ForenSix Opposition - Politics in the Soon To Be Former UK in Autumn 2020

i remember arguing back during the Blair years that there really wasn't a golden age Labour Party and that even the 1945 government was a kind of historical fluke calz.

thing is, we can know all this stuff, but you never quite give up caring. i think that's *probably* good? just about? as long as you don't let the selfish melt cunts ruin you

For the avoidance of doubt I'm not saying he's antisemitic but there's a self-destructive tone-deafness at play here.

― Matt DC, Thursday, 29 October 2020 14:44 (nineteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Its genuinely unfortunate but he's kind of a dimwit

Purges in the PLP and on LJ's Charlton forum alike, what dark days.

A split or a new party wouldn't accomplish much, but I'd really like to see mass organised abstentions from the left, starting with the Mayor and council elections next year.

ILX is within the limits of my internet comfort zone but I am absolutely astonished that anyone would want to discuss this on a football forum right now.

everyone's the insane far-left firebrand somewhere ;)

lol fuck the greens

I think its interesting the way in which the idea of conspiracy has been so conveniently invalidated in mainstream discourses as though it was the same as a 'conspiracy theory.' There are literally criminal charges that exist regarding conspiracy to commit certain crimes etc and things like corruption and fraud (which are clearly part of the contemporary political/business landscape) are by their nature conspiratorial. And we as outsiders can never *fully* know and are likely to speculate on this and that connection. I think this is inherently different from the thing known as 'conspiracy theories' which are real and which I'm sure we've all had some misguided family member or co-worker blather at us for hours while we try to change the subject.

Its just very interesting that conspiracy theories have become so prominently dismissed by a media/political class that is defined by its insiderishness and matiness (which can, to those outside of the backchannels of power, feel intensely conpiratorial). It seems obvious that the attempts to undermine sanders followed much the same formulas as corbyn: "unelectable"! and then, in corbyn's case, the more efficacious antisemtism allegations. (it seemed really bizarre when this first started on sanders, I imagine this will be more successful when he's out of the frame and the focus has shifted even more to omar/tlaib/etc) In the instance of sanders it was clear there was a conspiracy (the klobuchar/buttigeig announcements, seemingly *orchestrated* by obama).

But you know, there are conspiracies. People do conspire! There was clearly a large will to use the real issue of antisemitism for political gain by longstanding enemies of corbyn specifically and the left more generally. And i'm sure there was some element of people, you know, conspiring. I myself have conspired. With friends and colleagues. not to undermine the left or to bring about a new world order. smaller scale conspiracies. There was literally a widely reported plot whereby large numbers of the plp resigned from posts en masse. This is hardly chemtrails, its fairly innocuous stuff, but there was definitely plotting one the part of the right throughout this. And not by *jews* but by cynical pr men like chuka umunna. peter mandelsohn said that he was working to undermine the corbyn leadership every day.

We used to just take this stuff for granted, that this was the mean stuff, the murkier stuff in politics that maybe had to be read between the lines. all the little knives in the back. Like in that shitty program with ian richardson that people think is good. It does feel like one of the more subtle line that's been drawn is that we're no longer supposed to talk about it. sorry if this is a bit "these days if you say x you'll be put in jail" tho

sorry i guess that could have stayed in my head

No it was relevant and true

A split or a new party wouldn't accomplish much, but I'd really like to see mass organised abstentions from the left, starting with the Mayor and council elections next year.

Could you explain further? At first glance it feels like this would have the same results of creating a new party but with less leverage.

An organised abstention by Labour voters -- as opposed to a private choice by individuals, some of whom were members -- that delivered heavier defeats in the North West and London councils is a way of saying that you really can't take our votes for granted. That is way if creating leverage to me.

That it won't happen shows what we know, that there is v little in the way of militancy, but we need more of that because this won't do.

Lab will be garbage for Muslims too so why not organise abstentions with Muslim groups? Other BAME groups too.

I figure that even if it's an organized effort media would still spin it as "well the numbers aren't really about that, voters stayed home because labour is still tarnished by the Corbyn era" - and clearly the party cares more about keeping the left down than it does about winning elections.

It's not about what media do or don't say. That matters less than building an organized movement that will do things as a disciplined bloc.

As it is, a lot of good left-wing ppl are going to vote for Starmer to keep the Tories out lol because they are evil, like Donald Trump.

sounds like something a party would do

i have to say, stay and abstain sounds like warped starmerism to me

like weirdly the worst of both worlds. I don't know how you can have an organised bloc based around that. surely one thing corbyn got right was to have a vision that people felt invested in, in part because it was backed up by a policy narrative (albeit one that unravelled at the last election)

More like an organised campaign. It could come from people that organise in Trade Unions. I liked that Unite were decreasing their contributions to the party, for example.

hello user gyac and the lads. have been too busy lately mostly doing a nervous breakdown but wouldn't miss today for the world. lovely stuff so far

thumbsup emoji

hope yr feeling better sadlol

^ Yes

It's not about what media do or don't say. That matters less than building an organized movement that will do things as a disciplined bloc.

An actual party would at least provide concrete evidence to these "good left-wing ppl" you speak of that there's another way while a gesture of abstention that can be spun a thousand ways would not.

sry to hear about yr nervy b user barcode, but we’re here for you!

Keir Starmer vs Page 27 of the EHRC Report pic.twitter.com/3l9vi9WD4E

— jewdⒶs // ייִדהודה (@jewdas) October 29, 2020

think this backs up what SV is saying about Starmer explicitly making out that what Corbyn said was denialism itself.

Best of luck to ILX User Radiator/Zebra, hope you're doing OK.

^ thinking of you, lines and dots

yeah, all the best to user barcode in this difficult times

hoping you have some Smiths scampo-based snacks to hand in this difficult time

An actual party would at least provide concrete evidence to these "good left-wing ppl" you speak of that there's another way while a gesture of abstention that can be spun a thousand ways would not.

― Daniel_Rf, Thursday, 29 October 2020 bookmarkflaglink

There is very little way under this system as it is and anything that's organised is more powerful than a mere gesture.

Good to see you barold, be well

Suggestions on Twitter that the Corbyn statement was pre-agreed with the LOTO office.

Absolutely seething that you gazumped me ffs.

Isn’t this what they did with RLB?

I’ve heard from a reliable chain of people that comments made at JC’s press conference were the reason and statement was OKed by LOTO.

wait, so if i've got this right: loto was consistently called on to intervene, tom watson made moves to forcefully intervene in ways that would have broken gdpr, and those interventions to expedite the complaints process are the main finding of wrongdoing by the report.

I have to say the report is suspiciously *vaguely* worded throughout: so interference is simply described as interference throughout, often in ways that implies that interference sought to obstruct rather than expedite processes. The leaked report showed examples of attempts to expedite processes in the face of a wilfully obstructive hq team, how to overcome these problems then?

Frustratingly and it seems intentionally vague is how this whole saga has been from the start.

I’m told NEC members in an ongoing meeting are asking which rule was breached by Corbyn today – the specific reason for his suspension – but gen sec David Evans not saying. (Starmer not on the call.)

— Sienna Rodgers (@siennamarla) October 29, 2020

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ElhTERYXIAcnLes?format=png&name=900x900

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/oct/28/england-coronavirus-covid-test-and-trace-teenagers?

What a calamity

St*rmer, how do you forensically suspend somebody from the party challenge

Nandy came out with that old nugget "anti-Semitism is a form of racism that punches up" again on PM earlier. I don't care what she was actually trying to say and it unfortunately came out wrong etc.. She's consistently a clumsy communicator and a nasty bigot, who never seems to fail to muddy the waters and end up sounding like a dumb racist tory every time she goes off-piste.

The Guardian has published a cartoon of a beheading, in which Jeremy Corbyn is portrayed as the martyr St John the Baptist [at the court of King Herod]

There are at least two big reasons to question the editorial judgement, in terms of the content and the timing (France) too.

— Sunder Katwala (@sundersays) October 29, 2020

Holy shit, that is... I mean who the hell OK'ed that one?

for fuck’s sake

Liberals xp

unbelievable

Looking forward to the whole company doing sensitivity training

it's almost like they have a very laissez faire no-standards-apply attitude when it comes to attacking an already deposed LOTO of the left.

it's amazing some far-right headcase never murdered jez. It's always easier to attack someone who is frequently on a push iron rather than the man in the hench car who is cosplaying Death Race 2000

the murdoch press has been literally goading anyone who might be inclined for years now so yeah surprising it hasn't happened already