https://i.imgur.com/qqP5V8n.png
― Nhex, Monday, 8 June 2020 20:18 (three years ago) link
ehehehe
― all cats are beautiful (silby), Monday, 8 June 2020 20:20 (three years ago) link
@flopson i have a biomed hedge fund friend who is MMT-curious and asked for a reasonable/intelligent book to read on the topic and i didn't know what was good but thought you might can you recommend anything?
― Mordy, Tuesday, 9 June 2020 14:53 (three years ago) link
https://stephaniekelton.com/book/
"the deficit myth" just came out today!
― methinks dababy doth bop shit too much (m bison), Tuesday, 9 June 2020 15:08 (three years ago) link
Does MMT depend on us being a global empire? Because that seems to be a big component of why we can carry our deficits.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 9 June 2020 16:37 (three years ago) link
seems probable that MMT works so long as you're the global currency of choice
― methinks dababy doth bop shit too much (m bison), Tuesday, 9 June 2020 16:39 (three years ago) link
Kelton was a guest on Chris Hayes' podcast fairly recently. very worthwhile discussion, esp. if you don't want to read an entire book about the subject.
― Evans on Hammond (evol j), Tuesday, 9 June 2020 17:05 (three years ago) link
Doesn't being the global currency of choice basically depend on having a ton of aircraft carriers and ICMBs xp?
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 9 June 2020 18:01 (three years ago) link
ya
― methinks dababy doth bop shit too much (m bison), Tuesday, 9 June 2020 18:06 (three years ago) link
― Mordy, Tuesday, June 9, 2020 10:53 AM (three hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
i dont recommend reading a book about MMT as i consider it largely a scam and a distraction from actually good arguments for deficit spending or debt monetization, and harmful in its anti-welfare state tendencies. i have never read a book on it, i have only read 10,000 posts. based on the reviews i’ve read so far of kelton’s book, it seems like it contains some howlers. but reading it alongside critiques would probably be good. it’s almost certainly less boring than Moser’s textbook, and she’s a good writer.
in general MMT is either (1) trivial but pretends it is radical (pretending its description of consolidated fed-treasury differs from rest of monetary economics), (2) wrong (contains a lot of weird arguments anti-welfare spending and pro-job guarantees on the basis the former is inflationary), (3) right for the wrong reasons (MMT implicitly assumes permanent demand deficiency rather than demonstrating it)
i realize i avoid getting into the nitty gritty in these threads, that’s because (1) when im on here im procrastinating doing my own nitty gritty economics research (2) getting into the morass of accounting details is how they getcha. however im teaching some friends of mine macroeconomics in a slack channel rn, will post some stuff when i get to monetary/MMT/japan. i promise you it will be super boring and disappointing :)
I don’t remember if i posted this last time but this conversation between a mainstream monetary guy and an MMT guy shows how little daylight there is and how dull the differences are http://andolfatto.blogspot.com/2019/09/a-conversation-with-eric-tymoigne-on.html?m=1
― flopson, Tuesday, 9 June 2020 18:23 (three years ago) link
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/07/coronavirus-banks-collapse/612247/
The reforms were well intentioned, but, as we’ll see, they haven’t kept the banks from falling back into old, bad habits. After the housing crisis, subprime CDOs naturally fell out of favor. Demand shifted to a similar—and similarly risky—instrument, one that even has a similar name: the CLO, or collateralized loan obligation. A CLO walks and talks like a CDO, but in place of loans made to home buyers are loans made to businesses—specifically, troubled businesses. CLOs bundle together so-called leveraged loans, the subprime mortgages of the corporate world. These are loans made to companies that have maxed out their borrowing and can no longer sell bonds directly to investors or qualify for a traditional bank loan. There are more than $1 trillion worth of leveraged loans currently outstanding. The majority are held in CLOs.
― j., Wednesday, 10 June 2020 15:46 (three years ago) link
stonks
― mookieproof, Thursday, 11 June 2020 17:01 (three years ago) link
more like stanks, amirite?
― Life is a banquet and my invitation was lost in the mail (j.lu), Thursday, 11 June 2020 17:04 (three years ago) link
to what extent is the massive fed preemptive action currently underway reducing/not reducing the risk from that?
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 11 June 2020 17:14 (three years ago) link
lol at all of this
last week: stocks rise 5% on covid optimism!!!
*5 days pass, in which absolutely nothing happens that was not already widely expected*
stocks fall 5% on glum covid outlook!!!
― our god is a might god (Karl Malone), Thursday, 11 June 2020 17:23 (three years ago) link
supposedly the huge gains of the last couple months were predicated on the fed taking strong action and giving investors confidence that the world would not explode
which always seemed like bullshit to me. i don't think it's a coordinated effort or anything, but the last few weeks have just seemed like willingly suspending disbelief to pump the market back in and squeeze the last juices out of it before manufacturing slowdowns and a collapsing real estate market become so obvious that even investors have to acknowledge it.
― our god is a might god (Karl Malone), Thursday, 11 June 2020 17:26 (three years ago) link
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, June 11, 2020 10:14 AM (eighteen minutes ago)
idk, but if you read the regulations/descriptions of the PPP program, it says that the loans can be resold on the secondary market ... so, if I was a cartoonish pessimist, I would suggest that the next "sub-prime" crisis will be risky PPP loans ... they have now reduced the portion of the loan that has to be used for payroll from 75% to 60% and given people/businesses 24 weeks to qualify for forgiveness as opposed to the original 8 weeks.
― sarahell, Thursday, 11 June 2020 17:38 (three years ago) link
(2) getting into the morass of accounting details is how they getcha
ooooooooh!!!! do tell!
― sarahell, Thursday, 11 June 2020 17:39 (three years ago) link
use of "stonks" really peaking this past month.
― Yerac, Thursday, 11 June 2020 17:40 (three years ago) link
xp -- wait really? Why the fuck would anyone buy a loan that is meant to be forgiven?
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 11 June 2020 17:41 (three years ago) link
how much truth is there in the apocalyptic "soon people will have to pay all their back rent/mortgage payments and everything will crash and burn" articles that are coming out now?
― sarahell, Thursday, 11 June 2020 17:42 (three years ago) link
idk? it's there in the text of the law though. Maybe not all the loans are intended to be forgiven? I am guessing that at minimum, it is a way for banks to free up more capital in the short-term to do more lending?
― sarahell, Thursday, 11 June 2020 17:44 (three years ago) link
perhaps they will be unforgiven?
― voltmeter said i had potential (Sufjan Grafton), Thursday, 11 June 2020 18:13 (three years ago) link
i really hope these redditors/robinhood first time account people that I have read so much about the past month don't lose their shirt.
― Yerac, Thursday, 11 June 2020 18:18 (three years ago) link
supposedly the huge gains of the last couple months were predicated on the fed taking strong action and giving investors confidence that the world would not explodewhich always seemed like bullshit to me. i don't think it's a coordinated effort or anything, but the last few weeks have just seemed like willingly suspending disbelief to pump the market back in and squeeze the last juices out of it before manufacturing slowdowns and a collapsing real estate market become so obvious that even investors have to acknowledge it.― our god is a might god (Karl Malone), Thursday, June 11, 2020 10:26 AM (forty-eight minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
― our god is a might god (Karl Malone), Thursday, June 11, 2020 10:26 AM (forty-eight minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
it's impossible to know if this pullback will start the end-of-february-esque retest of lows or will start the end-of-april-esque retest of some highs.
― voltmeter said i had potential (Sufjan Grafton), Thursday, 11 June 2020 18:18 (three years ago) link
― Yerac, Thursday, June 11, 2020 1:18 PM (nineteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
I was just reflecting on what a terrible feature of our system it is that people feel like they need to wait around for others' pain in order to get on the american dream latter - specifically in response to a reddit post that was hoping for widespread foreclosures so he could buy a house, a horrible sentiment yet sort of understandable.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 11 June 2020 18:38 (three years ago) link
And then on top of that, the system throws a lot of headfakes at you
because in america someone has to lose in order for you to feel like you can gain.
― Yerac, Thursday, 11 June 2020 18:39 (three years ago) link
*american dream ladder
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 11 June 2020 18:41 (three years ago) link
go, shitbin, go
stocks rise 5% on covid optimism!!!*5 days pass, in which absolutely nothing happens that was not already widely expected*stocks fall 5% on glum covid outlook!!!
it's not even as compelling as mass psychosis
― brooklyn suicide cult (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 11 June 2020 19:16 (three years ago) link
The state police said it will be an 8 hour wait from the back of the line to speak to a state employee about unemployment. pic.twitter.com/plGONcpS6n— Daniel Desrochers (@drdesrochers) June 17, 2020
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Wednesday, 17 June 2020 17:16 (three years ago) link
Trump country.
― Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 17 June 2020 17:28 (three years ago) link
stocks up on reports that unemployment line is now less than 16 hours long
― Karl Malone, Wednesday, 17 June 2020 18:03 (three years ago) link
jeez, what state is that?
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Wednesday, 17 June 2020 19:15 (three years ago) link
i think kentucky (the tweeter lists kentucky.com as his website and reports for the lexington herald leader)
― Karl Malone, Wednesday, 17 June 2020 19:16 (three years ago) link
oh yeah. they've been dismantling their unemployment system for a decade iirc.
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Wednesday, 17 June 2020 19:27 (three years ago) link
a sad coda to that unemployment line in Frankfort, KY yesterday:
Hundreds of Kentucky residents waited in line for as long as 10 hours outside a makeshift unemployment office at the State Capitol in Frankfort on Wednesday in hopes of getting paid for claims that, for some, dated back as far as March.But in the end, a handful who had stood in line all day were turned away, prompting despair and anger, the Lexington Herald-Leader reports.“Maybe, maybe 25 people left to be seen and they turn us away,” resident Deborah McLaughlin told the paper.Hundreds more who arrived after the line was cut off were turned away, as well. The state’s computer system shuts down at 7 p.m. and cannot further process claims, officials told those in line.
But in the end, a handful who had stood in line all day were turned away, prompting despair and anger, the Lexington Herald-Leader reports.
“Maybe, maybe 25 people left to be seen and they turn us away,” resident Deborah McLaughlin told the paper.
Hundreds more who arrived after the line was cut off were turned away, as well. The state’s computer system shuts down at 7 p.m. and cannot further process claims, officials told those in line.
sorry everyone, but you know computers. they don't work after 7 pm, gotta shut them down.
― time is running out to pitch in $5 (Karl Malone), Thursday, 18 June 2020 23:38 (three years ago) link
Yes, I am concerned the longer this goes on, the more losses banks will face. Large banks have more capital than they had before the 08 crisis, but not enough. 1/2— Neel Kashkari (@neelkashkari) June 19, 2020
― Dirty Epic H. (Eric H.), Friday, 19 June 2020 20:20 (three years ago) link
They should stop paying dividends and raise capital to increase their resiliency. They can essentially inoculate themselves from COVID and should do so now. 2/2— Neel Kashkari (@neelkashkari) June 19, 2020
i smell a moral hazard
if only these banks had some real skin in the game
― mookieproof, Saturday, 20 June 2020 03:16 (three years ago) link
Senior Trump economic advisor Kevin Hassett is leaving. A second senior advisor, Tomas Philipson, is leaving, too:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/06/24/white-house-economist-philipson-departure/
And the market is getting skittish again:
I hope everyone is watching this. There’s not much left they can do before the bottom falls out of the market.https://t.co/UkJXeUYUhq— Angry Staffer (@AngrierWHStaff) June 25, 2020
I don't know, but I think the economy might be in pretty bad shape.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 25 June 2020 17:43 (three years ago) link
Has anyone else read this? Not any new information, really, but pulls together a fair amount of date, synthesizes it, and makes its case pretty well...
https://newleftreview.org/issues/II123/articles/robert-brenner-escalating-plunder?fbclid=IwAR2hj5SYEErcjs0rW6YHtMFpjX5laUuYQi5DMIknsoFY1qib1LweqyhzW3s
― blue light or electric light (the table is the table), Thursday, 25 June 2020 19:00 (three years ago) link
Has anyone else read this? Not any new information, really, but pulls together a fair amount of date, synthesizes it, and makes its case pretty well...https://newleftreview.org/issues/II123/articles/robert-brenner-escalating-plunder?fbclid=IwAR2hj5SYEErcjs0rW6YHtMFpjX5laUuYQi5DMIknsoFY1qib1LweqyhzW3s🕸
― Boring, Maryland, Friday, 26 June 2020 02:54 (three years ago) link
i think from now on sic should post the little spiderweb after those, like he is spiderman trying to stop up the web channels from funneling our information out
― j., Friday, 26 June 2020 03:34 (three years ago) link
xp it was ever thus. governments create and sustain markets etc etc
― methinks dababy doth bop shit too much (m bison), Friday, 26 June 2020 04:00 (three years ago) link
Cirque du Soleil filing for bankruptcy, so there's your silver lining.
― brooklyn suicide cult (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 2 July 2020 19:20 (three years ago) link
lol it's like the backbone of the economy of Quebec
― Boring, Maryland, Thursday, 2 July 2020 22:50 (three years ago) link
but they infected us too
― brooklyn suicide cult (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 2 July 2020 23:19 (three years ago) link
In case you were wondering- this is a high number32% of U.S. households missed their July housing payments https://t.co/fR9ZExbH1M— ≡l≡v≡nth (@3L3V3NTH) July 8, 2020
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Wednesday, 8 July 2020 19:12 (three years ago) link
the number of evictions going through right now must be astronomical
― Temporary Erogenous Zone (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 8 July 2020 19:12 (three years ago) link