POLL: Proposed FP Threshold Changes

Amateurs

I mean, you can just go on insisting that people should ~just know~ by magic, or ESP, or whatever until you’re blue in the face

true -- also, some posters are very prolific and will accrue FPs for a variety of reasons. for example, silby was blazing their way through numerous threads on different topics -- politics, economics, religion, board lawyering -- I was actually surprised they had accrued 40 FPs until I did a search-by-poster and saw how many threads they were posting on ... like, silbs was interacting with a very large number of posters overall, whereas someone who is "more niche" is less likely to garner that many because their interactions are more limited.

best was the bold tom D saying he had no idea wtf the admin log was on the 'let's discuss the admin log' thread

I had no problem believing that somehow

Me neither.

(That is only a slight dig at Tom D, who I am secretly fond of.)

Tom D would've been the most recent person banned under the proposed changes afaict. I don't want people like Tom banned

uh it was actually "ADMIN LOG WATCH 2" -- though it is actually the 3rd Admin Log watch thread

or you can actually listen to the people the board are trying to moderate, about what is effective, and what isn’t.

ime as a mod elsewhere, the people whose conduct requires the moderators to moderate them are not the people you want to listen to on the subject of effective moderation. you're just going to hear a lot of board lawyering or else plain abuse.

Uh, as a member of the ILX Bar Association I flagged that post, Aimsy.

Tom D would've been the most recent person banned under the proposed changes afaict. I don't want people like Tom banned

uh it was actually "ADMIN LOG WATCH 2" -- though it is actually the 3rd Admin Log watch thread

Presumably the first two were ADMIN LOG WATCH and ADMIN LOG WATCH 1.

Tom D would've been the most recent person banned under the proposed changes afaict. I don't want people like Tom banned

― this is my clean tone (NickB)

I haven't gone back to double check this, but I think he racked up 20 for calling crut a cunt with pretty much no provocation - so he would've just been under the new regs, and also I think a week break for that would've been plenty warranted. (He did apologise, mind you.)

xp - gyac, unless you were previously someone else, you haven't ever been banned for any length of time, correct?

If you're given a 14-day time-out, you should also be required to wear a tailor-made ILX™ Dunce Cap throughout. You must also provide pictures (at least two per day) to demonstrate your good will.

like, if we are discussing the efficacy of bans on posters, the experiences of posters that have actually been banned seem important to listen to??? Like, I'd be more swayed by opinions from LJ and Branwell (and others who haven't posted on this thread) than posters who are making assumptions without experience.

For what it's worth, just wanna say I think the mods are doing great job. Understandably difficult task indeed. Couldn't do it, myself. Kudos to them for their competence.

Yesterday I saw some questionable posts and realized I wouldn't know what action to take. On the other hand, the mods probably do. Umbrage may very well be a thing of the past with these new changes!

burrito otm!

If you're given a 14-day time-out, you should also be required to wear a tailor-made ILX™ Dunce Cap throughout. You must also provide pictures (at least two per day) to demonstrate your good will.

I was autobanned once for posting too much, that was no fahren I can tell you

I agree with the idea behind more transparency, but asking for a whole new dashboard seems a bit much - not in terms of whether it's a good idea, but just in terms of stet being the only one who can do that stuff and he's not getting paid for any of this. Seems a bit of an ask to me.

For full disclosure, I initially suggested extending the 51 period, but on reflection I favour shorter bans and have voted for such - I think when looking at pure numbers it's easy to forget how losing a mode of communication can affect someone, even if they have been acting like a proper dick.

Of yourself sporting said ILX™ Dunce Cap. My bad, should've specified that.

2xp

I was autobanned once for posting too much, that was no fahren I can tell you

correct

I think he racked up 20 for calling crut a cunt with pretty much no provocation

Mis-spoke here, he ~got up to 20~ for this, so some were from before the 30 day period. I think.

Anyway, probably better not discuss an individual poster's FP count much more than that, just wanted to clarify the point, sorry.

but asking for a whole new dashboard seems a bit much - not in terms of whether it's a good idea, but just in terms of stet being the only one who can do that stuff and he's not getting paid for any of this. Seems a bit of an ask to me.

100% agreed. Was just offering a pie-in-the-sky scenario.

thanks emil.y, i appreciate that

Hope Tom D comes back . Crut accepted the apology too, after a heated argument. Also Tom D had an argument with a poster on the UK politics thread for an hour or so a few months ago and everyone made peace and apologised with no need for intervention.

The new system will place further automation, that's for sure.

Where the fuck is "take off and nuke the planet from orbit" you monsters?

on ILAFL iirc

wassup gabbneb

even short bans will drive people away, don't know why we would want that

If people can’t deal with a 7 day ban from posting then maybe they really do need to find somewhere else to express themselves.

Nothing’s stopping anyone from registering under new usernames btw. There’s a cheap shortcut to get around every ban, it’s been used by trolls for years and years.

"If people can’t deal with a 7 day ban from posting then maybe they really do need to find somewhere else to express themselves"

but I haven't seen anyone here lately who deserves a 7 day ban! people lash out, so forgive them and move on.

I can understand banning obvious trolls like Moo Vaughn, Racoon Tanuki, Larry Appleton (although even they were entertaining), but there isn’t anybody here now that is like that as far as I can see

Then don’t FP anyone

it’s satisfying to FP others out of anger, I have done it, but I think the threshold for actually banning someone, even for a limited time, should be very high

don't agree with any change to make that more likely

Nobody wants to permaban more users. Look at the poll options, none of them even suggest permanent bans.

The point is to empower users to use FP so that mod actions are democratically supported instead of leaving the mods in this hapless DMZ where any tiny little temp ban becomes a clusterfuck unless the poster in question is so phenomenally bad they actually hit the 51 mark.

20 in 30 days is higher than you think.

No change for these poll options but I (sincerely) believe mods should be given carte-blanche to ban.

The 51s are almost never for racism, homophobia, sexism or etc., if it’s primarily about curating tone posters seem to trust the current mod team to do it.

Not opposed to FP and I guess I haven't imagined what it is from the point of view of the mods, I don't know what your restraints and reservations are and how you navigate this. maybe 20 in 30 days is ok

But I don't think silby should have banned for even 3 days, and I don't think Fred B should have been banned for a month.

also don't agree with driving posters away. I regret the loss of Οὖτις every day

I (sincerely) believe mods should be given carte-blanche to ban.

In real terms they already have such powers and have used it when necessary. If any of the options cited in the poll are instituted, the mods will still be able to insta-ban and perma-ban.

xpost It may be a problem of nomenclature. If it helps, don't think of it as a 'ban' but rather a 'time out'. Everybody needs one now and then, and people in desperate need of a timeout are not always good at knowing when to time themselves out.

I also miss shakey. Come back, shakey. Come back to us.

xp agree, but they may not return, which is not good for ilx

also don't agree with driving posters away. I regret the loss of Οὖτις every day

Was Shakey driven away? I think he made a major error in judgment with that poll and got the sense that the backlash startled the hell out of him. I think he has been a good poster here and I hope he comes back. Being told by many posters "what you did is some bullshit" is not being driven away. (Cue court reporters eager to read back the trial transcript.)

error in judgement maybe but it feels to me like he was driven away, and I don't think he will come back. with all of the policing this board is increasingly less interesting

When posters quietly leave, it’s mostly because of other posters who should have already been banned.

NB I only have anecdotal evidence for this.

Don't know that I even agree with 51 FPs as a threshold. Nobody should be banned ever, unless it's clear to all of us that they are a troll

xp tbf I didn’t know this, I use Zing so I don’t check polls on there that often

focusing on posters we know by name, and why they've left misses the big picture imo. to me it feels like common sense that if you let rampaging aggression and clusterfuck-fueling go on and on unchecked until MAYbe the person gets a timeout (through an arcane system that is not particularly visible to the casual visitor, and which in practice requires dozens of people to file complaints over months), is going to discourage tons of people from becoming posters we know by name!

i've said this before, but if we were designing ilx from the ground up and thinking "what functional and design choices would i make to make this space feel like a safe haven for civil and fun discussion, and an appealing one to newcomers," i think there's a ton of small things we would do differently. i don't mean giving the site a makeover to look more hip or otherwise lose what's special about it --- i mean stuff like, linking at the top to an faq that spells out what this place is, what kind of behavior isn't tolerated, what "flag post" does... like even at the level of a decent Usenet group FAQ circa 1993 explaining that flamewars are frowned upon etc. or like, when threads are rightfully locked for being awful and offensive, we shd probably note this at the top and in the title so a new visitor doesn't have to get to the bottom to go "oh whew, this IS or has at least BECOME the kind of place where this awfulness isn't wanted" etc...

those are just a couple of examples but i just mean, elsewhere on the internet people are actively trying to create non-toxic spaces where people feel safe, and i appreciate any efforts by the mods to do that work. we're very far from the worst space out there, obviously, but does that mean the work is done? why are the numbers here still so heavily weighted towards cis white dudes age 35 and up, when going on the internet to be nerdy about music and everything has gotten a million times more diverse in the lifetime of this site?

p.s. i recognize that i probably sound like the obnoxious uber-radical dude in every org that derails all meetings by wanting to spend another hour designing the perfect, fool-proof bylaws that will prevent capture by centrists or w/e, but IRL i hate that guy!! i just think we can love ilx and also believe that it doesn't have to be the way it's been.

Doctor C, I went on the same mental odyssey. Public policy is a rabbit hole