btw drunk.
― ian, Wednesday, 24 June 2009 05:24 (fourteen years ago) link
O'Brien - The Things They CarriedThompson - The Killer Inside MeGatsbyMcMurtry - The Last Picture ShowA Connecticut Yankee In King Arthur's Court
― My vagina has a dress code. (milo z), Wednesday, 24 June 2009 05:31 (fourteen years ago) link
i think the collector works better because it engages the reader in self-examination but in a non-gimmicky non-"whos the real sadist" way that i kind of remember the magus working.
with empathy - miranada kind of sucks shes spoiled and foolish and contemptuous and i think the book plays that against the reader she can be hard to empathize w/ because shes so relatable. and clegg is so obv reprehensible i always felt guiltly about loathing him like it was a smallness of spirit or something? but then, the end.
― Lamp, Wednesday, 24 June 2009 05:34 (fourteen years ago) link
hmm.
DFW, Infinite JestYukio Mishima, The Sea of Fertility TetralogyIan McEwan, The Child in TimeFanny Howe, Radical LoveVirginia Woolf, The WavesCharlotte Bronte, Jane EyreHollinghurst, The Line of BeautyGass, In the Heart of the Heart of the CountryChu T'Ien-Wen, Notes of a Desolate ManLovecraft, At the Mountains of Madness
I read a lot more poetry...but these are my favorites. I admire personal style in fiction more than I appreciate story-craft, or whatever.
Think 2666 would be on here, but I have a few hundred pages left.
― the blowhard is the blowhard (the table is the table), Wednesday, 24 June 2009 05:35 (fourteen years ago) link
i should read the collector. i liked the magus and a maggot, but felt sort of let down by the ending of each.
― us_odd_bunny_lady (tipsy mothra), Wednesday, 24 June 2009 05:36 (fourteen years ago) link
Not personal style.
Distinct writing voice, or non-voice.
― the blowhard is the blowhard (the table is the table), Wednesday, 24 June 2009 05:36 (fourteen years ago) link
There is nothing wrong with reviling Clegg--he's an absolutely pathetic, sad example of a control freak somehow given the means to put his fixation into action.
― ian, Wednesday, 24 June 2009 05:40 (fourteen years ago) link
ian -- based on this thread i printed out and read "the white people." i liked it. now i have to go and read some things to puzzle it out.
― us_odd_bunny_lady (tipsy mothra), Wednesday, 24 June 2009 05:45 (fourteen years ago) link
(the first section, the discussion of sin and evil, is sort of dostoyevskian. then obv. it goes in a whole other direction...)
― us_odd_bunny_lady (tipsy mothra), Wednesday, 24 June 2009 05:46 (fourteen years ago) link
machen's "the great god pan" works some similar themes..
― ian, Wednesday, 24 June 2009 05:49 (fourteen years ago) link
anna karenina - tolstoyremembrance of things past - tolstoythe loser - bernhardconfessions of zeno - svevorabbit is rich - updikepast continues - shabtaiberlin,alexanderplatz - doblinthe history -morantethe trial - kafkasound and the fury - faulkner
thats the top ten,more or less
― Zeno, Wednesday, 24 June 2009 05:51 (fourteen years ago) link
oh man, not sure where to start... first ones to come to mind are the cliched classicscatcher in the ryethe great gatsbythe bell jar
and then the heart is a lonely hunter - carson mccullersindependence day - richard fordthe raw shark texts - steven hallthe vintner's luck - elizabeth knox
i guess these aren't my 'top 7', just the first 7 great books to come to mind
― where we turn sweet dreams into remarkable realities (just1n3), Wednesday, 24 June 2009 06:01 (fourteen years ago) link
the heart is a lonely hunter - carson mccullers
: D
― Lamp, Wednesday, 24 June 2009 06:05 (fourteen years ago) link
i should have just put 'anything by mccullers'. can u believe she wrote that at like, 21 or something ridiculous?????
― where we turn sweet dreams into remarkable realities (just1n3), Wednesday, 24 June 2009 06:09 (fourteen years ago) link
as in the sciences, writers often peak young :(
― ian, Wednesday, 24 June 2009 06:18 (fourteen years ago) link
ulysses - joycemicroserfs - couplandrings of saturn - sebaldwind in the willows - grahamethe code of the woosters - wodehouse
― Originally opened in 1964 (Ned Trifle II), Wednesday, 24 June 2009 06:54 (fourteen years ago) link
lolita, bell jar and camera lucida.
The Red and the Black - Stendhal
I so much want to read this. But I've been too tired to read any "good" books. :-( I continue to read but most of it is junk, really, like the Sookie Stackhouse books I'm zipping through. I kinda feel I've lost it, but fuck it I love Sookie (and other popcorn)
― I GOTTA BRAKE FREEEEE (stevienixed), Wednesday, 24 June 2009 07:29 (fourteen years ago) link
The last serious book I read was probably half a year ago? The Master and Margarita. Fantastic!
― I GOTTA BRAKE FREEEEE (stevienixed), Wednesday, 24 June 2009 07:30 (fourteen years ago) link
-- ian, Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:18 AM (37 minutes ago) Bookmark
What? Whenever they put out a list of "best young writers" the writers are usually in their thirties. And lots of writers just keep getting better as they get older.
Schklovsky, for one. Dude did his best work in his eighties, I think.
Some of them just seem to do laps around their readers as they get older, like Joyce and Beckett.
Melville was kind of like the Duchamp of writing. Gave it up and then when he's old, bam, HEY GUYS, DID YOU FORGET THAT I'M A GENIUS?
Robert Musil never gave up.
Gordon Lish - bad-ass old man.
Shakespeare died pretty young, but he was doing bad-ass work in the later part of his career.
Jacque the Fatalist came in the last part of Diderot's career.
Philip Dick did a lot of his best work at the end of his career.
Some writers just give up the hackery game as they get older. Michael Bishop did this, for instance.
Could go on.
― bamcquern, Wednesday, 24 June 2009 07:33 (fourteen years ago) link
the long goodbye -- raymond chandlerred harvest -- dashiell hammettsun also rises -- hemingwayjesus son -- denis johnsongirl in landscape -- jonathan lethem
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 24 June 2009 07:47 (fourteen years ago) link
OK, let's get this out of the way: Ulysses, Crime & Punishment/The Bros K, Moby Dick
Lolita - NabokovThe Name of the Rose - EcoThe Erasers - Robbe-GrilletThe Big Sleep - ChandlerThe Moonstone - W. CollinsThe Castle - KafkaBreakfast of Champions - VonnegutThe Sun Also Rises - HemingwayStrange Case of Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde - RL StevensonThe Intuitionist - C. Whitehead
more..
― lol? I nearly wtb 1 (Pillbox), Wednesday, 24 June 2009 08:12 (fourteen years ago) link
probably the 10 worst or most odious novels I can remember reading - some repeat offenders:
Carter, Wise ChildrenLawrence, Women In LovePynchon, Gravity’s RainbowAmis, Yellow DogRushdie, The Satanic VersesRushdie, The Moor’s Last SighAmis, London FieldsBanville, The Book of EvidenceBanville, GhostsBanville, Athena
― the pinefox, Wednesday, 24 June 2009 09:04 (fourteen years ago) link
^ guess which is in my top ten
― ledge, Wednesday, 24 June 2009 09:06 (fourteen years ago) link
if only that list had room for White Teeth
― the pinefox, Wednesday, 24 June 2009 09:06 (fourteen years ago) link
Pynchon's pile of crap is in most people's top 10 it seems
come to think of it, the 2200 pages of Proust I've read deserve to be down in that bad company also
― the pinefox, Wednesday, 24 June 2009 09:08 (fourteen years ago) link
Mine would be total cliche, Joyce, Nabokov, Pynchon's pile of crap, I might throw Andre Breton's Nadja in there with the caveat that it's not a novel. Ooh, and Tom Jones. I think I need to read that again this summer. Shit, Gulliver's Travels isn't really a novel either but it wants in this list with Tale of a Tub to keep it company.
― Eastürzendes Annoybaten (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 24 June 2009 09:09 (fourteen years ago) link
i rep for banville
― ledge, Wednesday, 24 June 2009 09:10 (fourteen years ago) link
Hey pinefox is there a post where you explain your lovably random prejudices? Mean the lovable bit seriously but Pynchon aside Banville seems such an unlikely hate figure unless it's his sheer technicianship that drives you off?
― Eastürzendes Annoybaten (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 24 June 2009 09:11 (fourteen years ago) link
it's not about technique at all -- though the writing in that trilogy is utterly unbelievably second-hand mid-period Beckett, too much a pastiche not to be embarrassing.
― the pinefox, Wednesday, 24 June 2009 09:21 (fourteen years ago) link
what a disaster for pynchon
― velko, Wednesday, 24 June 2009 09:23 (fourteen years ago) link
Banville does urbane way too well to be a Beckett clone.
― Eastürzendes Annoybaten (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 24 June 2009 09:24 (fourteen years ago) link
in general: odious books: vulgarity, ridiculous sexism, thuggish, egotistical attitudes, disgusting sexual content, usually reflecting middle-aged male fantasies
this combines with what feel like deep literary flaws -- Amis's inability to write characters or plots would be an example
I don't have time to explain further, and my views are not popular anyway
Carter, btw: less repellent as a persona, but often a dreadfully clumsy writer of fiction, though she was an important figure in other ways.
― the pinefox, Wednesday, 24 June 2009 09:24 (fourteen years ago) link
1. Lolita - Nabokov (just for the language, really)2. Mason & Dixon - Pynchon (much more heartfelt/human book than Gravity's Rainbow)3. American Tabloid - Ellroy (one of the few books you come away from reading feeling dirty)4. 1982, Janine - Alasdair Gray (mum saw this on my bookshelf and asked if she could borrow it(!))5. The Outsider - Camus (not sure if girth-wise it counts but hey ho).
― calumerio, Wednesday, 24 June 2009 09:27 (fourteen years ago) link
At the moment:
Ursula Le Guin - Left Hand of DarknessKafka - The TrialGene Wolfe - Book of the New SunRaymond Chandler - The Long GoodbyeJohn Wyndham - Day of the Triffids
JG Ballard and HP Lovecraft are my two absolute favourite writers, but I think they are better represented by their short stories (Lovecraft only wrote one "novel" I believe).
― ears are wounds, Wednesday, 24 June 2009 09:30 (fourteen years ago) link
a light in augustmoveable feastsavage detectivesborgelportrait of the artist
― zzz (deej), Wednesday, 24 June 2009 09:31 (fourteen years ago) link
xxxxpost
It's the unpopularity of yr views that makes them interesting tho. For example I agree with your assessment of Amis's flaws but I think you'd have to hold a very limited view of what a novel is to say that they sink what Amis does when he does it well.
Also I'm not sure that sexism and thuggishness can be attributed with certainty to authors that "enjoy" writing about a certain kind of character. By "disgusting sexual content" are you specifically thinking of Gravity's Rainbow? Ulysses could certainly be accused of the same and I think both writers transcend the potential porno aspects of their material.
― Eastürzendes Annoybaten (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 24 June 2009 09:31 (fourteen years ago) link
my top five are unbelievably canonical, it's depressing - maybe i just don't read enough novels
"old goriot" - balzac (despite its maudlin aspects)"the brothers karamazov" - dostoyevsky (despite its mystical aspects)"anna karenin" - tolstoy (despite its moralizing)"the sot-weed factor" - john barth (despite its bonkersness)"independence day" - robert ford (despite nothing)
i agree that a thread about the worst novels you've ever finished might be more interesting
― Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 24 June 2009 09:50 (fourteen years ago) link
JG Ballard and HP Lovecraft are my two absolute favourite writers, but I think they are better represented by their short stories
Same here w/ Lovecraft. Also: Poe & Roald Dahl (though I would totally include Dahl's childrens' novels on my list).
― lol? I nearly wtb 1 (Pillbox), Wednesday, 24 June 2009 09:51 (fourteen years ago) link
Pillbox, your taste so closely resembles mine! YAY.
― I GOTTA BRAKE FREEEEE (stevienixed), Wednesday, 24 June 2009 09:53 (fourteen years ago) link
vladimir nabakov - lolitavs naipaul - a house for mr biswaskingsley amis - lucky jimmartin amis - moneysaul bellow - the adventures of augie marchgustave flaubert - madame bovaryjulian barnes - flaubert's parrotstendahl - the red & the blackmargaret drabble - the ice agedawn powell - the wicked paviliongraham greene - end of the affairjohn kennedy toole - confederacy of duncesjohn dos passos - USA trilogy
― m coleman, Wednesday, 24 June 2009 09:57 (fourteen years ago) link
you really like the USA trilogy?? i kind of... respect it, but man - it was hard goin. i tried to finish 1919 a number of times and failed miserably.
― Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 24 June 2009 10:06 (fourteen years ago) link
― I GOTTA BRAKE FREEEEE (stevienixed), Wednesday, June 24, 2009 5:53 AM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark
lol "Va-ri-ety & Qu(Co)-al-ity"
sn, you wouldn't also happen to be a cat-owning, bicycle-riding, former-English major by any chance?
― lol? I nearly wtb 1 (Pillbox), Wednesday, 24 June 2009 10:20 (fourteen years ago) link
the idea that Ulysses contains something like "disgusting sexual content", or even explicit sexual intercourse, is something of a canard. All the sexual intercourse in it happens off stage or in memory. Molly's memories of sex with Boylan at the end are about as close as it gets. 'Circe' is wild and sexual, true, but still contains no real sexual contact between characters (and it's possibly my least favourite chapter).
this is not to deny that gender and sexuality are thematically important, or part of the general background of characters' thoughts.
― the pinefox, Wednesday, 24 June 2009 10:27 (fourteen years ago) link
'what Amis does when he does it well' - yes. But how often does he do it well? Money is the great exception: it seems to contain a lot of the things I mentioned, but is too magnificent a piece of writing not to compel admiration. His other novels are often train wrecks, to my eyes.
― the pinefox, Wednesday, 24 June 2009 10:30 (fourteen years ago) link
Hand, you mean RICHARD Ford. But your reading is impressive !!
― the pinefox, Wednesday, 24 June 2009 10:31 (fourteen years ago) link
i do in fact mean richard ford. it's one of those plain names that i'm always getting wrong.
pf i fear that my reading is actually not very impressive at all! the number of truly perceptive and momentous works of fiction that i will fail to even fleetingly consider reading fills me with the most tightening feeling of anxiety.
― Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 24 June 2009 10:36 (fourteen years ago) link
you really like the USA trilogy?? i kind of... respect it, but man - it was hard goin.
that's how i feel about pynchon/gravity's rainbow. also i LOVE mid-20th century US realism like dreiser, sinclair lewis and john o'hara. almost nobody reads them anymore.
― m coleman, Wednesday, 24 June 2009 10:37 (fourteen years ago) link
those plain ordinary names ARE hard - I always mix Tracer Hand up with Trouble Hand, Table Hand, Tuesday Hand and the like
― the pinefox, Wednesday, 24 June 2009 10:38 (fourteen years ago) link
Five's quite difficult, but more or less off the top of my head -
The Alteration - Kingsley AmisThe Image of a Drawn Sword - Jocelyn BrookeThe Real Life of Sebastian Knight - NabokovVenusberg - Anthony PowellJourney by Moonlight - Antal Szerb
― GamalielRatsey, Wednesday, 24 June 2009 10:48 (fourteen years ago) link