Elon Musk

the big car companies have spent a century refining the process of manufacturing motor vehicles. they are familiar with failures and what recalls cost. tesla is like oops, sorry, let's roll out the latest nightly beta, that'll probably fix it

if a car explodes but nobody is driving it, was it really a car

the problem with the idea that tesla popularized electric vehicles is that a. it was all built on government subsidies without which tesla would not exist, literally the popularization of electric vehicles is a government program that elon musk was just a willing partisipant in, and more importantly b. electric vehicles just arent popular, any of the big automakers would happily sell them if people were buying, theyve certainly put a lot of time and effort into developing and marketing them and theyve made some decent cars but so far they are not in high demand, even with the government trying to push them, one would assume that will change some day but as of now in the usa at least electrics are not in high demand

the back of the envelope math people are doing to justify teslas insane stock price that assumes domination of a huge market of which electric cars are just part is especially weird considering in the countries where electric vehicles are more popular people are just buying the same volkswagens and toyotas they always have, there doesnt seem to be any sort of big first mover advantage there

brand loyalty is more and more a thing of the past but it still exists in the auto industry

The automotive industry and oil industry just failed to move on quickly enough to ensure... human survival. It's not Musk's accomplishment, it's a societal massive failure.

I agree their stock price is silly but even with subsidies, people were arguing that nobody was going to buy EVs ... then it was that Tesla wouldn't be able to scale manufacturing to meet preorders ... now it's "well 2% of the market is tiny" which is fair, but ... I mean, I detest Elon Musk, but I just don't get it. Selling electric cars is a good thing! Nobody else was making it a priority! They're an incredibly irresponsible company but it's not a scam and I don't understand the hate.

I think people are tired of cars.

https://i.imgur.com/GFOrXUI.png

https://i.imgur.com/yXSfm5m.png

https://i.imgur.com/N9NfQSe.png

being in 6th place in norway is pretty amazing if they could have nearly that success in rich countries world wide it would be huge, but it prob still wouldn't justify their stock price lol, then if we look at sweden theyre not even on the list, not sure whats going with there

https://i.imgur.com/kuGZtOn.png

then theres the usa, being up there with bmw and benz isnt nothing but its also not everything

Selling electric cars is a good thing! Nobody else was making it a priority! They're an incredibly irresponsible company but it's not a scam and I don't understand the hate.

― lukas, Friday, April 16, 2021 11:29 PM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

not sure if any of these statements are true tbh

When I envision an utopian future, there is no cars.

However bad you think the future is going to be, it'll be worse without electric cars, cuz we're definitely not going to restructure society around mass transit in my lifetime.

welp then theres prob no point in doing electric cars

why?

if you dont think doing the major surgeries needed to forestall catastrophe are possible then theres really no point in applying the bandaids like electric cars

transportation, mostly cars and trucks, is the single greatest source of greenhouse gases? am I missing something????

electric cars produce greenhouse gasses, i mean theyre better than fuel burning cars but its marginal, where public transpo is orders of magnitudes better

and just on a philosophical level the sort of fatalist incrementalism of contemporary liberalism where building public transportation, something that has been done before and in fact continues to be done, is impossible but electric cars are going to save us is well its just... uhh not great

eh even with the electricity generation and the battery manufacturing, it's a 2-3x reduction. and as we decarbonize electricity generation that number will get better and better.

i'll be overjoyed to be proven wrong here, but we don't just have to build public transportation, we have to build housing stock in saner places where transit makes sense ... we can't even build houses to solve homelessness. i'm not saying we'll get nothing done here, but thinking electric vehicles don't have an important role to play in this transition is ... it's bad, lagoon. bad.

i generally agree. electric cars are a good thing. they're not the answer, but nothing is. do it all.

you are of course misrepresenting what i said because youre mad but something to think about cars now are well more than 2x3 times less polluting than they were 30 years ago and yet here we are xp

was thinking the other day about how every person i know irl who ever brings up elon musk thinks he rules and is explicitly going to save humanity and they love him very much which i of course think is insane and bad but what can you do

i will happily say definitively electric are not a good thing, they are quite obviously a less bad thing, and obvs were never going to get rid of cars totally so yeah they should be electric cars and in fact i feel quite confident the world is moving in that direction

A part of the hate is that you can't on one hand claim to be saving the world with electric cars and on the other lobby against mass public transit when obviously the latter is key in fighting climate change. In a better world this is not a zero sum game and both will coexist but Elon Musk seems to insist that it can't (what else is that ridiculous tunnel?) and couch that rhetoric with heavy classism.

Also I have no idea who the CEO of Honda or VW are but Elon Musk I do and he is jerk and that can't help the branding.

and "do it all" is good if all of the things includes big transformative projects, but if its just cover for thinking that a grab bag of corporate friendly incremental solutions is going to forestall environmental catastrophe maybe its better to not do it all

xpost

also promoting bitcoin which will cancel out any possible gains from evs

^ in months prob

mining the metal to make a new car still pollutes more than the car will do over the rest of its life afaik

The automotive industry and oil industry just failed to move on quickly enough to ensure... human survival.

damn, and they tried so hard to do so :(

i know the US is currently the major carbon emitter here, but this discussion ignores that it doesn't have most of the cars, and there are a bunch of countries culturally/economically/geographically well suited to transit, and pushing electrification of private vehicles in those countries is climate arson.

electrification of private vehicles not just incrementalism, it's a local minimum that will trap us (like a lot of mainstream liberal policies in the US, btw.)

i mean, in the next 10-20 years we'll start to see mass population migration in the US, so I guess we've got a chance to resettle people into dense urban environments.

people already want to live those places thats why theyre so expensive we just need to build more

electrification of private vehicles not just incrementalism, it's a local minimum that will trap us (like a lot of mainstream liberal policies in the US, btw.)

― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Saturday, April 17, 2021 12:20 AM (six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

year cars really are just a disaster on so many levels

people already want to live those places thats why theyre so expensive we just need to build more

I do see some movement in my state to make that happen. I wish it would happen faster. I'm pitching in where I can in my city, although as my debating style here indicates I'm probably more of a liability in public forums. I dunno, I'm pessimistic.

history is full of way more lost causes that won out keep giving em hell

if your state is california then i think you are right to be pessimistic about changes in land use. it's just not in anyone important's short term financial interest.

still, i do see a lot of teslas here in america's least affordable city!

If Elon Musk gets lost in space will TESLA still go on??

Or is it a pharaoh company that depends on a magical leader

‘No one was driving the car’: 2 men dead after fiery Tesla crash in Spring, officials say

Herman said authorities believe no one else was in the car and that it burst into flames immediately. He said it he believes it wasn’t being driven by a human.

Harris County Constable Precinct 4 deputies said the vehicle was traveling at a high speed when it failed to negotiate a cul-de-sac turn, ran off the road and hit the tree.

KPRC 2 reporter Deven Clarke spoke to one man’s brother-in-law who said he was taking the car out for a spin with his best friend, so there were just two in the vehicle.

The owner, he said, backed out of the driveway, and then may have hopped in the back seat only to crash a few hundred yards down the road. He said the owner was found in the back seat upright.

The brother-in-law of one of the victims said relatives watched the car burn for four hours as authorities tried to tap out the flames.

Authorities said they used 32,000 gallons of water to extinguish the flames because the vehicle’s batteries kept reigniting. At one point, Herman said, deputies had to call Tesla to ask them how to put out the fire in the battery.

elon stays winning

deputies had to call Tesla to ask them how to put out the fire in the battery.

Operators are standing by.

we didn't start the fire. It's been always burnin since the teslas aren't turnin.

"I talked to my supervisor and he says you guys are pedophiles"

the car's on fire, and there's no driver at the wheel

The brother-in-law of one of the victims said relatives watched the car burn for four hours as authorities tried to tap out the flames.

they watched their relatives burn to death? eesh

if Elon gets stoned today, 60% chance he tweets about how Teslas are great value because they save you the cost of a crematory

deputies had to call Tesla to ask them how to put out the fire in the battery.

The advice is “you don’t.” Look at the firefighting section in the manual:

https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/downloads/2016_Model_S_Emergency_Response_Guide_en.pdf

idgi?

FIREFIGHTING

USE WATER TO FIGHT A HIGH VOLTAGE BATTERY FIRE. If the battery catches fire, is exposed to high heat, or is generating heat orgases, use large amounts of water to cool the battery. It can take approximately 3,000 gallons (11,356 liters) of water, applied directly to the battery, to fully extinguish and cool down a battery fire; always establish or request an additional water supply. If water is not immediately available, use dry chemicals, CO2, foam, or another typical fire-extinguishing agent to fight the fire until water is available.Apply water directly to the battery. If safety permits, lift or tilt the vehicle for more direct access to the battery. Apply water inside the battery ONLY if a natural opening (such as a vent or opening from a collision) already exists. Do not open the battery for the purpose of cooling it.

Extinguish small fires that do not involve the high voltage battery using typical vehicle firefighting procedures

Authorities said they used 32,000 gallons of water to extinguish the flames because the vehicle’s batteries kept reigniting.

seems like it wouldnt be great if one of these caught fire inside some sort of structure

three car fires = Armageddon for the globe's water supply

Honestly shocked that li-ion fires haven't already caused devastating problems. But now we have huge concentrations of them moving around at high speed.