yeah, again I’m sorry for mischaracterizing you. I thought you were being unusually grumpy on threads since whatever happened and it was bumming me out because I like your posts usually
― All cars are bad (Euler), Monday, 26 October 2020 20:24 (three years ago) link
ILX isn't the place for any kind of dissent anymore
I find that posting a dissenting opinion or differing perspective often draws fire on ILX, but about 90% of it consists of the tactic called "label and dismiss". That sucks, but it is so damn common you just have to figure it in as inevitable.
I tend to think that if I convey my thoughts clearly enough that others are likely to understand them, then I have done what I wished to do. Their effect on others is not within my control. When I persist in posting further in response to criticism, it is generally because someone has misconstrued my idea and distorted what I hoped to convey. Then I try to repair the misconstruction and clarify my thought.
If others being critical of the conclusions you've drawn or opinions you express on ILX is something you find unwelcome or unnerving, then I guess it makes sense to stop posting them, because it isn't the job of ILXors to confine themselves validating your opinions. It's only our job to be not assholes about it, and ILX is much better at that than most of the internet.
― the unappreciated charisma of cows (Aimless), Monday, 26 October 2020 20:42 (three years ago) link
idk
― treeship., Monday, 26 October 2020 20:48 (three years ago) link
tell us what you really think, treesh. oh, sorry, you did.
― the unappreciated charisma of cows (Aimless), Monday, 26 October 2020 21:01 (three years ago) link
ILX is much better at that than most of the internet.
― the unappreciated charisma of cows (Aimless), Monday, October 26, 2020 4:42 PM (three hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
absolutely.
― Van Horn Street, Tuesday, 27 October 2020 00:00 (three years ago) link
feel like ilx should be a safe space for people to share their fantasies of the death of western civ
― Notes on "Scamp" (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 27 October 2020 00:06 (three years ago) link
I'm OK with brief generalized effusions of enmity at public figures. when the fantasies get personal, violent, and weirdly specific with ott details I have a sudden desire to not be shared with to that extent.
― the unappreciated charisma of cows (Aimless), Tuesday, 27 October 2020 00:11 (three years ago) link
One thing about France is that a lot of french people take it personally when you criticize France, no matter where they are on the political spectrum. It's not a behaviour reserved to the patriotic right like in the US or the UK. And irl (more so than here), I've find it hard to defend my views about systemic racism in France without having to justify either my love of France or something similar.
― Van Horn Street, Tuesday, 27 October 2020 00:17 (three years ago) link
It's always good to get the absolute clarity of the verbosely prevaricating (but saying fuck all of substance) Mr Logic take on acceptable ways of wishing death on bad politicians, thanx for that aimless M8!
― calzino, Tuesday, 27 October 2020 00:25 (three years ago) link
(xp) Euler isn't French yet.
― Young Boys of Bernie (Tom D.), Tuesday, 27 October 2020 00:29 (three years ago) link
you're welcome, calz.
― the unappreciated charisma of cows (Aimless), Tuesday, 27 October 2020 01:11 (three years ago) link
wow who are the 1% american posters haven't wished death on other posters, that's a really interesting statistic.
― brimstead, Tuesday, 27 October 2020 01:44 (three years ago) link
I told THE AMAZING RANDY to play in traffic once.
his last words were "HI DE-"
― Neanderthal, Tuesday, 27 October 2020 01:45 (three years ago) link
I don't think this is a peculiarity of France tbh, I've known ppl who are generally quite sound on the problems of their country get wound up when an outsider points them out all over.
― Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, 27 October 2020 10:12 (three years ago) link
a/k/a FBS, the Fred B Syndrome
― Welcome to Nonrock (breastcrawl), Tuesday, 27 October 2020 15:14 (three years ago) link
Three people have been killed in a knife attack in the French city of Nice, police say.Nice Mayor Christian Estrosi said there had been a "terrorist attack at the heart of the Notre-Dame basilica".One elderly victim who had come to pray was "virtually beheaded". The suspect was detained shortly after the attack.
Nice Mayor Christian Estrosi said there had been a "terrorist attack at the heart of the Notre-Dame basilica".
One elderly victim who had come to pray was "virtually beheaded". The suspect was detained shortly after the attack.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54729957
― A Scampo Darkly (Le Bateau Ivre), Thursday, 29 October 2020 11:30 (three years ago) link
Yeah just saw that, fucking diabolical.
― liberté, égalité, scampé (gyac), Thursday, 29 October 2020 11:35 (three years ago) link
that's horrific
― big man on scampus (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 29 October 2020 11:45 (three years ago) link
A person supposedly carrying a knife in Avignon has been killed by police, an hour after the Nice-attack.
― A Scampo Darkly (Le Bateau Ivre), Thursday, 29 October 2020 11:52 (three years ago) link
carrying waving
― A Scampo Darkly (Le Bateau Ivre), Thursday, 29 October 2020 11:53 (three years ago) link
― Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, October 27, 2020 6:12 AM (two days ago) bookmarkflaglink
Happens to me (an outsider) here in Netherlands all the time.
― SQUIRREL MEAT!! (Capitaine Jay Vee), Thursday, 29 October 2020 12:52 (three years ago) link
I’m glad we’re going into lockdown tomorrow, because attacks like these today are terrifying, as is their intent, and the global boycotts and protests against France are fanning the flame. Lockdown means fewer people out hopefully. Another person who told his father he was going to “do like in Nice” has just been arrested in Sartrouville. There is no exit from this.
― All cars are bad (Euler), Thursday, 29 October 2020 14:28 (three years ago) link
Apart from a new political settlement and social compact with religious minorities and immigrants you meanBut that’s not on offerI reckon FN is inevitable, frankly
― Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 29 October 2020 15:17 (three years ago) link
Last night the Sénat debated the loi de programmation pluriannuelle de la recherche (LPPR) that has been the target of so much anger against the Macron government by academics. The first six articles were approved, having already been approved by the Assemblée Nationale last month. But the Sénat decided to add to the law that « Les libertés académiques s’exercent dans le respect des valeurs de la République », singling out laïcité as one such value. I do not mean to approve or disapprove of this law here---that is a much broader and at the same time more provincial subject than terrorist attacks in Europe---but simply to note this addition to the law is an astonishing revision of academic freedom in France, and that no changes of the sort you are describing, Tracer Hand, are forthcoming any time soon.
― All cars are bad (Euler), Thursday, 29 October 2020 15:33 (three years ago) link
No one should be killed during prayer. I know it’s obvious, but I’m hurting.
― Van Horn Street, Thursday, 29 October 2020 15:49 (three years ago) link
Meanwhile, the man who was until February prime minister of Malaysia today promoted genocide against French people, as a response to the colonial crimes of France. "The French in the course of their history has killed millions of people. Many were Muslims. Muslims have a right to be angry and to kill millions of French people for the massacres of the past."
― All cars are bad (Euler), Thursday, 29 October 2020 15:55 (three years ago) link
As a general rule, I don't take a beheading as an opportunity to contemplate whether the beheader may have a point about certain things. I used to engage in that exercise, but I don't anymore. I'm not giving the views someone who beheads a woman in church any space in my mind.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 29 October 2020 16:03 (three years ago) link
former PM of malaysia might want to double-check his koran on that one
― Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 29 October 2020 16:04 (three years ago) link
and the colonial history of Islam.
― Van Horn Street, Thursday, 29 October 2020 16:38 (three years ago) link
man alive otm
― treeship., Thursday, 29 October 2020 16:43 (three years ago) link
Not a single post itt has been about saying the murderers "have a point".
― Daniel_Rf, Thursday, 29 October 2020 16:46 (three years ago) link
If you take the opportunity of a beheading to discuss grievances in some way connected to that beheading that's what you're doing
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 29 October 2020 16:47 (three years ago) link
Apart from a new political settlement and social compact with religious minorities and immigrants you meanBut that’s not on offerI reckon FN is inevitable, frankly― Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Thursday, October 29, 2020 11:17 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink
But that’s not on offer
I reckon FN is inevitable, frankly
― Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Thursday, October 29, 2020 11:17 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink
i don't know if a more pluralistic and tolerant france would prevent fanatics from murdering people. i think it is good to move that way for its own sake though.
― treeship., Thursday, 29 October 2020 16:48 (three years ago) link
No, it's not, and it's asinine to suggest that. Analysing the factors that lead to a societal ill is not equivalent to defending that societal ill; it's looking at how to prevent it from happening again.
― Daniel_Rf, Thursday, 29 October 2020 16:49 (three years ago) link
xpost
ok so it *is*true that alienation can drive people into the hands of fanatic groups, so it's better to create a society where alienation is less common. but it's also important to keep in mind that the terrorists aren't multiculturalist liberals who just "broke," they are religious fanatics killing infidels
― treeship., Thursday, 29 October 2020 16:52 (three years ago) link
Said it before, will say it again. The current approach isn’t working, do you clowns have any ideas that aren’t either dogwhistling send-em-back sentiment or what?
― liberté, égalité, scampé (gyac), Thursday, 29 October 2020 16:53 (three years ago) link
"a more pluralistic and tolerant france... it is good to move that way for its own sake though."
this is my position gyac
― treeship., Thursday, 29 October 2020 16:54 (three years ago) link
i'm not "dog-whistling" mass deportation. like, jesus
― treeship., Thursday, 29 October 2020 16:55 (three years ago) link
but it's also important to keep in mind that the terrorists aren't multiculturalist liberals who just "broke," they are religious fanatics killing infidels
Really feel like you're arguing with a strawman here treesh. No one is under the delusion that the killers used to be "multiculturalist liberals", it's just about acknowledging that fanatism, of any stripe, doesn't exist in a vacuum.
― Daniel_Rf, Thursday, 29 October 2020 16:56 (three years ago) link
she wasn’t talking to you treesh
― sound of scampo talk to me (El Tomboto), Thursday, 29 October 2020 16:56 (three years ago) link
I’m absolutely never talking to you treeship given that I have you blocked, so don’t waste your breath.
― liberté, égalité, scampé (gyac), Thursday, 29 October 2020 16:57 (three years ago) link
― treeship., Thursday, October 29, 2020 11:52 AM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
OTM. I'm all for increasing tolerance, reducing alienation and economic immiseration, etc., but I don't think you can treat violent fundamentalists as though they are just plants and the failings of larger society were the soil, seed, water and light.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 29 October 2020 16:58 (three years ago) link
fanaticism exists in the long tail of human experience and behavior. it won't necessarily disappear if you change the distribution or shift the median. I think treeship is saying it's a bit gross to use shit in the long tail as leverage to argue for the shifts in median/distribution that we all want anyway.
― The Beige of Dadz (Sufjan Grafton), Thursday, 29 October 2020 16:58 (three years ago) link
If you think it’s a coincidence that it happens more in France than elsewhere I have a bridge to sell on la Loire.
― Van Horn Street, Thursday, 29 October 2020 16:59 (three years ago) link
this shit gets funded by oil billionaires from other countries, it doesn't just spring from between cracks in the sidewalk
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 29 October 2020 16:59 (three years ago) link
lol well good luck getting the west to give up its dependence on cheap oil to maintain our way of life, if it were up to me I would have shifted to renewables decades ago to cut the legs from KSA as well as benefiting the planet but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
― liberté, égalité, scampé (gyac), Thursday, 29 October 2020 17:01 (three years ago) link
your relentless attempt to make a woman's beheading into the fruit of the west's original sin is gross
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 29 October 2020 17:02 (three years ago) link
Might be a good idea to stop making it easier for them tho, no?
― Daniel_Rf, Thursday, 29 October 2020 17:03 (three years ago) link
What a fucking lie, but it’s not as though you can actually refute the point of why KSA is rich in the first place so.
― liberté, égalité, scampé (gyac), Thursday, 29 October 2020 17:04 (three years ago) link