everybody on ilx complains about reddit

you can't pay someone less than minimum wage just because it says you're going to do it in the contract they sign

i know all of our marketing materials say one thing but look over here at the fine print it says another... checkmate

👀

Americans are told to invest in the market. But when they start to threaten the profits of billionaires, strange things happen.
If anyone on Wall Street with short positions in particular stocks used their power to cut off the public from buying those stocks, send them to prison.

— Ilhan Omar (@IlhanMN) January 28, 2021

i am not a contract lawyer but iirc whether terms and conditions are binding is not an easy question, they are not "basically meaningless," and it is not "how the law works." in fact the one thing i remember most from contracts class is my professor castigating people who said or wrote the word "clearly" in anything.

paying someone less than minimum wage is a great example of a statute or regulation superseding terms of a contract! do the statutes/regs say an app can't do this? i mean i hope so but that would not mean t&c are meaningless.

exactly what a lawyer would say!

a little cruel to post tweets on ilx in which squad members agree with reddit posters. like the part in infinite jest where the stoner's phone and doorbell ring at the same time.

The case that the SEC _might_ end up looking closely at the Reddit side of this trade is laid out pretty clearly here under "But is it securities fraud?" in Levine's Tuesday newsletter https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-01-26/will-wallstreetbets-face-sec-scrutiny-after-gamestop-rally

Levine is not buying it, but he's not not buying it. The SEC will take a look, and that might have been enough for Robinhood to say "cutting these people off and getting sued is less risky than not cutting these people off and being investigated by the SEC".

I mean clearly fuck them, as AOC and Ilhan Omar says, but it's not an irrational thing for them to do.

there are probably certain circumstances where a brokerage can prevent someone from buying and other circumstances where they can't. like robin hood probably wouldn't be allowed to sell a bunch of its users' stocks because doing so profited them. i mean, maybe, but it seems like they would have to prove that they took this action to protect the consumer in some way. (that is what they claim in the message -- that it was too risky of a position for the user).

paying someone less than minimum wage is a great example of a statute or regulation superseding terms of a contract! do the statutes/regs say an app can't do this? i mean i hope so but that would not mean t&c are meaningless.

― superdeep borehole (harbl), Thursday, January 28, 2021 4:38 PM (three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

i agree with this. i just don't think quoting the T&C on a message board is sufficient to settle the issue.

i think we should argue about what basically meaningless means in this context

explain

i can't read that bloomberg argument but there is nothing to see on the subreddit for the SEC. Like they would have to try very hard and it would be intimidation more than anything.

i can't read that bloomberg argument but there is nothing to see on the subreddit for the SEC. Like they would have to try very hard and it would be intimidation more than anything.

― Yerac, Thursday, January 28, 2021 4:46 PM (twenty-one seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink

great plugin btw, they have one for firefox too https://github.com/iamadamdev/bypass-paywalls-chrome

I am not a contract lawyer but iirc whether terms and conditions are binding is not an easy question, they are not "basically meaningless," and it is not "how the law works." in fact the one thing i remember most from contracts class is my professor castigating people who said or wrote the word "clearly" in anything.

paying someone less than minimum wage is a great example of a statute or regulation superseding terms of a contract! do the statutes/regs say an app can't do this? i mean i hope so but that would not mean t&c are meaningless.

― superdeep borehole (harbl), Thursday, January 28, 2021 4:38 PM (six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Basically, if Robinhood did their T&C correctly and kept records of each users acceptance of those T&C, then they are enforceable.

https://bostonbarjournal.com/2019/06/06/look-before-you-click-the-enforceability-of-website-and-smartphone-app-terms-and-conditions/

Both unknowns right now, but not, "meaningless".

sigh! lol

i am going to get lag∞n disbarred

there might be some relation to them and Citadel (the fund that loaned Melvin money) taking user info for their own trades but i haven't had time to confirm anything.

― Yerac, Thursday, January 28, 2021 2:50 PM (one hour ago)

robinhood trades are routed through citadel and citadel pays robinhood for order flow so citadel can frontrun the trades. this is how RH makes money and how RH offers no fee trading.

there are (twitter) rumors floating around that citadel reloaded their shorts before all the brokerages restricted trading on GME, AMC and others - basically a turkey shoot.

i should clarify that the citadel that trades for its own account is separate from the citadel that clears trades / acts as market maker, but all is ultimately owned by ken griffey jr.

lol, is lag∞n a lawyer?

yeah i saw all that but i just always go by the assumption things are rumors unless confirmed.

the new short thing does make sense because a huge block of puts were bought and the short rate went up a bit right before everyone started getting locked out of each broker.

after Kelly Loefeller got away with making a ton of cash liquidating stock last year because she had inside info on how bad COVID-19 was gonna get I've pretty much assumed there was no such thing as stock crimes for millionaires, sorry folks

anyway robinhoods tos isnt going to stop any lawsuits and its unlikely to decide any, now if their business/marketing practices are well aligned with their tos fine, but if theyre talking out of both sides of their mouth then theres a good chance a judge or a jury is going to find the tos to be... basically meaningless

lol, is lag∞n a lawyer?

― Smokahontas and John Spliff (PBKR), Thursday, January 28, 2021 4:55 PM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

i am most certainly not

brb just writing up a tos that says i can do whatever i want

here's my tos: fuck you

"the LAW-goon" would be a bad but interesting name for a legal blog

not interesting. plausible. it could exist.

my website says that i am nice and here to help you, and in fact the name of it is the website by a nice guy, but in my tos it says actually i am mean and will hurt you

oh i dont have a tos am i supposed to

if a jury decides this case i will pay you a million dollars

I think your desire to see those in power get theirs (which I share) is clouding your judgment of the possibility of that happening (exceedingly remote).

lol xp

idk guys this seems like an obvious case of market manipulation

The most shocking thing to me is that the T&C don't have a mandatory individual arbitration clause. Did those get outlawed or something?

https://www.reddit.com/r/ClassActionRobinHood/comments/l723kf/robinhood_insider_information/

letting people sell a stock but not buy it in an attempt to protect one or more third parties, including probably citadel who they are in business with?

I think your desire to see those in power get theirs (which I share) is clouding your judgment of the possibility of that happening (exceedingly remote).

― Smokahontas and John Spliff (PBKR), Thursday, January 28, 2021 5:05 PM (three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

financial services companies pay prob billions of dollars in civil settlements every year, its quite common, cost of doing business, as harbl said almost never sees a courtroom

doesnt constitute those in power getting theirs, nor did i ever think it did

treeesh, and if that all were true, you think they would somehow be held liable? Fucking lol, no way.

They literally atomized the entire world economy almost 13 years ago and how many individuals went to jail? 5?

i like to get those class action emails that say i can have a $5 coupon if i respond by x date, gives me a good feeling about class actions coming out good for anyone except lawyers

i cashed one in one time as a lark cant remember what it was got $7

steve cohen has been charged and pled guilty before, he can get charged and plead guilty every year while wearing the mr met hat.

its true the mr met hat is more powerful than even a tos

if a jury decides this case i will pay you a million dollars

― superdeep borehole (harbl), Thursday, January 28, 2021 5:03 PM (twelve minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

this is def a contract tho

this my bløg needs a TOC please

i like to get those class action emails that say i can have a $5 coupon if i respond by x date, gives me a good feeling about class actions coming out good for anyone except lawyers

― superdeep borehole (harbl), Thursday, January 28, 2021 5:11 PM (four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

i cashed one in one time as a lark cant remember what it was got $7

― lag∞n, Thursday, January 28, 2021 5:12 PM (four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

No shit, my biggest class action windfall was as a result of shenanigans relating to marketing of bar review courses. My wife and I each got $250 about 10 years after we took the bar.

this my bløg needs a TOC please

― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Thursday, January 28, 2021 5:18 PM (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink

all readers owe me $5, reoccurring annually

i got $28 from sirius xm because they left me voicemail when the free sirius xm trial that came with our car expired. i do not even check my voicemail.

ps hi 龜!!!