where's the roland barthes emoji when you need it
― Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 17 March 2021 14:31 (three years ago) link
hitler did try to destroy modernism
― treeship., Wednesday, 17 March 2021 14:31 (three years ago) link
Sure, but to add to what Daniel said, if you're deliberately oblivious to the more disturbing facets of your aesthetic community, I will deem you at least somewhat suspicious.
― Stefan Twerkelle (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 17 March 2021 14:35 (three years ago) link
trad aesthetics were part of nazism. but that doesn't mean all trad aesthetics are nazi.
i understand why people make the comparison between this stuff -- which *is* connected with a longing for "traditional" ways of life -- and fascism. but it's a step too far, using a firehose instead of scalpel.
― treeship., Wednesday, 17 March 2021 14:36 (three years ago) link
https://i.imgur.com/bomet5e.gif
― Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 17 March 2021 14:41 (three years ago) link
what are some "trad" aesthetics that are non-fascist? imo they are all nostalgic false narratives, what else are "traditional" ways of life other than a way of telling a romantic story that smooths out the oppression, racism, immiseration and feudalism that accompanied this way of life.
― superdeep borehole (harbl), Wednesday, 17 March 2021 14:41 (three years ago) link
why did i ask idk
what traditional way of life does treeship long for
― superdeep borehole (harbl), Wednesday, 17 March 2021 14:42 (three years ago) link
The bad NS had a piece a free years back about how this kind of thing had happened with architecture accounts on twitter. Might be useful for some people needing a bit more context to what some of us are saying.
― Scamp Granada (gyac), Wednesday, 17 March 2021 14:43 (three years ago) link
is "fascist" a synonym for "reactionary" or "conservative"?
― treeship., Wednesday, 17 March 2021 14:43 (three years ago) link
i'm not endorsing cottagecore or trad aesthetics or conservatism or being reactionary
oh yeah, see also "western civilization" lies that the right wing tells
― superdeep borehole (harbl), Wednesday, 17 March 2021 14:44 (three years ago) link
Trad aesthetics flow from norms that were created to uphold trad values. Adopting them without queering or flexing or re-imagining them is being led down the garden path imo.
― Ima Gardener (in orbit), Wednesday, 17 March 2021 14:46 (three years ago) link
I mean, it really depends on your culture and where you are. I realize "trad" on the internet is probably coded very white (and honestly, this is all deeply unfamiliar to me because for all the time I spend on ilx I'm not very internet-connected in general), but I just spent a decade in Alaska, where when you talk about traditional ways of life you are generally talking about Alaska Native culture and rural subsistence living.
― Lily Dale, Wednesday, 17 March 2021 14:47 (three years ago) link
sorry Lily i can’t hear you i’m busy affixing these vintage farm implements to my wall - don’t even know what they do, really
― Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 17 March 2021 14:48 (three years ago) link
I basically have no personal conception of an aesthetic community
Neither do I, strictly speaking, but I am aware that pagan black metal fandom, for example, is not something that occurs in a vacuum, as it loosely ties me to a community of folks with whom I have a great deal in common (we're into it for chiefly, yes, aesthetic reasons) and others who are very much unlike me, even unsettlingly so (i.e. actual ecofascists). You might retort that this concern holds true for all fandoms, and you'd be right, but I'd be lying if I said that the community of pagan black metal fans isn't generally likelier to espouse, say, remigrationist views that run counter to my very existence.
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 17 March 2021 14:50 (three years ago) link
Yes Lily absolutely agree w that. I specifically said upthread that the critique of "back to the land-ism" excludes indigenous ppl who were displaced/massacred by white resettlement, whose ACTUAL practices are then adopted as roleplay in a gross erasure.
― Ima Gardener (in orbit), Wednesday, 17 March 2021 14:52 (three years ago) link
xpost I guess that's part of why I've historically tended to eschew fandoms in favor of appreciating things in my own little lonely bubble. But I recognize that I'm probably an outlier in that regard.
― Stefan Twerkelle (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 17 March 2021 14:53 (three years ago) link
I think we're quibbling about semantics here. I am exactly like you, but to me that kind of relationship with art also intersects with looser conceptions of 'fandom' and 'community' (be it, to quote Bataille, 'the community of those who have no community'). Merely liking something draws you outside; it is enough to burst said lonely bubble imo.
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 17 March 2021 14:56 (three years ago) link
leave me alone with my thomas kinkade paintings
― superdeep borehole (harbl), Wednesday, 17 March 2021 14:58 (three years ago) link
In, say, the uk or ireland its possible for it to be a fairly legit trad way of life with continuous ties- thinking the islands and the west fairly specifically- a lifestyle that generations of people were forced into!
but also a bit that rich scions of mumford wealth roleplay at also in order to lecture everyone about how easy it is and how much better life would be if we all owned a cotswold listed building and got Trevor with a masters in agricultural science to do all the work for us on minimum wage
Shades of shades depending on the historical context for me anyway
nb where cores or aesthetics or fandoms come into it idk im a simple man of the islands me
― Marry and Neghim (darraghmac), Wednesday, 17 March 2021 14:59 (three years ago) link
I've historically tended to eschew fandoms in favor of appreciating things in my own little lonely bubble. But I recognize that I'm probably an outlier in that regard.
you're a prolific poster on a messageboard that discusses politics and pop culture so i'd say this is.... incorrect
― Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 17 March 2021 15:01 (three years ago) link
Pfft, implying this place is endowed with even a modicum of reality.
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 17 March 2021 15:04 (three years ago) link
lol, touché. To the extent that ILX counts as an aesthetic community, this would be my sole exception.
― Stefan Twerkelle (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 17 March 2021 15:05 (three years ago) link
See deems the vibe in our context is less what you’re talking about and more na Sasanaigh in this infamous article, specifically
When my wife Nona and I first came here, we said west Cork is like England in the Fifties. We felt so at home here. It felt like old home, going back in time, to old England.
― Scamp Granada (gyac), Wednesday, 17 March 2021 15:05 (three years ago) link
xpost Generally feeling pretty okay about the ethos of my fellow aesthetes in that regard, though.
― Stefan Twerkelle (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 17 March 2021 15:06 (three years ago) link
How do you feel about their logos and pathos, though?
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 17 March 2021 15:07 (three years ago) link
Honestly when ppl start on "the good old days" in any capacity I usually have to step out of the room on a pretext. They never mean the actual historical material conditions.
― Ima Gardener (in orbit), Wednesday, 17 March 2021 15:07 (three years ago) link
Yeah, I would think that ppl that are a part of the fairly legit trad way of life with continuous ties don't really spend much time celebrating it as an ~~internet aesthetic~~. At least the ones I know don't, they're online ofc and have instagram and etc. but don't tend to use it as a celebration of that.
― Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 17 March 2021 15:08 (three years ago) link
Tbf rose-tinted left-wing nostalgia is also a thing.
xp
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 17 March 2021 15:09 (three years ago) link
xp absolutely nailed on the people in that piece above voted Tory for their own selfish reasons, and didn’t like the results of their actions so it’s time to move back in time to somewhere they don’t have to think about any of that 🙃
― Scamp Granada (gyac), Wednesday, 17 March 2021 15:09 (three years ago) link
what are some "trad" aesthetics that are non-fascist?
I think centering the idea of "neighborliness" e.g.
https://bedstuystrong.com/
or, similarly, fetishizing immigrant mutual aid societies or etc. is one version of this I've seen
xp this agrees with what pom said
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Wednesday, 17 March 2021 15:11 (three years ago) link
When communities are well-knit and caring and working properly, they do mutual aid without calling it anything at all. I think about this a lot. Yes.
― Ima Gardener (in orbit), Wednesday, 17 March 2021 15:13 (three years ago) link
Yeah i hear that gyac- in specific contexts the cosplay of cottageplay feeds into a hundred things and patterns that id have thoughts on- definitely. West cork a fine example!
But also the underlying assumption on ilx isnt about the cottage lifestyles or w/e its maybe more like the attn or study or time ppl might presume everyone others would have to delve into semiotics around the culture and the language and angle that we each of us "should" have or the agreed line on these things? Thats a culture in itself imo
― Marry and Neghim (darraghmac), Wednesday, 17 March 2021 15:15 (three years ago) link
Tbh American settlers would never have survived without collective care/mutual aid/barn raisings/etc because mostly they were mostly not very good at farming and they were NOT highly trained frontier survivalists by and large. There's just a lot to be unpacked about this whole thing.
― Ima Gardener (in orbit), Wednesday, 17 March 2021 15:16 (three years ago) link
xp to Darragh--people posting to this thread pretending they aren't allowed to like cottages anymore certainly have time to read up.
― Ima Gardener (in orbit), Wednesday, 17 March 2021 15:17 (three years ago) link
Lol yes look im staving away from those takes too
― Marry and Neghim (darraghmac), Wednesday, 17 March 2021 15:17 (three years ago) link
;)
― Ima Gardener (in orbit), Wednesday, 17 March 2021 15:18 (three years ago) link
I'm also intrigued by the metonymic emphasis on 'cottage'.
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 17 March 2021 15:20 (three years ago) link
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it has an, um, broader semantic value in British English…
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 17 March 2021 15:21 (three years ago) link
hee ive not been saying im behaving
― Marry and Neghim (darraghmac), Wednesday, 17 March 2021 15:23 (three years ago) link
Apologies for the extent to which I have contributed to facile 'not all cottages' discourse, I have entered my busy season @ work and am not able to contribute my usually super-high level of nuance and erudition to this convo at the mo
― Stefan Twerkelle (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 17 March 2021 15:24 (three years ago) link
Again, my favorite anarchist farmer has a whole collection of twitter threads about watching the show "Doomsday Preppers" and pointing out the multiple omissions and idiocies that will certainly get ppl killed in an actual apocalypse. Cottagecore is the "wouldn't it be nice to stay at home and make soup and embrace this constructed role of femininity" and violent preppers are the "wouldn't it be nice to shoot people with impunity to embrace my constructed masculinity" and both are ill founded and fundamentally racist & patriarchal at least in the context of a settler cultural history. No reflection on people who are the actual indigenous people of their region, ofc.
― Ima Gardener (in orbit), Wednesday, 17 March 2021 15:25 (three years ago) link
#notallsoups obv
Holy shit you did not just reference the soup. Gyaaaaaccc
― Marry and Neghim (darraghmac), Wednesday, 17 March 2021 15:26 (three years ago) link
#soupcore
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 17 March 2021 15:26 (three years ago) link
I want to move to the equivalent of the hamptons and cosplay as an idle rich tbph
lol chonaic méééé xp
― Scamp Granada (gyac), Wednesday, 17 March 2021 15:27 (three years ago) link
america, the great melting soup
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 17 March 2021 15:29 (three years ago) link