Mostly Apolitical Thread for Discussing/Venting our Rational/Irrational COVID-19 Fears and Experiences in 2020

it is not a binary thing and some individual decisions matter more and have greater consequences than others, is that okay

You can pick one and stick with it to the best of your ability, if you so wish. But on a more abstract level, it makes for an interesting philosophical debate:

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/compatibilism/

I mean, the idea that it isn't a binary thing does not seem too far-fetched, but the options according to The Discourse do not allow for it

like, for instance, everyone today is saying "your personal set of circumstances for traveling doesn't matter, you're still wrong for doing it and you should not do it and if people shame you for it, you deserved it," which seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to think. however, when the exact same people, a few weeks ago, were saying "don't shame people for their individual decisions, the government has created this crisis, individual decisions do not make a difference in that context and you're just looking for a reason to shame others, karen," I don't know how to reconcile that. I just don't. especially since both of these are prescriptive things. they are telling you what to do and what to think.

What dyou think yourself

I don't fucking know, but I also know that I am also not equipped to know, because another thing you are not supposed to do is pretend that you know the answer instead of listening to others (see: nate silver)

Humans aren't particularly self-consistent. They change their minds and contradict themselves all the time. It's always been like this.

xps - let me clear up any possible confusion. individual decisions matter because that is the nature of infectious diseases. governments can educate, assist, and attempt to regulate the decisions of individuals via various degrees of coercion. and these government measures can be confusing, misleading, misguided, or ineffective quite apart from the question of whether the doofus next door is wrong to ignore those measures.

and all this combined with the parallel "it is always wrong to snitch" discourse which would seem to be logically incompatible with the "shaming people for things they said about traveling" discourse, as well

id say theres an inbetween course that could be navigated, or that whatever decisions between the two extremes you make in each context that arises will be fine

What more can one do

Agreed, Aimless, but I'd add "negligent" and "homicidal" to the description of government (in)action.

What is The Discourse?

It’s the only thing that matters!

it's truly impressive that you can do this bit about anything from a pop album to a fucking pandemic

sorry? I shouldn't have said anything I guess. I really just am trying to do the right thing

Have you considered religion

It’s certainly not a worse way of figuring out the right way to live than “what some people posting today happen to say”

is that a serious question

Yes

then the serious answer is yes but but for some combination of "I would have to believe something that is morally abhorrent," "I would have to experience some profound mystical revelation/transcendent state that I have not, even when the religion said it was impossible not to," and "I would have to believe I am going to hell, in which case, why not just skip the middleman"

Allow me to suggest liberal Judaism, where the first two are at worst optional and the third is certainly absent. Downside is the conversion process has much more homework than Islam, which could suit your needs but I am in less of a position to recommend.

except that if I think the wrong thing I doubt explaining that I converted to a religion would make people understand

See when you have a religion it doesn’t matter what other people think anymore only what god thinks.

Whose advice do you trust, exactly? Whose do you distrust? Is 'mine' ever an answer to the first question for you?

I don't trust anybody's advice since so much of it contradictory, but I know that everyone thinks everyone is obligated to trust their advice

There's something to be said about weighing the pros and cons and then owning your decision regardless of what a person on the internet thinks.

like with the covid thing I got lucky that "you have an obligation to go out and ~support the economy~" never got that much traction, so staying inside/quarantined was a relatively safe option that nobody could object to

There's plenty of internet outrage for anything you may choose to do in life. At a certain point it becomes so much white noise.

until you do something wrong and become the target of it

Are you required to broadcast all your personal decisions online?

no, which is why I largely don't, because I just don't know what all the rules are, there are more every day, and more contradictions in them are also created every day

Generally speaking, wearing masks and avoiding sustained contact, indoors or outdoors, with people outside your trusted zone -- this works.

Agree, but beyond that I'm not sure where the lines are. My family and friends are all thinking about this rationally but have come to different conclusions about how to act.

right, and about what the acceptable ways to act are, and how much one should criticize others for acting

iirc the real question during this crisis is whether or not it’s appropriate to eat shallot pasta

I just don't know what all the rules are

Here is the crux. You expect rules in these cases, but rules require agreement. Because there is no agreement upon he rules among the people you are citing, there are no rules that apply consistently within those groups upon those subjects

it's the same people

who are they

probably a lot of people you know

xp --

Here is the crux. You expect rules in these cases

yes, because whenever somebody screenshots a tweet of somebody who said something wrong, there is the implicit statement that they broke a rule about how to behave and are being punished for doing so

or the criticism that I am getting for saying anything is, itself, evidence that I broke a rule in bringing this up, which I apologize for

Ok here’s another question

Have you considered BDSM

what exactly makes you think that is an appropriate question to ask someone you don't know

agree with katherine in wondering about how to make decisions

who is in your trusted zone and how do you decide which friends/family are you going to let into your life?

what if your trusted friend has been really careful but now has an adult child visiting for the holidays, will you see them?

You should use your best judgment and not worry about whether the internet will approve one way or another

katherine, I notice you often post such anxious questions, but you never seem to pay attention to the answers you get.

you never seem to pay attention to the answers you get.

allow me to amend this. rather, when it is pointed out to you that humans are seldom rational, but engage in large numbers of behaviors that are irrational, impulsive, greedy, thoughtless, or based in mistaken impressions, poor understanding, bad data, or plain impulsiveness - to mention just a few behaviors which cannot be explained as the result of a rational process - you seem incapable of incorporating this information into your assessment of the problem.

probably a lot of people you know

wow fuck those guys!

what if your trusted friend has been really careful but now has an adult child visiting for the holidays, will you see them?

no, that's idiotic.

who is in your trusted zone and how do you decide which friends/family are you going to let into your life?

what if your trusted friend has been really careful but now has an adult child visiting for the holidays, will you see them?

if “trust” is one of your variables you are doing it wrong.

allow me to amend this. rather, when it is pointed out to you that humans are seldom rational, but engage in large numbers of behaviors that are irrational, impulsive, greedy, thoughtless, or based in mistaken impressions, poor understanding, bad data, or plain impulsiveness - to mention just a few behaviors which cannot be explained as the result of a rational process - you seem incapable of incorporating this information into your assessment of the problem.

― Respectfully Yours, (Aimless), Sunday, December 20, 2020 11:39 PM (nine minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

because if I do something wrong and become a target, then trying to explain "please stop, humans are seldom rational so how was I supposed to know" is highly unlikely to go over well.