as a queer person who supports sanders this thread is not really helping me feel like i have a place among the rest of his supporters or that my priorities and concerns wouldn't be ridiculed by them so i'm gonna stop checking this thread
― american bradass (BradNelson), Friday, 24 January 2020 16:44 (four years ago) link
It'd be great if everyone could be revolutionary, an advocate, or at the very least an ally, but I think believing in causes that help float all boats -- while maintaining a strong network of actual allies who are ensuring that some aren't left behind -- has a net positive effect
― babu frik fan account (mh), Friday, 24 January 2020 16:45 (four years ago) link
^ not sure how far back we’re assessing records, but if he’s better than Biden, well I got bad news about Clinton
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Friday, 24 January 2020 16:47 (four years ago) link
tbh I suspected this thread would move in this direction eventually, especially if Sanders wins Iowa, NH, etc.
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 24 January 2020 16:47 (four years ago) link
the rogan listeners of the world have an overlap with that kind of culturally conservative viewpoint
I think this is only sorta true...I think his audience is more malleable than that, I think its a very reachable audience (precisely why its been so coveted by all the candidates). You don't go on there to pander to an imagined viewpoint/audience - you go on there to be given 2-3 hours to say what you're about, and there's nowhere else of any size you can really do that.
His comments are filled with people changing their minds, on all kinds of things. There's not many outlets for reaching people direct and changing minds in this way
― anvil, Friday, 24 January 2020 16:51 (four years ago) link
I think also a lot of low information people out there, views not solidified, jumbled up, these are some of the most reachable people out there
― anvil, Friday, 24 January 2020 16:52 (four years ago) link
Hillary literally said some TERF shit like a month ago iirc
― bold caucasian eroticism (Simon H.), Friday, 24 January 2020 16:53 (four years ago) link
that's cool, i was gonna vote for hillary/joe biden but i guess i've changed my mind
y'all are being assholes
― american bradass (BradNelson), Friday, 24 January 2020 16:54 (four years ago) link
Great! Go find out.
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Friday, 24 January 2020 16:57 (four years ago) link
Sanders and Warren also both oppose the use of conscience laws or religious objections in things like providing health care or other services to trans and nb people.
― Pete Swine Cave (Eliza D.), Friday, 24 January 2020 16:59 (four years ago) link
Which I think leads to real questions about persuasiveness, strong arguments, and reaching people - especially in a media landscape setup to achieve the opposite of that. Even assuming his audience does lean right, do we only want them to hear right wing nonsense? Or do we want them to hear alternatives? They're told leftists and progressives are terrible people, and then when they hear one at length the comments are full of "oh this isn't what I was told they were!"
This is like knocking on a million doors
― anvil, Friday, 24 January 2020 16:59 (four years ago) link
thank you Eliza
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Friday, 24 January 2020 17:00 (four years ago) link
Cool posts.
― Swilling Ambergris, Esq. (silby), Friday, 24 January 2020 17:04 (four years ago) link
remember when Bernie went on Fox? What if say, Neil Cavuto, endorses him?
one thing I think we can all agee on is we all want the Transphobe-in-Chief bounced
― Suggest Banshee (Hadrian VIII), Friday, 24 January 2020 17:04 (four years ago) link
If "bounced" is a synonym for something that would get me an interview with the Secret Service, yes.
― Pete Swine Cave (Eliza D.), Friday, 24 January 2020 17:10 (four years ago) link
I should qualify when I said "socially conservative" I don't mean actively campaigning against social progress. While some people default to inherent hostility when they encounter experiences foreign to their own, at their most benign it's just this discomfort that's rooted in insecurity.
Some who are socially conservative by the harsher definition, when they hear someone who has experienced real adversity explain how they've been harmed, will attempt to argue or diminish their points. There are many who, when they actually hear someone make the same points in a venue that's familiar -- whether it's their home turf, or listening to a podcast they can relate to -- are open in a way they may not be for people they perceive as strangers. It's that ambivalent conservativeness that exists across the political spectrum.
― babu frik fan account (mh), Friday, 24 January 2020 17:12 (four years ago) link
fwiw I'd rather Bernie / his people hadn't felt the need to tweet about it from the official account
― bold caucasian eroticism (Simon H.), Friday, 24 January 2020 17:15 (four years ago) link
remember when Bernie went on Fox? What if say, Neil Cavuto, endorses him?one thing I think we can all agee on is we all want the Transphobe-in-Chief bounced
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Friday, 24 January 2020 17:16 (four years ago) link
Yeah, that was clearly a mistake.
― pomenitul, Friday, 24 January 2020 17:18 (four years ago) link
I genuinely didn’t understand the Joe Rogan debate. He sucks but he’s not the first Bernie Sanders supporter that sucks. This isn’t new. I like Bernie Sanders despite despising his base.
― Allen (etaeoe), Friday, 24 January 2020 17:34 (four years ago) link
Joe Rogan has a huge audience/platform; he is not equivalent to some random "supporter" or "the base"
― rob, Friday, 24 January 2020 17:37 (four years ago) link
also if you really want to show up at this point and keep the debate going, then using a vague pejorative like "sucks" strongly reinforces the perception that the Bernie supporters itt do not take trans rights or anti-trans rhetoric seriously
― rob, Friday, 24 January 2020 17:39 (four years ago) link
And he's a case where all of a sudden, people who have been saying since the last election that progressives (and Sanders's base particularly) shouldn't have to make deals with centrists and "the libs" are saying, "Look, you have to let these people into the tent." (Not saying anyone on this thread necessarily, but on Twitter for sure.) And when marginalized people who are hurt by this particular endorsement are objecting, they're being told to shut up and get in line. (Again, not here.)
― Pete Swine Cave (Eliza D.), Friday, 24 January 2020 17:40 (four years ago) link
Ah. I should clarify that I have no idea who he is other than the guy from Fear Factor that now has a podcast.
― Allen (etaeoe), Friday, 24 January 2020 17:42 (four years ago) link
I guess I was trying to make the point that I don’t think Bernie Sanders is going to adopt Joe Rogan’s views on anything.
― Allen (etaeoe), Friday, 24 January 2020 17:44 (four years ago) link
he's the guy from news radio who has standup specials called like "triggered!" and has the biggest podcast in the world
― bidenfan69420 (jim in vancouver), Friday, 24 January 2020 17:44 (four years ago) link
― Allen (etaeoe), Friday, January 24, 2020 10:44 AM (twenty-six seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink
you're a goddamn genius
― american bradass (BradNelson), Friday, 24 January 2020 17:45 (four years ago) link
Even as a fan of News Radio I think I’m going to skip “Triggered!” 😆
I do know that he’s popular. In fact, I’m pretty sure I knew he had a podcast because he’s always on the top of the podcast charts on iTunes. But so is Bill Simmons and Bill Simmons isn’t coming up in my life either. I guess I just don’t see this as comparable to a person that I saw compare this to David Duke and Trump. Nevertheless I’m not trans and have no relationship with trans activists so I’ll 100% defer on whether judging this is harmful.
― Allen (etaeoe), Friday, 24 January 2020 17:48 (four years ago) link
you're a goddamn genius― american bradass (BradNelson), Friday, January 24, 2020 12:45 PM (three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
― american bradass (BradNelson), Friday, January 24, 2020 12:45 PM (three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
I know and I appreciate that I’m not the most sophisticated person here, especially about politics, but isn’t this the crux of the debate?
― Allen (etaeoe), Friday, 24 January 2020 17:50 (four years ago) link
it is not
― rob, Friday, 24 January 2020 17:50 (four years ago) link
I’m not trying to be antagonistic. I always find these threads helpful. Even when they are contentious. They have genuinely changed my world view over the past decade (or two).
― Allen (etaeoe), Friday, 24 January 2020 17:51 (four years ago) link
ok tbc no one is genuinely worried that Rogan will influence Sanders' views
― rob, Friday, 24 January 2020 17:52 (four years ago) link
And he's a case where all of a sudden, people who have been saying since the last election that progressives (and Sanders's base particularly) shouldn't have to make deals with centrists and "the libs" are saying, "Look, you have to let these people into the tent.
These are different ideas, though. Is anyone arguing that you need to cede ground on LGBTQ issues to whatever percentage of Rogan's fanbase are irredeemable CHUDs?
― Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Friday, 24 January 2020 17:55 (four years ago) link
Yeah, that was clearly a mistake
I mean, it's not good but it's not a mistake - it will have been a prerequisite for the interview in the first place - Joe Rogan likes new fans too!
― Andrew Farrell, Friday, 24 January 2020 17:55 (four years ago) link
If the fact that someone reprehensible announces their support for a candidate disqualifies that candidate from the support of progressives, then the neo-Nazis would be politically smart to draw up a list of the candidates they hate most and assign various of their hateful assholes to go on social media and loudly support those candidates, thereby losing each of them tons of votes among conscientious progressives.
― A is for (Aimless), Friday, 24 January 2020 17:56 (four years ago) link
I listened for a while when I was driving 5 hours a day, in the period when it was mostly MMA guys and health and wellness grifters. Rogan is seemingly one of the dumbest, most credulous people on Earth, he will believe anything the person in front of him says with authority - but he's not actively evil. He's precisely the kind of person you can swing by breaking him out of his bro bubble where people repeat the Ben Shapiro attack helicopter jokes.
― Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Friday, 24 January 2020 18:00 (four years ago) link
There's a parallel to Bill Maher, who thinks he's a genius and is far more mean-spirited whereas Rogan seems to accept that he's a dumbass.
― Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Friday, 24 January 2020 18:02 (four years ago) link
It is not inconceivable that, given loud enough voices, an M4A bill would be constructed that would not cover gender-affirming surgeries.
― Pete Swine Cave (Eliza D.), Friday, 24 January 2020 18:10 (four years ago) link
Who's suggesting that's an acceptable compromise to get the Rogan Vote and is there any indication a Sanders Presidency would follow that path?
― Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Friday, 24 January 2020 18:15 (four years ago) link
If anyone is wondering if I'm being an idiot, I am being an idiot - I'd thought that the Bernie interview was more recent and that it was the cause of this.
― Andrew Farrell, Friday, 24 January 2020 18:31 (four years ago) link
the "endorsement" seems to have been made to Bari Weiss's face, which is perhaps the only good thing about it
― symsymsym, Friday, 24 January 2020 18:37 (four years ago) link
― symsymsym, Friday, January 24, 2020 10:37 AM (thirty-five seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink
oh that's hilarious
― bidenfan69420 (jim in vancouver), Friday, 24 January 2020 18:38 (four years ago) link
rogan sucks ass and bernie's camp emphasizing the endorsement is lame. i am a little bummed about it.
― ingredience (map), Friday, 24 January 2020 18:43 (four years ago) link
^^ best take yet imo
― The Squalls Of Hate (sleeve), Friday, 24 January 2020 18:51 (four years ago) link
i really don't know this Rogan guy, but Maher seems approximately as vile and I believe he supported Sanders in the '16 primaries
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Friday, 24 January 2020 18:53 (four years ago) link
Rogan is seemingly one of the dumbest, most credulous people on Earth, he will believe anything the person in front of him says with authority
100%. Rogan is as dumb as a rock, pervesely this can make him a good interviewer. Though on occasion some right wing balloon (Dave Rubin, Candace Owens) is exposed for being too dumb eveb for Rogan. He's kind of inadvertently Socratic
― anvil, Friday, 24 January 2020 18:53 (four years ago) link
I think AOC is supposed to be going on later this year also fwiw
― anvil, Friday, 24 January 2020 18:55 (four years ago) link
Wonder if he would have ContraPoints on
― anvil, Friday, 24 January 2020 19:22 (four years ago) link
I'm pretty sure he would (assuming her metrics/reach are sufficient), it's more about whether she would want to put up with any more controversy
― bold caucasian eroticism (Simon H.), Friday, 24 January 2020 19:25 (four years ago) link
She has run into her own troubles of late true.
― anvil, Friday, 24 January 2020 19:28 (four years ago) link