love* in the time of plague (and by love* i mean brexit* and other dreary matters of uk politics)

Starmer's approach on this will fuck Labour as much as standing with the Tories on Scottish independence. He's put himself in a position where all he can gain is a pat of the head for being a grown up.

If our response is deemed (or spun) as a success we'll stick with Boris Churchill for Getting Covid Done.
If it's as expected the worst in Europe and second only to US globally then politely and respectfully and forensically holding hands with Boris makes you part of the problem.

It already is the worst in Europe and it already is being spun as a success.

British journalist discovers the outcome of British journalism. https://t.co/U397gmnL2q

— epiplexis (@epiplexis_) May 3, 2020

the senseless fucked up duplexity of the british public will keep the tories in power for at least another decade, no matter how weak their leadership is.

I was allowing for the dust to settle in a year or so and someone to do all the above average death calculations as each country is counting differently but yes, it's terrible and probably the worst.

xp

According to Grant Shapps this morning, the reason the death rate looks so bad in comparison to other countries is because we've got really good statisticians in the UK. No joke.

for a start those germans have traditionally been not very competent at the old game of counting corpses

People on this thread keep saying, "Ah but just wait until unemployment goes through the roof! Or the housing market crashes! The economy tanks!" but they've probably got the single greatest get-out clause any British government has ever had. Plus Boris Johnson almost died! Stick that in your pipe and smoke it! And, by the way, did you know Boris Johnson almost died?

― The Corbynite Maneuver (Tom D.), Sunday, 3 May 2020 bookmarkflaglink

How does this make sense? People aren't going to cut Boris slack if they are struggling in a recession because his life was in danger lol.

I am counting on the cruelty if the British public here.

This crisis has hardly started to work itself through.

The cardinal error you're making is assuming politics has to make sense, I would have thought the last few years would have disavowed you of that notion.

Hello?

67% think government prepared badly for coronavirus pandemic, yet 61% think government is handling the situation well

Notwithstanding the fact that you picked out the least serious part of my post.

People like money in their pockets more than they like Boris Johnson. They will need to keep things working for most people.

I saw people gasp at that poll on twitter but ultimately Sunak has kept the show on the road for enough people, so the numbers reflect that.

xp I treat all boys of your posts seriously, Tom! Even if you do not.

I don't, I thought you'd have realized that by now!

i'm with optimistic alphie on this one tbh, the tories were blase about this monster and the british love a good comeuppance story iirc, sunak is all they have now

All those numbers are saying: "Herd immunity was a joke but I'm on furlough with most of my salary/mortgage holiday" etc. xp

Whatever makes you feel better.

sunak and brexit, that is

lol

psyched that we’re gonna officially overtake the italian death toll in the next day or two, let’s fuckin’ show johnny eu how it’s done just before we pull the hard brexit ripcord

Whatever makes you feel better.

― The Corbynite Maneuver (Tom D.), Sunday, 3 May 2020 bookmarkflaglink

This is not a feeling, just how I think it might play out.

Like I said yesterday almost everyone in every country (bar maybe Brazil and the US) is backing the current government and what they do. It's not about the Tories being infallible but you do you.

how do people keep their faith in the great british public (a mostly powerless minority aside) eventually "getting it", now, in light of the past decade or few?

Who mentioned anything about the Tories being infallible btw?

Lol

I think people get it when they can't pay their bills.

Absolutely no point making any predictions about the next election, we're in the middle of a once-a-century upheaval and no one has any idea how it's going to play out.

I do think people are underestimating quite how bad the recession is going to be though, modern economies aren't meant to just be stopped for months on end, we're in uncharted territory but it's going to make 2008 and onwards look like a walk in the park.

Like I said yesterday almost everyone in every country (bar maybe Brazil and the US) is backing the current government and what they do.

About that.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EXFmEvhWkAAlmuR?format=jpg&name=small

I don't get the sense the French or Spanish government are going to fall.

And yet you get the sense that the British goverment is going to.

What I don't understand is, given that politics in the UK was already completely distorted and irrational before this crisis even started, why anyone is so confident that 1 plus 1 will add up to 2 after it - when it wasn't adding up to 2 before it.

It's less about a rational "well perhaps we need an improved safety net and these guys aren't going to provide it" and more of a desire to punish the government.

Ironically the danger zone for the Tories is if things have started improving significantly by 2024 - Labour governments tend to be elected during moments of national optimism. But the election is four and a half years away and no one has any clue what's going to happen in the next month.

it's unclear/doubtful if there's anyone in the position to take advantage of upcoming disasters and upheaval

And yet you get the sense that the British goverment is going to.

― The Corbynite Maneuver (Tom D.), Sunday, 3 May 2020 bookmarkflaglink

Lol not at all. I just said why they are doing well, and why they might not in future. Whereas you seem to be saying the Tories will get away with it because the public are so irrational they will give Boris slack as the economy goes down the drain

XP to Tom

the kind of economic settlement that'll be necessary once the immediate crisis has dwindled - whatever that might mean - is not going to be something that any of the major parties are conceptually prepared for or good at. best guess is that a Tory government will at some point try to go hard on an austerity for recovery programme, but it won't work. electorates generally blame governments for their economic suffering (perceived or real) whether the sitting government is actually at fault or not. so nothing is a given as far as future elections are concerned.

all feels like a sideshow tbf but that's where we are and that's why assumptions based on the past are more or less meaningless

All I'm saying is I'm wary of all this "Well, when X then Y" conjecturing when there's actually some evidence that Y might not necessarily follow X - I wouldn't exactly call the former breezy optimism but nonetheless.

well i wouldn't underplay the current blitz spirit either, the nation seems to be in a fever dream it's probably never experienced before and the rona is only one of the factors in that

Worth remembering end of the og blitz spirit was getting rid of Churchill

yeah but there's a ton of reasons why i don't think this compares much, it's a fantasy of a mentality almost nobody really remembers, which is why i think this is unparalleled. we're in a Disney blitz spirit

but also yes, again, all bets are off, all predictions are based on very little

Lots of middle England wanking off in their sheds while playing the sound fx of bomber squadrons, pretending they are in an Anderson shelter. That's the level of unreality some people seem to be living in.

Some of these lot are just as nutso as the 5g anti-lockdown gang in their own frazzled way.

Worth remembering end of the og blitz spirit was getting rid of Churchill

Indeed but that was all about optimism, it's kind of in short supply at the moment plus Keir Starmer.

Reading Henry Green gives the distinct impression that the war was seen as a massive pain in the arse by people in London at the time. I'm sure that was outweighed by sheer fear but the whole Blitz spirit mythos is something that's been concocted in retrospect.

exackly

also a lot of the looting, fucking and murdering written out of it

The tories were quite reluctant to open up the tube stations for the great unwashed to shelter in during the blitz iirc.

(xxp) One of my favourite novels! I think there's the sheer tedium of hanging about wating for something to happen which, when it does happen, is worse than you expected.

When you compare the blitz to what happened to Warsaw or the war of annihilation and hunger plan to starve 30m to death in the Soviet Union. Its like endlessly talking about an autoglass cup final from '94 or something.

The idea that Jonson are co are going to suffer from this makes no sense to me. This is a national disaster. Cummings' MO is making hay from disasters. They will spin this so that upsides are created out of thin air, foreigners, immigrants, the press, the public themselves will be blamed and scapegoated for the economy (and eat it up), the PR will reach new levels of Brave New World totality, mendacity and psychological penetration, and the press will dutifully report it because the tone will be overwhelmingly "Don't do down Britain". Lies work, we have seen that, and lies are are supremely effective when you only need 42% of the vote, or polling.

And Keir Starmer will go along with all of it.

the other complicating factor is that we’re in all likelihood going to end up with a catastrophic brexit so fuck knows what state we’ll be in by the time of the next election and how the great british electorate will be taking it

Twitter bots all using same text about “journalism missing the mood” - I’ve heard that same phrase from some people too. Who is paying for this? pic.twitter.com/bB5jFjhPSo

— Paul Joyce (@bergersmicer) May 3, 2020

I was going to say I can't wait for them to turn on the NHS but they've already started with that Mail story rubbishing doctors with links the Labour Party.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxqvwkmTNy8