2019 12:18 (four years ago) link
That’s no way to talk about the mcu
― YouGov to see it (wins), Friday, 25 October 2019 12:20 (four years ago) link
So batshit reactions from the fringes of an internet discussion are still reliably batshit. Good to know that there are still some things you can count on in this crazy world!
― Go-Gurt Ops (Old Lunch), Friday, 25 October 2019 12:49 (four years ago) link
"on its own terms" is a loaded phrase though, OL. it seems like you're responding to dr C's knowledge of comics - which for you lends weight to his criticism of the cinematic MCU - i.e. he's criticizing these movies on their "own terms". but i don't know anything about the comics. neither do my kids. they, and i, experience them primarily as movies (despite all the other happy meal tie-ins or whatever). "the movies" seems like a pretty valid frame of reference for somebody like me, or even a movie director, to use. anyway I'm kind of surprised your defending them so hard - i feel like you're usually pretty hard to please when it comes to this stuff!
― Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Friday, 25 October 2019 13:11 (four years ago) link
i'm probably just still sore from when you comprehensively dismantled every reason i thought i had for loving Solo
― Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Friday, 25 October 2019 13:16 (four years ago) link
to be clear my beefs with the Marvel movies are mostly to do with them sometimes being lame and forgettable movies, followed by them often being cryptofascist. tho maybe my knowledge of the comics reminds me of how truly fantastic they could potentially be. i also loathed solo, but equally as a movie and as a work of star wars product.
― weird ilx but sb (Doctor Casino), Friday, 25 October 2019 13:26 (four years ago) link
xp misread that as "Salo" and was about to jump in
― Pauline Male (Eric H.), Friday, 25 October 2019 13:27 (four years ago) link
I'm responding more to Dr. C's willingness to criticize elements of the films themselves in terms of what they're actually trying to achieve. The basis of his critique about the role of Vision, for instance, is all there on the screen and doesn't require any knowledge of the comics themselves.
I don't feel like I'm defending the movies themselves as hard as I'm challenging nebulous criticisms of 'the MCU' or 'superhero movies' built around abstract notions of what these movies are or what they supposedly represent. I think they're great fun but I don't in any way think they're above criticism! I just personally value when the critic is able to signal that they've experienced the object of inquiry with their actual sense apparatus.
― Go-Gurt Ops (Old Lunch), Friday, 25 October 2019 13:33 (four years ago) link
(Which is not to say that I exactly consider 'oooh, it hurt my ears/eyes!' the apex of criticism.)
― Go-Gurt Ops (Old Lunch), Friday, 25 October 2019 13:35 (four years ago) link
Dr Casino’s post literally started with “wins otm”, so presumably at least some of my criticisms would have been “legit + valid” if I’d only taken care to precede them with “I enjoy these films but”
― YouGov to see it (wins), Friday, 25 October 2019 13:50 (four years ago) link
I'm not calling out anyone in particular itt, fwiw. There just seems to be a rising tide of critics (and defenders!) who are engaging on more of a notional level without ever really getting into the weeds.
― Go-Gurt Ops (Old Lunch), Friday, 25 October 2019 13:55 (four years ago) link
Solo was good! It had a lot in common with Ragnarok, actually... right down to the Hulk/Chewie meet-cute.
― drunk on hot toddies (morrisp), Friday, 25 October 2019 13:57 (four years ago) link
Like okay here: I was really put out by the most recent Spider-Man film's unwillingness to deal seriously with the ramifications of such a radically-altered post-Endgame world. In more skilled hands, the notion of half the population suddenly finding themselves transported years into their own future would be a rich sci-fi vein to tap, so the 'weird! (*shrug*)' treatment of that scenario in Far From Home was kind of a wet fart, imo.
― Go-Gurt Ops (Old Lunch), Friday, 25 October 2019 14:02 (four years ago) link
whenever i say “i heard it’s not very good” about anything now my kids pipe up in chorus: “that’s what you said about Solo!!”
― Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Friday, 25 October 2019 14:03 (four years ago) link
the spider-man movies aren’t SF iirc - wishing they were is sort of unreasonable
― Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Friday, 25 October 2019 14:05 (four years ago) link