Marvel Cinematic Universe, Phase 4 & Beyond (and a chance to change your vote)

*starred Evan Peters

suggest Wanda's power to run the show isn't limitless

Curious what will happen to her control now that she's apparently expanded her town significantly.

xxp They originally published it, but it’s creator-owned.

The entire point of the line was that it was even more substantially creator-owned than Epic

Agnes most confusing to me, maybe. Was she just a red herring all along?

Did I catch that Monica hinted against about an engineer ringer she's expecting?

She said in the previous ep she was going to call someone (an astroengineer?) without any more detail on who it was. Lots of chat about a SWORD character, and an out-there theory it's Reed Richards and this is the back door for the FF to join *this* 616.

Pietro seems very much to be acting as Wanda's conscience in this, forcing her to acknowledge the immorality of what she's doing (and, let's face it, I know how invested some are in Mephisto or some other bad guy doing it but the chances of it not being all Wanda diminish with every second that airs). The multiverse aspects of it being the X-Movies Pietro definitely the most interesting aspect and the one that needs telling further.

Thought the "maybe he's a vampire" and Evan Peters mining being a mad axe murderer and other things were definitely a dig at Ryan Murphy and AHS, as is (and this is a bit of a stretch) Pietro not being able to tell completely different looking kids apart which is the opposite of AHS where near identical Murphy fkbois are immediately uniquely identified.

Been thinking about the race theories ^^^, does the latest episode turn Vision into a literal Magical Negro?

thought it was kinda sweet that vision was still clearly wearing his wedding ring when he switched to wearing his full super-suit

I think in depictions of simulations based on an individual's psyche you frequently get white blood cell type guardians that are set to correct anomalies etc and outside forces that bring disease. So could see Agnes and possibly others as being in that role.
Really don't know who was what in the pre-existing town. THough seeing a sui generis version of her in the car would suggest she had some existence outside of the Wanda influence.

Did I catch that Monica hinted against about an engineer ringer she's expecting?

I also thought this was a conspicuously unexplained detail -- Monica says her ride inside the Hex is due in an hour and the other characters seem to know what she means but we don't, right? It stuck out.

isn’t this just whoever she has in mind to create this super-protective vehicle that nerd-girl has designed that will “theoretically” work?

Feel like notions of Mephisto as the big bad are a product of a wishful thinking feedback loop, unless someone can point to something(s) onscreen that back up the theory.

Yeah, who they've mentioned two or three times now, which is some foreshadowing! Funny how in the MCU everyone pretty much gets to where they need to be immediately ... except in this case, lol.

Couple other thoughts. One, I almost felt that when Pietro asked Wanda how she was doing all this stuff, he was almost digging for information, like he really wanted to know *how* so that he (whoever he is, really) could do it, too. Or at least better understand how to exploit Wanda's apparently newfound powers. Two, this episode really double downed (quadruple downed?) on winky language that hints at a couple of potential iconic Big Bads. Again, could be easter eggs or red herrings, but there are multiple references to nightmares, and also a couple more Devil things (Pietro calls Wanda's kids "demon spawn" who can "raise hell," or something like that, which could also just be ironically mean digs at the kids). I agree with Tuomas, though, that introducing the (more or less) Devil to the MCU seems like a big lift for this show to do, which is why I was theorizing that maybe this show *won't* ultimately reveal (and certainly not resolve) a Big Bad, and in fact that story will continue directly in Dr. Strange 2 and/or Spider-Man. We'll see!

More thoughts: the SWORD guy in charge is such a jerk, and has been from the start. Could he be a reverse reveal? That is, often times the guy in charge turns out to be a villain. Could this asshole be getting set up as the opposite? There's been lots of talk of radiation going on, and now Monica is clearly ... mutating. Hmmm. (Doubt it would happen, but I saw people hypothesize that maybe this will be a *reverse* House of M, where the twist is she brings all the mutants back, but I think that would be too much.) Also, re: Agnes, we still haven't met her husband, assuming he even exists, right? Oh, and re: someone else controlling things, it's interesting that all the kids showed up in the episode after Vision noted the absence of kids, almost as if someone (Wanda or probably otherwise) realized the oversight and overcompensated.

Still no idea why this is cycling through TV show eras, let alone chronologically.

xpost

The Mephisto thing I think is a combination of several things. One, the manifestation of a need for a Big Bad, let alone one powerful enough to do/explain this. Two, this show coming ahead of Dr. Strange 2 and Spider-man 3, both of which have been rumored to feature Mephisto (who is a notable foe of both). Three, all the winking references in the scripts to hell and devils and stuff. And four, as I understand it, a lot of the weirdness echoing the MO of Mephisto in the comics (people back to life, pretending to be other people, his specific relationship to Wanda.) But I'll leave it to the real nerds to suss out.

I think the biggest reason for the Mephisto speculation is that in the John Byrne West Coast Avengers story where Wanda and Vision's kids were revealed not to be real, rather than something she subconsciously created using her reality-warping powers, Mephisto was revealed to be the ultimate bad guy behind it all. And since this series is quite obviously influenced by it (as well as by Avengers Disassembled and House of M, which are sort of sequels to it), people are expecting the same to happen here.

But I really, really doubt they're gonna do the same twists as in that WCA story, because no one besides John Byrne hates Vision and Wanda enough to pull off that shit.

i just read the two Vision and Scarlet Witch minis which had implied none of that, amazed Byrne hated the characters and Steve Englehart that much. also hope they don't pull off that ridiculousness. also really don't want to see the Devil in the MCU

The guy heading SWORD has been called Striker hasn't he? Or am i hearing that wrong.
I remember taht name as teh guy who was experimenting on logan and introduced teh Adamantine in the X-men films.

Not sure what teh story is on who owns what and if the X-men are about to be introduced to teh rest of the MCU are tehy both concerns owned by Disney now or teh time of teh contracted licensing running out or something?
I see that the new pietro is the guy who was in the X-men films though. Though I think hge was only in the not so good ones wasn't he?

Another easter egg (which could be more than that) is that the movie theatre is playing (along with The Parent Trap) The Incredibles. Which of course can be referenced because Disney owns everything, but also The Incredibles is basically the Fantastic Four, and we've seen the hex/void/zone behave pretty literal minded when it sucks things in, not to mention (as with Monica) potentially giving them powers when they emerge. Of course, while that may give some credence to the reverse switcher-roo of Wanda *creating* mutants, again, that just seems a little too much.

It does also raise the question of how the MCU would handle *too* many superheroes.

Yeah, on top of the revelations about Billy and Tommy, Byrne also killed Vision's personality, so he became a cold, unemotional AI, which also killed the relationship between him and Wanda. It took over 10 years and Kurt Busiek's excellent Avengers run to rebuild the two characters... And then Brian Bendis decided that it was really necessary to revisit the Byrne story, so he killed Vision (again) and had Wanda's character ruined for years (again).

Considering how beloved Wanda and Vision and their love story are among older Avengers fans, it's amazing how willing some writers are to screw it all up for shock value. I guess it would've been sorta palatable if Byrne and Bendis got actual good stories out of it, but they didn't.

(xpost to Nhex)

The Incredibles

Discussion this week on bits of the internet about the 'Frozone gets back in the game' scene from The Incredibles which appears to have been directly referenced in the post-credits scene of Infinity War.

https://screenrant.com/infinity-war-incredibles-samuel-l-jackson-connection-video/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

the racial equality retconning nicely explained - though indirectly - in the conversation pietro has with wanda about how people in her world have better hair etc - that she has basically constructed this world as she wishes it to be

also just want to say how much i agree about bettany’s resemblance to rik mayall when he does his goofy grin

and also think it needs to be noted for the record how sensational bettany looks in high-waisted trousers

It won't be Mephisto because it makes no sense for it to be Mephisto, and the idea that anyone seriously thinks it is makes me worry about the Dan Brown-isation of the world. The MCU has already shown that their priority is telling stories that make sense rather than drag in continuity from the comics - even when they have the Red Skull and the Cosmic Cube, they rewrote the Winter Soldier to make it make sense in accordance with what they'd already shown on screen.

It's also not going to be Agnes - I genuinely have no idea what's wrong with some of you.

Bettany's been great throughout, I really liked how well Evan Peters settled into the wayward uncle role. I was struck by the idea that he'd make a good Jim Carrey - sure there's a "Jim Carrey during the making of The Man in the Moon" germ rattling around somewhere in Charlie Kaufman's head.

The theory of Agnes is that she had no Westview counterpart, that they didn't identify the name of a civilian "playing" her.

xxpost Well at least you've chosen a reasonable metric by which to assess the soundness of others' minds.

Besides, the MCU architects intentionally feed the speculative nature of fans. They want people to jump to conclusions based on the source material if only to pull the rug out from under them by going in some completely different direction with the filmed material.

To that end, tossing in a character whose name is a portmanteau of a character with strong ties to Wanda in the comics and then having that character (a witch in the comics) dressed up like a witch while everyone else is Halloweening about in goofball iterations of their comic outfits may in fact suggest that hints of Agnes's involvement is a total red herring. It's too on the nose.

Xxp yeah Pietro was doing straight up Ace Ventura ham that I appreciated.

Imma just say it outright since I'm the only one with the courage to state the obvious: the big bad here is clearly Mojo.

And mutants will be introduced to the MCU when the X-Babies show up at season's end.

I was struck by the idea that he'd make a good Jim Carrey - sure there's a "Jim Carrey during the making of The Man in the Moon" germ rattling around somewhere in Charlie Kaufman's head.

can we please avoid thought-manifesting this sort of garbage into existence

also it's a bit weird that all the other frozen people at the end of Westview couldn't move or speak, and Agnes could outright talk

I wanted to know why Vision has only done his brain finger trick twice, once to the guy in the office and once to Agnes.

i would imagine he realizes it increases the individuals' pain when he does that, making them more upset, and that he's not trying to do that.

he’s just coming to grips with his truman-show existence and doesn’t really want to believe it.. running around brain-juicing everyone into existential dread would be kinda weird no??

Agtee

Agtee

AGREE fuckdamnit

I want to know more about what he's doing when he does that. In contrast to the comics, where powers are fluid and wind up all over the map as various creative teams handle a given character, the MCU has been pretty good about defining its various players' power sets and the limitations thereof (see the multiple references to Wanda never before having demonstrated these particular abilities). So since Vision has never had any 'wake people from their mystical trance powers' before, the suggestion seems to be that his powers as we already understand them are able to disrupt whatever force is acting on the town. Which may in itself be a clue as to the nature of that force (perhaps something technological?).

xpost Agree too! On the other hand, he's trying to figure things out, and that woman he passed going through the motions while a tear ran down her face seemed pretty unhappy without his help.

xpost Not a bad theory, given the apparent levels of radiation.

guys the red light on the toaster is clearly the hibernating soul of Count Zorbon - if this does not pay off i can only assume it’s because of dumb internecine studio politics and frankly i am already preemptively disgusted

Besides, the MCU architects intentionally feed the speculative nature of fans. They want people to jump to conclusions based on the source material if only to pull the rug out from under them by going in some completely different direction with the filmed material.

Sure, but I feel like there's a clear line between "stuff we put in as Easter Eggs for the fans" (The Incredibles / Parent Trap, Ag<atha Hark>ness, Kick-Ass) and actual balls that they have in the air (Hayward's plans, Monica's friend, Monica Rambeau, possibly even Jimmy's witness?)

It seems likely that Agnes or Dottie will the witness at this point
"...in the town you grew up in?"

oh wait, that wouldn't work. Jimmy would've seen them on the broadcast.

They finally clear everything up and the witness is Ralph, played by Stan Lee.

The theory of Agnes is that she had no Westview counterpart, that they didn't identify the name of a civilian "playing" her.

In this episode she was finally included in the sitcom credits as "Agnes". All the other people in the credits (Vision, Wanda, Pietro, Tommy, Billy) are essentially playing a fictional version of themselves; there's no actor name as you would have in normal TV series credits, as it's Wanda playing Wanda. So it would seem she has no other name/identity outside the simulation, she really is Agnes. Also, when Vision (supposedly) wakes her up from the simulation, he keeps calling her Agnes and she doesn't tell him her real non-simulation name, like Vision's co-workers in the previous episode did.

I do agree that Agnes is a red herring, but only in the sense that she's not Agatha Harkness, nor in anyway related to Mephisto, but she is somehow tied to what happened with Wanda and how she ended up controlling the simulation. Like I said upthread, the MCU has been pretty good at teasing comic existing book stories, and making people think they're adapting them wholesale, but the changing the plot in significant ways so it's still fresh. Like when the second Cap movie was called Winter Soldier and introduced the eponymous character early on, so everyone thought they're gonna adapt the comic book plotline where he first appeared, but then the main plot was actually something else and not from any comic. Or when Civil War gave us Zemo as the antagonist, but the character only had the same name as his comic book counterpart, and his background and motivations turned out to be almost opposite from Baron Zemo.

Meantime, The Youth have spoken.

My niece looooooves Wandavision and insisted on rewatching the Halloween episode today. Now her new bit is pretending she’s in the same fugue state as the people under the spell and just keeps repeating her actions in a loop pic.twitter.com/K1FC7KdUuY

— Laura Hudson (@laura_hudson) February 13, 2021