love* in the time of plague (and by love* i mean brexit* and other dreary matters of uk politics)

God I loved the con dem coalition days. The Olympic ceremony, the 2011 riots, it was just an optimistic time for this great country. What went wrong?

progressive patriotism = making a cup of tea for people before you deport them iirc

xp as ever, blame for this tragedy lies with Jreyme Conryb

it happened in that golden era when Tories were still nice and only killing hundreds of disabled ppl rather than thousands and Yvette Cooper was attacking Hostile Environment for being too damn soft, a time of gentler and more civil political discourse.

why do these people hate populism so much when their entire political strategy is racism and flags

"It'll be fine by Christmas," seems such an odd promise in the context of reports that a second spike might lead to 120 000 deaths. Still, I was slightly anticipating a slightly more ridiculous press conference (along the lines of "you actually all can go back to work").

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EdJ08DHWAAE8aBU?format=jpg&name=large

I'm starting to think that post might have been misunderstood sarcasm, because Phillips was apparently scheming for him to have his whip removed?

No, that’s another Phillips - Euan, who made hundreds of antisemitism complaints and is discussed in the leaked report.

ah, he probably is a tool then!

Phillips is a cursed name

The Ace With The Mace is clearly an emotional chap, I 100% believe he cries watching the 2012 opening ceremony.

I mean hopefully not the bits with Frank Turner and Ed Sheeran in them but still.

Every time I think about Frank fucking Turner getting a slot it just enrages me, like who was asking for that?

Going to bite on this one. Patriotism and flag-waving is silly and banal but why not just stick a flag on it and shut down that flank? It seems to matter to some people and not doing opens up space for accusations of they dont love our country innit they love the palestine more than they love their own mothers they dont care

I love britain, frack any of it get banged

britain is a racist endeavour, loving it is never ok

That's it, I love Britain.

bloody love a bit of Blighty me

I've got that Alan Vega track, "Viet Vet" going through my head now:

"He loves his country
It's the greatest, it's the greatest"

you don't have to be a bit mad tory to live here but it sure helps!

its UK garage not EU garage chat shit get banged

Don't really give a shit about strategy, fuck a patriot, open the borders

I mean I guess it's like religion, not my place to question other people's faith, but at least religion has some up sides.

I don't have any real interest in either patriotism or religion but I don't know that 'oh we don't have any space for either of those, you want to try those other cunts down the road" is all that good an idea, that explicity saying we disapprove of these things even in the abstract, I don't get what the point is in terms of building broad coalitions without having to compromise at all on substance

I know there'll be valid reasons other than "oo, icky tho" but I'm not super clear on what they are

any personal interest in either I should say, but I don't feel intrinsic opposition to them particularly either

I know all countries are made up but, the UK? WTF is it and what's it for?

xp the strategic error of taking this view is playing into the hands of the Tories, and anyone impressed by Tory flag waving and talk of “patriotism” is highly unlikely to be convinced by Labour doing it, nor are they likely to buy into a vision of patriotism that includes rather than excludes. It is also bound to turn off other parts of the voter coalition.

the shor kid mentioned on the US thread is right. the tories win on 'patriotism' all day long unless there's a specific circumstance that flips it (and no, russian interference doesn't count here). the more you talk about it, the more you're on their turf. just get off it and onto subjects people prefer you on. otherwise you're dukakis in the tank.

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/2125/production/_102858480_mallett1.jpg

"progressive patriotism"

These are good answers, I definitely see what gyac says and yes if it's not convincing it becomes laughable. But that sorta then becomes the problem, if politicians wanting office within a country on some level don't actually seem to like that country...isn't that kind of weird to a lot of people?

Bernard Sanders seems to do ok at it? It's probably easier in US than UK. Is it that impossible? If you asked public if idk Gary Neville was 'patriotic' I think they'd say yes?

No need to mention you're patriotic out of the blue any more than that you're religious. If someone brings it up, a journalist say - simply reply "of course! who doubts this??" or "what a question mate! wouldn't be an MP if I weren't mate. Maaaaate."

I'm not sure how anyone can be patriotic about the UK tbh.

No need to mention you're patriotic out of the blue any more than that you're religious. If someone brings it up, a journalist say - simply reply "of course! who doubts this??

Thats more or less where I'm going, answering "Yes" as though the question is do you like the beers, and not "Well its a complex question and it really depends what you mean when you say...."

People who ask need a bit of a dressing down with it too though. I mean it's just fucking rude.

Slippery slope for Jess now. Which were the six bits of the ceremony that triggered the tears? The more patriotic bits? Or just that shit with Mr Bean? With or without the facts we will make up our own minds.

Jes(u)s weeped.

the strategic error of taking this view is playing into the hands of the Tories, and anyone impressed by Tory flag waving and talk of “patriotism” is highly unlikely to be convinced by Labour doing it, nor are they likely to buy into a vision of patriotism that includes rather than excludes. It is also bound to turn off other parts of the voter coalition.

Coming back to this, I'm not suggesting the left should turn into full kit wankers on this, or trying and compete with the Tories! But to have a baseline of "seems like they like their country and the people in it", which is a pretty low bar

If you're living next to someone that bench presses 200 pounds every day you're never going to compete with that and why would you, but going for a swim once a week is still a good idea.

It's really not much more than what nashwan posted ("of course! who doubts this??"). If I'm standing on helping the people of x, if it seems like I don't really like x how convincing am I in my message.

I don't think this needs to involve any triangulating, any compromising, any kowtowing. Seeming like you might actually like the voters and their dependants is surely a good thing unless you don't believe in electoral politics (tho electoral politics is admittedly a sham but given our general lack of mental fortitude and weaponry I'm not fancying out chances in the other side of the draw any better)

^yes. having a positive vision for britain is key. although corbyn kind of did have this! not enough people bought into it. fiendishly hard for Labour or any leftists with actual aspirations of power or influence to get 'patriotism' right tbf, as gyac says you have to kind of skirt around it and exude a vibe

Watching the making of the Olympic 2012 opening ceremony and I have weeped 6 times already. I love my country very much.

— Jess Phillips MP (@jessphillips) July 17, 2020

not that vibe

Crying at the fantastic 2012 Olympics ceremony re-reun: humour, history and a sense of our place in the world. All gone to crap in a few years. How? Why? To make a few people richer and to satisfy Putin? Thanks Johnson, Gove, Farage and Cummings... 😔 https://t.co/OiVksSXY6H

— Jon Turnbull (@jonwturnbull1) July 17, 2020

Watching the rerun of the magnificent 2012 Olympics opening ceremony on BBC1. What an inspirational portrayal of a proud country with our own queen, armed forces and flag. Then the #brexit referendum was called to regain the sovereignty we always had. We are now divided ☹️ pic.twitter.com/5HxQxWYgD2

— Nick Hopkinson #FBPE 🇬🇧🇪🇺 🔶 (@nickhopkinsonEU) July 17, 2020

TELEGRAPH FRONT PAGE: Begum ruling leads to judicial politics row #TomorrowsPapersToday pic.twitter.com/4lJ2tCXuEf

— Neil Henderson (@hendopolis) July 17, 2020

Excited to see the panel of ‘legal experts‘ they’ll put together to decide that the government is, after all, above the law.

https://flashbak.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Mascot-11.jpg

I don’t really get your point anvil, because I v much take the Connolly view on this:

Ireland, as distinct from her people, is nothing to me; and the man who is bubbling over with love for “Ireland”, and can yet pass unmoved through our streets and witness all the wrong and the suffering wrought upon the people of Ireland is, in my opinion, a fraud and a liar.

next GB olympics opening ceremony should just be the captain tom cake head with a spotlight on it for 2 hours
https://g9e6e8a4.stackpathcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Leanne-Harrys-finished-Captain-Tom-cake-1.jpg

why did she give the nose big r/popping energy

Like, how can you say you like the country and the people in it when children go hungry? How is pretending that waving a flag around means you love the country and its people more than anyone who wants its people to be fed, housed, and cared for?

I'm not saying this! I'm saying is there merit in saying "I like my country and the people who live in it, and thats why I want the children that live in it to have enough food, be housed and be cared for"? I don't think this needs 150 flags or to compete

A lot of the reasons Corbyn & Labour were considered “unpatriotic” were tied to blatant bigotry

100%. I'm in total agreement here, and the right wing media is going to hammer on this. I don't think this means need to overcompensate, but leaving the door wide open can be averted. I'm not suggesting going all in on 'patriotism' 100 (or even 10!), but enough to tick a low bar of "likes the country"

I want to be clear here I'm not talking about attempting to outdo the Tories. If this is something super high priority to a voter, fuck em, you'll never get them and its not worth the cost to attempt to do so. If this is something low priority to a voter but they want to feel it's there on some level ('would he even fight back if we were attacked?', 'do they care about British jobs?') I feel like this can be met with very little effort

(I appreciate the responding at face value on this!)

As Koogs says: it's bad that this person who has written and published books about herself can't spell 'wept'.

Worse still is the possibility it may be an affectation