Rolling Thread on Race 2020

Black people who don't like/want to use POC just tend to call themselves "Black", in my experience

This sort of gets at what I was asking about earlier. I can see contexts where it's important to specifically talk about black or indigenous people and can see contexts where it's important to discuss non-white people as a whole. I have trouble imagining actual irl situations where you need to refer to non-white people as a whole but also need to distinguish subgroups within the group that you are discussing as a whole.

To summarize from yesterday, it occurs to me that the core distinction between African-American and indigenous people vs other people of colour in the US context is that the first two groups did not choose to be American but had it forced on them via settler colonialism or slavery. In the Canadian context, where the majority of the black population did arrive via immigration (even by bernard's and table's descriptions), I'm less convinced of the necessary distinction vs other groups of immigrant minorities (who have often also experienced substantial segregation, violence, and discrimination, cf link on segregation of Asians). No question that the situation of First Nations is very different. (Only reason I raised the question was ron's comment on the suggested reordering in Canada; I haven't actually seen it anywhere except a couple of social media posts myself.) Anyway, I did note the name of the Maynard book and will look into it.

I haven't actually seen it anywhere except a couple of social media posts myself

True for me as well, in case that wasn't clear.

sorry for setting this off, my original q was out of genuine curiosity!

Ime "BIPOC" is usually shorthand in print vs writing out the whole thing? As far as I can remember hearing it in person, it's usually all pronounced out of respect. I don't think I've ever heard anyone in a movement/activism space say "BIPOC" but that's just my experience.

"QTPOC" on the other hand is pronounced "cutie-pok" and is--forgive me--cute!

yeah. to clarify, I don't want to shut down conversation about POC and BIPOC and say 'white people can't talk about this word that suddenly hit broader usage and may/may not be the correct word to use in varied contexts,' but instead to steer away from a really tedious correctness conversation

esby, the problem isn't that you're not curious. It's that your motives for being resistant to changes in language and terminology are murky at best. Why is it such a big deal to you?

(sorry to continue the tedious conversation)

this might give you a clue as to esby's inner workings:
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Jake from State farm is b-b-black now??? Drake from State farm?????? excuse me, no. this is ridiculous. change a character beloved by millions for years for no reason other than wokeness. what is this world coming to

― lumen (esby), Wednesday, May 6, 2020 4:26 AM bookmarkflaglink

oof, you found my SNL audition, so embarrassing to look back at now. I've grown so much as a person since then! I apologize to Jake from State farm and anyone else who I may have hurt. thanks neanderthal, I always appreciate your support.

I know there might not be 51 unique people posting rn but can we all do our part here

ilx is too paranoid

I don't see what he has done in this discussion to deserve a FP, to be honest. If it's over something he did previously, the FPs should have been given for that imo.

ftr it's more the latter than the former, but this disingenuous "what do I did, contradict the hivemind" schtick has been part of his greatest hits for the last few years.

esby, the problem isn't that you're not curious. It's that your motives for being resistant to changes in language and terminology are murky at best. Why is it such a big deal to you?

― blue light or electric light (the table is the table), Monday, June 29, 2020 3:09 PM (thirty minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

i wouldn't call it 'a big deal' exactly but it is something i would particularly want to ask ilx about because i spend zero time in the academic/activist/ppl-who-use-words-like-BIPOC-irl sphere and this place is my closest connection to people who would (and, seemingly, do) care enough about this to explain it or weigh in or just have a conversation about this at all.

i'm not trying to change anyone's opinion, if it's a useful word it will stick around, but i am just a little floored by it's zero-to-sixty adoption (from my perspective: george floyd dies, 1 week later black ppl are "BIPOC"s now.... what?), and as i earlier said, i find it to be an alienating and dehumanizing piece of academic language, and i'm not sure it doesn't just mean the same thing as 'POC' or 'non-white' but trendy and ultra-jargony for no reason?. BUT i'm not going to start a committee to combat the adoption of the term BIPOC, say it and call people that if it is useful to you.

table told you two days ago

xpost just to Sund4r: I think that the highlighting of distinctiveness comes from the fact that these discourses often originate in academic and left circles in the US, which rightly view the US as being founded on dual original sins, namely the genocide of the Indigenous population and chattel slavery. Thus, these two groups get highlighted as a way of bringing forth the ways in which those histories have continued unabated.

― blue light or electric light (the table is the table), Sunday, June 28, 2020 8:50 PM (two days ago) bookmarkflaglink

yeah but he wants to hear from someone who affirms what he already believes

Just want to pop in and complain about the tendency on this board to pile on people whose ideas may be merely a few degrees different from theirs. They are so often immediately jumped on as "arguing in bad faith" or "trolling" when that poster may be making a simple inquiry, or holding up a mirror to a particular idea. That this defensive posturing sometimes includes some of my favorite, and indeed truly beloved, posters is always such a letdown. esby isn't a troll and he's not the fash. He's been with us for nearly 15 years and I've always liked him. I'm sure this post of mine will earn derision as well, but fuck it.

ppl who have been 'with us' for nearly 15 years should be past butthurt posturing about how iconoclastic they are, no?

I sometimes think people fixate on terminology because fixing the whole system of oppression is such an enormous job which can seem too big and hopeless ever to grab ahold of or change, while terminology is much, much easier to address and by addressing it, it looks like you are doing something positive.

esby isn't a troll

this has not been my experience of most of esby's posts, sorry peace man

really good points being made on both sides here

posting that on a thread about race is straight-up shitty. there's your s.b., esby

go for it. I made my point already. if it's trolling then I guess Im trolling, no clue

peace_man, I respectfully disagree, esby's been doing this repetitive "I am better than you other pseudo-woke libs" for like two years. he talks more about how unpopular his opinions are than actually sharing any in the politics threads, just shows up to dunk on people weakly. I ain't gonna front like I ain't posted some trash threads/posts during COVID, but he has a habit of showing up just to mock earnest discussion. or create polls that point out how above everybody he is.

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this movie should be called "I WAS CUCKED BY A TEENAGE ROBOT!!!"

― lumen (esby), Thursday, June 18, 2020 9:31 PM bookmarkflaglink
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OFFICIAL WORLDWIDE !! COVID-19 IS OVER !! PARTY THREAD
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I think my favorite part of pizza is the cum

― lumen (esby), Wednesday, May 27, 2020 1:55 PM bookmarkflaglink
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the slaves trump would have owned also would have had covid!!!!!!!!!

― lumen (esby), Tuesday, May 19, 2020 2:27 PM bookmarkflaglink

important not to forget this vital point and I can't believe ppl are disregarding it!!!!!

― lumen (esby), Tuesday, May 19, 2020 2:28 PM bookmarkflaglink
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Being a socialist, a radical, or an anarchist is not the same as 'bitching loudly on the internet every day'.
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undo/lift curse?
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one easy trick to end the nonstop overwrought political direness: ban the leftists

― lumen (esby), Saturday, April 11, 2020 5:15 PM bookmarkflaglink

i agree we need more women here, I would like to tell them that their taste in music is wrong

― lumen (esby), Sunday, April 12, 2020 12:03 AM bookmarkflaglink
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hey comrades, how many millions of $ were we supposed to give to wealthy white brooklynites before we start saving all the marginalized and at risk ppl again? i forgot..

― lumen (esby), Tuesday, March 10, 2020 4:30 PM bookmarkflaglink
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IF YOU DO THAT YOU CONDONE MULTIPLE NOTORIOUS GENOCIDES BEEP BLOOP B ERNIE SANDERS BORP

― lumen (esby), Thursday, March 5, 2020 10:48 PM bookmarkflaglink
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should other people have different opinions?
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but let's hope CORONAVIRUS only kills the bad olds and not Bernie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

― lumen (esby), Wednesday, February 26, 2020 9:54 PM bookmarkflaglink
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hot ppl are just better, sorry

― lumen (esby), Tuesday, February 11, 2020 1:49 PM bookmarkflaglink
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this board deserves so much more trolling than it gets tbh... y'all are, like, the bougiest ppl in the world

― lumen (esby), Tuesday, February 4, 2020 11:54 AM bookmarkflaglink
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Bernie saves woman's life by yelling at her
Bernie solves billionaires by yelling at them
Bernie fixes health care by yelling at it
Bernie escapes death's clutches by yelling at death
Bernie lifts off into space by yelling at the ground

― lumen (esby), Monday, January 27, 2020 3:53 PM bookmarkflaglink
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i feel like i have read this article a million times.

you surely have, it's pt. 34985859340293849494 in the 'men (bad) should be women (good)' series. there's nothing wrong with these kids. teenagers are horny??? men laugh at jokes their friends make instead of chastising them for being inappropriate???? my stars, it all just makes me want to cry

― lumen (esby), Monday, December 16, 2019 10:52 PM bookmarkflaglink
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• ^^ all these conservative opinions are boring
• trump is alive and he is your president and that's ok, having a decade long emotional response to this is nagl imo
• socialism is incel economics
• whoever said boomers and gen x are indistinguishable was otm you guys watch snl and listen to the eagles
• thank you for loving esby

― lumen (esby), Monday, November 18, 2019 4:11 PM bookmarkflaglink
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lol. a Fancy White in his 2nd year of college is what I meant yeah, but you know, whatever fills yr bag

― lumen (esby), Thursday, October 17, 2019 5:17 PM bookmarkflaglink

don't worry, grampa's gonna start the revolution any day now and then it's off to the re-education camps for me

― lumen (esby), Thursday, October 17, 2019 7:30 PM bookmarkflaglink
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what is the most woke body of water?
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so when trump wins reëlection and the civil war starts are y'all actually gonna take up arms and fight or are you just going to post the same horseshit here for yet another 4 years?
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TRUMP
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I mean it’s also the progressive version of owning the libs

― Larry Elleison (rogermexico.), Friday, September 20, 2019 5:45 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

once again i ask: what exactly is it you guys think you do here all day?

― lumen (esby), Friday, September 20, 2019 9:09 PM bookmarkflaglink
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change thread title to 'Rutger Hauer is a DEAD'

― lumen (esby), Wednesday, July 24, 2019 3:02 PM bookmarkflaglink
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from the "Homophobia - Why?" thread:

str8 so apols for the ignorance but... what, exactly, do you guys do with the jizzboards

― lumen (esby), Monday, July 15, 2019 3:51 PM bookmarkflaglink
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there is one alternate universe out of billions where ivanka is a really cool and nice person despite her upbringing, and i feel sorry for her because she's placed in these insane situations where she has be around political leaders and pretend like she belongs. must be excruciating for her, in that alternative universe. in this one, though, she fakes it til she makes it and later is like 'i architected the fuck out of that greet and meet, j kush'

― i will never make a typo ever again (Karl Malone), Sunday, June 30, 2019 12:17 PM bookmarkflaglink

i guess she'll just have to settle for this universe, where she's smoking hot and her dad is the president :(

― lumen (esby), Sunday, June 30, 2019 12:23 PM bookmarkflaglink

Time4FiftyOne

― Got your butt drank (Neanderthal), Sunday, June 30, 2019 12:57 PM bookmarkflaglink

esby's not so much out-of-bounds as just annoying and inane. it would be like killing a flea.

― A is for (Aimless), Sunday, June 30, 2019 1:06 PM bookmarkflaglink

annoying and inane

Oh, and I forgot to say "pointless and without redeeming value".

― A is for (Aimless), Sunday, June 30, 2019 1:08 PM bookmarkflaglink

go screw, you dusty farmer's almanac

― lumen (esby), Sunday, June 30, 2019 1:13 PM bookmarkflaglink
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all 'indie' music is just an absolute affront

― lumen (esby), Thursday, May 30, 2019 6:53 PM bookmarkflaglink

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can you imagine being a normie, just making blithe observations about trump then going on to discuss pop culture? leaving us ilxors have to fight the war against trump w. hitler on our own, one chapo ep at a time? beyond fucked.

― lumen (esby), Friday, May 10, 2019 3:56 PM bookmarkflaglink

He's been with us for nearly 15 years

Why has he been with us for 15 years? What's he getting out of it? The chance to be The Guy Who Dares To Say The Unsayable, what a fucking pathetic waste of 15 years of his time.

i've been here 16 years and I've been SBed twice, told to go fuck myself, and shot at by other ilxors

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W99n083E0IA

Why has he been with us for 15 years? What's he getting out of it? The chance to be The Guy Who Dares To Say The Unsayable, what a fucking pathetic waste of 15 years of his time.

We have several of these and esby > Morbius all day every day until the heat death of the universe.

<3 morbs

i read Morbs more as angst from decades of frustration vs "I'm better than you", though he infuriates me now and then, I value his opinions on many things, which is more than I can say for esby

No fucking way, Morbz is a legend, this esby character isn't fit to tie his shoelaces.

Forming opinions about the relative worth of ilxors is unavoidable. Rating ilxors on ilx is not a good habit. I don't encourage it.

Somee of those are funny and ILE could use a ribbing at times imo. There's been a lot worse on the noise board.

I like esby's contributions to IMM and the ILM comp.

None of it was funny except for the 'dusty farmer's almanac' jibe - Aimless obv. brings out the best in satirists.

I live to serve.

Did esby's username change? I was here for like five years (06-11), then back on and off with some notable longer absences. I don't remember esby at all.

sleepingbag iirc?

oh, beloved user sleepingbag

Also burt stanton, Spectrum, and larry appleton, no?

nah the latter two were likely the same, burt's a lawyer who doesn't wipe his ass and GRIM REAPAH

less esby, more gilmore

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CS627aKrJI&t=24s

aw boo try this

Why are you guys doing this on this thread

Gilmore is amazing, teaching her work is always an incredible experience.

xpost good point, this was not the thread to be heading up this diversion on, so I apologize

Straw/camel's back.

I'm bookmarking that video for later

many of you need to spend less time on the internet or at least ILX

Will happily send PDF of Gilmore's work if you message me

I’d love a pdf, table. Email in profile works.