Mostly Apolitical Thread for Discussing/Venting our Rational/Irrational COVID-19 Fears and Experiences in 2020

What is The Discourse?

It’s the only thing that matters!

it's truly impressive that you can do this bit about anything from a pop album to a fucking pandemic

sorry? I shouldn't have said anything I guess. I really just am trying to do the right thing

Have you considered religion

It’s certainly not a worse way of figuring out the right way to live than “what some people posting today happen to say”

is that a serious question

Yes

then the serious answer is yes but but for some combination of "I would have to believe something that is morally abhorrent," "I would have to experience some profound mystical revelation/transcendent state that I have not, even when the religion said it was impossible not to," and "I would have to believe I am going to hell, in which case, why not just skip the middleman"

Allow me to suggest liberal Judaism, where the first two are at worst optional and the third is certainly absent. Downside is the conversion process has much more homework than Islam, which could suit your needs but I am in less of a position to recommend.

except that if I think the wrong thing I doubt explaining that I converted to a religion would make people understand

See when you have a religion it doesn’t matter what other people think anymore only what god thinks.

Whose advice do you trust, exactly? Whose do you distrust? Is 'mine' ever an answer to the first question for you?

I don't trust anybody's advice since so much of it contradictory, but I know that everyone thinks everyone is obligated to trust their advice

There's something to be said about weighing the pros and cons and then owning your decision regardless of what a person on the internet thinks.

like with the covid thing I got lucky that "you have an obligation to go out and ~support the economy~" never got that much traction, so staying inside/quarantined was a relatively safe option that nobody could object to

There's plenty of internet outrage for anything you may choose to do in life. At a certain point it becomes so much white noise.

until you do something wrong and become the target of it

Are you required to broadcast all your personal decisions online?

no, which is why I largely don't, because I just don't know what all the rules are, there are more every day, and more contradictions in them are also created every day

Generally speaking, wearing masks and avoiding sustained contact, indoors or outdoors, with people outside your trusted zone -- this works.

Agree, but beyond that I'm not sure where the lines are. My family and friends are all thinking about this rationally but have come to different conclusions about how to act.

right, and about what the acceptable ways to act are, and how much one should criticize others for acting

iirc the real question during this crisis is whether or not it’s appropriate to eat shallot pasta

I just don't know what all the rules are

Here is the crux. You expect rules in these cases, but rules require agreement. Because there is no agreement upon he rules among the people you are citing, there are no rules that apply consistently within those groups upon those subjects

it's the same people

who are they

probably a lot of people you know

xp --

Here is the crux. You expect rules in these cases

yes, because whenever somebody screenshots a tweet of somebody who said something wrong, there is the implicit statement that they broke a rule about how to behave and are being punished for doing so

or the criticism that I am getting for saying anything is, itself, evidence that I broke a rule in bringing this up, which I apologize for

Ok here’s another question

Have you considered BDSM

what exactly makes you think that is an appropriate question to ask someone you don't know

agree with katherine in wondering about how to make decisions

who is in your trusted zone and how do you decide which friends/family are you going to let into your life?

what if your trusted friend has been really careful but now has an adult child visiting for the holidays, will you see them?

You should use your best judgment and not worry about whether the internet will approve one way or another

katherine, I notice you often post such anxious questions, but you never seem to pay attention to the answers you get.

you never seem to pay attention to the answers you get.

allow me to amend this. rather, when it is pointed out to you that humans are seldom rational, but engage in large numbers of behaviors that are irrational, impulsive, greedy, thoughtless, or based in mistaken impressions, poor understanding, bad data, or plain impulsiveness - to mention just a few behaviors which cannot be explained as the result of a rational process - you seem incapable of incorporating this information into your assessment of the problem.

probably a lot of people you know

wow fuck those guys!

what if your trusted friend has been really careful but now has an adult child visiting for the holidays, will you see them?

no, that's idiotic.

who is in your trusted zone and how do you decide which friends/family are you going to let into your life?

what if your trusted friend has been really careful but now has an adult child visiting for the holidays, will you see them?

if “trust” is one of your variables you are doing it wrong.

allow me to amend this. rather, when it is pointed out to you that humans are seldom rational, but engage in large numbers of behaviors that are irrational, impulsive, greedy, thoughtless, or based in mistaken impressions, poor understanding, bad data, or plain impulsiveness - to mention just a few behaviors which cannot be explained as the result of a rational process - you seem incapable of incorporating this information into your assessment of the problem.

― Respectfully Yours, (Aimless), Sunday, December 20, 2020 11:39 PM (nine minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

because if I do something wrong and become a target, then trying to explain "please stop, humans are seldom rational so how was I supposed to know" is highly unlikely to go over well.

Has this thread been tested for lead paint?

how is trust not important? I guess I'm doing it wrong

if the problem is you getting shouted at for traveling during the worst part of the pandemic, then either a) don't travel or b) don't publicly announce that you are traveling

if the problem is you staying home and thinking the government sucks, then the people yelling at you are wrong

because if I do something wrong and become a target

you all make it seem so neat an uncomplicated, but it's not

^

it really is not uncomplicated, especially given the fact that "individual decisions don't matter and it's wrong to think they do" and "individual decisions do matter and it's wrong to make the wrong ones" are coexistent mandates

these are mandates that you are imagining, though. nobody with authority is issuing them, and you can dismiss literally every single nonentity issuing them by pointing out to each of them that they issued a contradictory opinion previously.

how is trust not important? I guess I'm doing it wrong

if you trust that someone has been safe, and that person has visitors who have spent days traveling across an infected planet to get to them, then you probably are trusting wrongly, yes

you can choose to take the risk that the visitors have not picked up an infection on the way, or the risk that if they have, you will not get it, or that if you do get it, you won't pass it on to anyone else. but the trust is irrelevant.

(I might catch it if I go to the shops and buy food! It's a risk. But not eating food also comes with a risk, and hanging out without a mask in the home of some rando I meet at the supermarket is a higher risk than passing them while masked and putting some vegetables and nuts in a basket.)

if I do something wrong and become a target

when people are acting irrationally or selfishly you can just as easily do something right and become a target.

this is a common dilemma. it can only be resolved by making a choice that is within your power to enact and how others react to that is beyond your control. if you cannot choose until you can accurately predict with certainty that which is only in the control of often irrational actors, based on imponderable factors, then choice becomes impossible and so does action. if your perception is that it's possible you may be attacked for anything you do and this freezes you in fear and doubt, then that is going to shut you down entirely in every case and there is no solution for that until you find the courage to act in spite of fear and doubt. sorry. that's life as it is experienced by everyone.

the courage to act in spite of fear and doubt

this is extremely unhelpful language in the circs btw

provide better words then. i'm doing my best.

"if you trust that someone has been safe, and that person has visitors who have spent days traveling across an infected planet to get to them, then you probably are trusting wrongly, yes"

I agree. I’ve had only one friend I’ve seen in person in the last ten months - only one - no spouse or child or sibling or parents or other family members or friends. and now I don’t feel like I can even see her. it feels harsh